FWR split continued

[RebeccaMumsnet]

We have decided to start a new thread about this as the other thread was near capacity and taking a while to load.

Here is Justine's post from earlier on

We can give a Radical Feminism topic a go if that's what people want and see if it works. Obviously we need to be crystal clear that no one is obliged to post in one particular place and no one should feel excluded from any topic but we could test it out, and see if it helps resolve tensions. We'll do that in the next few days.

There are a couple of other things to think about as well.

First, those who come onto FWR to derail and inflame. We acknowledge that we have been too slow in the past to spot these posters for what they were. We're sorry about that and hope we're a lot quicker at dealing with them now. We're all for opinions but we do draw the line at posters whose only obvious intent is to goad.

And secondly, this idea that FWR can be an unwelcoming place to those who aren't following the 'party line'. Judging by posts on recent threads and by our inbox this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters and obviously that's not a healthy situation. Mumsnet is a place for discussion and for diverse opinion and it's the exchange of ideas and tolerance of differing opinions that makes it the board it is.

We do hope threads like this help to clear the air a bit and remind everyone that, whatever the differences of opinion, the FWR board will only ever be the stimulating, thought-provoking, enriching place we'd all like it to be if people feel that they can express themselves without being jumped on.

Please do continue to let us know your thoughts.

Oh please, please, please can't we just have Proper Feminists and Improper Feminists?

Bit awkward, eh, MNHQ?

I think this is a terrible idea, completely wrong-headed.

• it is wrong to conflate a certain belief-set with a certain style of discourse, and balkanise the board accordingly

• the problematisation of certain styles of discourse hasn't been properly analysed.

I am (theoretically) a radical feminist and have never been rude to anyone (I hope) (if so, sorry)

this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters

Well done MNHQ.

No. Just... No...

We do NOT want a "Radical Feminism" topic. We get enough troll attacks as it is. Can we refrain from painting rad fems with neon targets, please?

Section's there. Is it just going to be boycotted ?

Maybe have a sub board? So turn the paddling pool thread in to a separate board, where all comers can learn the basics, discuss different ideas etc. You could have a disclaimer along the lines of 'This board is for people new to the ideas of feminism who want to learn more'. Or summink. Then if someone pops up on a more involved thread with questions, they can be politely directed to the sub board. I know I'd appreciate that. Because like it or not FWR scares the shit out of a lot of MNers. It's robust reputation goes before it.

It's great that the unhealthy situation on the board has been acknowledged.

@FrothyDragon

No. Just... No...

We do NOT want a "Radical Feminism" topic. We get enough troll attacks as it is. Can we refrain from painting rad fems with neon targets, please?

If we do it, it doesn't have to be called Radical Feminism and it could be in OTBT as someone suggested on the other thread. But if folks have other solutions to the FWR board issues, which, let's be fair, have been around for a while please do suggest them.

Someone also suggested temporary bans for intolerance of other opinion... would that be a solution? Is there actually a solution within one board? We really don't know and would love to hear what you think but going along as we have isn't really working for lots of Mumsnetters.

Thanks for the new section, MNHQ. Can safely say we've been thrown to the wolves.

Thanks.

Wow, thanks for a section that further segregates feminists.

I am eternally grateful.

*Waits for a certain MRA to show up and post his rape myths. But remember, it's just opinion!

Too late, you've already done it, Justine.

We said "call it anything BUT Radical Feminism". And what do you do?

As for the intolerance of other opinion; seeing as that's what you expect from the rad fems these days; you seem quick to label us intolerant; most of the rad fems would end up on permanent temporary bans.

"Intolerance of other opinion"... can go both ways, and I can see it being applied every time we refuse to pander to rape myths, victim blaming etc.

Um. Of all the sub-boards you could have thought up, that is the worst.

Women have been targeted on and offline because of the Radical Feminist label. No-one ever got plastered across Facebook with insulting, dehumanising comments because they are New To Feminism.

I'm genuinely shocked that you've chosen to sub-board as you have.

Could I request that the voices of the many lurkers who have come out to say that they're not intimidated by and nor feel excluded by the debates on the FWR board also be taken into account? There has been a line of argument that states that the rad-fem posters deter engagement by 'average' posters. I'm not the only non-rad-fem Mrs Average who has said they don't feel this way and actually appreciate the uncompromising contributors. I'm uncomfortable with the idea that something that is the opinion of some should be regarded as fact.

@FrothyDragon

Thanks for the new section, MNHQ. Can safely say we've been thrown to the wolves.

Thanks.

We can change the name / take it out of search/ or even get rid. We are merely trying something - the last thing we want, we can assure you, is to attract trolls.

If we keep it - should it be out of search/ active convs like otbt? if not what names would work better. or would you rather just not have it but everyone accept that a wider set of opinion is tolerated on the FWR board? Really we are open to suggestions...

I think wicketys idea about leaving the main board as it is and having another section more polite debate might work?

We need to accept that other people have opinions. We may not like them, they may be offensive but we're not so delicate that we can't call people out on them.

For me, it's not about the rape myths. It's about not being able to discuss porn and other contentious subjects without being told you're pro-porn and thus anti-feminist.

I'm with Hester. Broadly I'm not a radical feminist, though we share plenty of ground. But I've always said that it is the mix of feminist voices on FWR that makes it one of the strongest and most interesting feminist places on the internet.

Does anyone mind if I turn this into a play?

@Hullygully

Does anyone mind if I turn this into a play?

What would you call it, though?

Yellow. People don't get told they're pro-porn for asking to discuss porn. We've had enough discussions of it.

They get told they're coming across pro-porn when they defend porn. Notable that the link you sent me re this discussion was over a year old, btw...

was just thinking its not a great thread for mn pr :(

The Rad Fems scare me and keep me off the FWR board. I admit it. I lurk there sometimes but feel like my learning is compromised by all the bun fights that I don't have the strength to read through.

I think we should have a "Feminism for Dummies" board or "Newbie Feminism" or "Fem Lite" or whatever you want to call it - and the FWR board can stay as it stands. The "Newbie" thread could as Chicken said up there have a disclaimer at the top This board is for people new to the ideas of feminism who want to learn more, please go to FWR for more advanced and in-depth discussion

MNHQ my suggestion is that you remove / rename the new Rad Fem board because I think a lot of the regular posters on FWR are upset and offended by it and I know that was not your intention.

Justine, I find that very offensive. If you want to call it "more robust discourse feminist section (caution: you might be told you are wrong") then that would be one thing. But suggesting that radical feminists (or any people who have any set of beliefs) have to be fenced off because they are intrinsically savages is so muddle-headed (see my earlier post, 17:18).
I'm personally offended by this new section.