(TW SA) New support thread …

[PinkPoetAgain1]

Another thread full, still learning that things are not normal as I thought they were .

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5522581-tw-sa-new-therapist-new-thread

thank you everyone for being so patient and supportive ❤️

I think it's important to highlight here that even if sex addiction was a thing, which I don't think it is, what he does to you is not sex because it's coercive and it's not based on real consent. So he's really just saying he's addicted to control and pushing your boundaries and I think THAT is true. In the sense that this man is so deeply dysfunctional that nothing will change. Even if he wanted to change, truly wanted to change, no mental health professional would ever suggest it should be attempted while you're with him.

I truly understand why you would try to hold onto hope that he might suddenly wake up and change. I am a mental health professional and as such I always try to work with people no matter what they present with. But you're not his therapist, so you should absolutely not have that attitude and hope because to you, as his wife, it is harmful. I understand why you would suggest to him therapy, but it is really not clear to me that therapy could do anything here. Being an abuser and rapist is not a mental health condition. If he told me what he did to you I would have to report it. It's entirely possible that he has some personality traits that could fall under the umbrella of 'mental health'. But I'll be honest with you, men like your husband we usually only ever see for therapy in prison settings as part of their treatment order. Although we try, the probability of someone like your husband, at his age, getting to a point where he can be in a healthy romantic relationship is so close to zero that really, our aim is future harm reduction. People who commit such violent to the person boundary violations and crimes will usually fall somewhere along the antisocial personality disorder spectrum. So we try and get them to understand that for their own interests, they must act in ways that are less destructive because the consequences of their actions are not enjoyable to them. But your husband's actions have had no consequences so far, he has no incentive to stop.

I don't think you should reason with him, try to convince him, be truthful with him at this stage. I think you're in a lot of danger, and trying to assert yourself might have seriously risky outcomes. Men like him can sense when someone is pulling away, even if it's only psychological pulling away. You've been under his control for so long he knows exactly when something feels different. This is why it's so important you talk to DA services, they can help plan.

You have come so far, and I know you will keep finding the way back to yourself. The process of leaving him is probably going to be one of the hardest things you ever do. But now you also have the voices of other women to bolster you: so, so many women who left similar situations, who struggled in the same ways, who can absolutely promise you that when it's done, your life will feel so much easier.

I haven’t commented before Poet but I have read all of your other threads.

I just felt the need to comment about him saying he thinks he may be a sex addict. He isn’t. He used a BOOK to learn the techniques to do all of this remember. And he found a young, impressionable and traumatised teenager to practice all of the techniques on. Probably because it didn’t work on older more emotionally mature women like his ex. He has groomed you and convinced you that this is all normal. Now that you are more mature yourself you are seeing through his bullshit. With the help of these threads.

Like everyone else I find the idea of him masturbating over you constantly utterly disgusting and abhorrent. You may as well be a blow up doll. There is zero respect there for you as a woman, a human being and the mother of his children.

OP you asked to be left alone for one week. That's all. It's not much to ask is it.

Just one week without any groping, pressure or sex.

So he assaulted you.

Why did you have your last thread deleted?

Yes I was wondering about the thread too. It would’ve been good to have it as evidence, a diary and a reference point for Poet so I’m not sure why it was deleted.

I've still got the timeline with dates on as I posted it into the thread. If needs be I can put it back on, but I'm aware that poet is probably not wanting to make this to identifiable to her abuser so might be why she asked for it to be deleted.

I'm assuming Mumsnet have a copy somewhere in case it's needed to help her with any police action in the future as it's her contemporaneous account with times and dates. Perhaps @mnhq can confirm that they keep these things squirreled away anywhere in case they are needed?

Ps: have I tagged mnhq correctly?

No, that isn’t a real tag. Report your post and use the ‘other’ to ask.

Poet, I know it’s very unlikely you will ever report him to the police (and it’s your choice, Lord knows you have precious few free choices in your life), but this might be helpful to understand anyway:

When an abuser had committed dozens, possibly even hundreds of offences over many years, they will be charged with a representative sample. Essentially the worst and/or most memorable to the victim example of each offence he has committed.

In your case, he’d likely be charged with a count of rape while your were pregnant. He’d be charged with a count of rape when you said no and he carried on anyway - you’ve relayed an occasion like this on these threads recently, and it would be used as an example of having done that many times. He’d likely be charged with a count of rape for the times you told him you didn’t want anal sex and he did that anyway. He’d be charged with a count of sexual assault for all the times he’s groped you against your will while masturbating.

And he’d be charged with a count of sexual assault by penetration for what he did to you last night. Because it’s very serious, and it’s an example of what he’s done to you many times. It’s not unserious just because he didn’t rape you.

I really hate to ask, and you don’t have to answer, but does he ever penetrate you orally when you’ve said no? That’s rape too, in law. It occurs to me that you might not realise that’s wrong.

@DownThePubWithStevieNicks shes said before that he initiates oral sex on her without her consent.

It’s partly why I was always so keen for Poet to go down the Clare’s law route, I think there will be things on there, just hopeful she’d meet a nice specially trained officer that would help her (and lock him up!)

Big hugs Poet, I know the weekends are hard.

Ah ok, been on all the threads but must have missed that.

I think police involvement will be a step Poet never feels able to take, but I hope by laying out how many offences he commits it helps a little bit on her journey to breaking away.

I dont think she will report him, well certainly not in the immediate future, but I think it could be powerful to know that she COULD report him, and to also, once safely away, use as leverage if he ever starts giving her trouble.

Some of these men are only ever afraid of the police, and for what happens to sex offenders in prison. Its a loss of control and a loss of face. They are bullies who operate in silence. Many choose to slink away rather than risk it all blowing up in their faces.

I really hope you’re OK poet and he didn’t assault you again last night. Usually he wouldn’t at this stage of the cycle as you’re nearing a therapy day and he wants to give you some hope and lessen the chance of you telling your therapist how bad it is, but I’m conscious he’s escalating so that may change x

Thinking of you @PinkPoetAgain1 hope you’re okay.

Thanks , I’m ok ❤️
not great but not terrible
another night of ‘upholding’ the ban, for what I don’t know. He sorted himself out behind me while I was sleeping , I woke up but he didn’t know. I’m kind of pleased he did though as the tension building was getting unbearable.

Therapy again tomorrow
thank you for checking in, I know im just repeating more and more of the same and I’m boring myself at this point !
but I appreciate it all the same x

I think it’s been worth it just to break the pattern by upholding your boundary for longer than 2 days. Not in making changes, but in enabling you to see a bit more what is wrong here. I’m not sure if you’ve thought it before, but thinking he was ‘a bit of a bastard’ when he left the house yesterday felt new? You also just witnessed what we told you was the case: he is perfectly capable of sorting himself out with his hand.

I think you need some of this perspectives to help you see him properly and ultimately pull away from him.

When you say he sorted himself out behind you, you mean he masturbated on his side of the bed, under the covers? Or do you mean he was right up close behind you?

No he was close behind me but he didn’t take it any further

Yes it’s a new feeling but rather pathetically it doesn’t last! He’s still got a hold on me where I’m totally head over heels for him. He’s got this energy which is so attractive . I can’t explain it.

just got to remember what you’ve all said and what the therapist said. That the push/pull is intentional to keep me confused

OP I was wondering why you had your last thread deleted? Are you getting anxious about him finding out again?

Yes very
I go through phases of this

Is he showing any signs of being suspicious?

You speak about attraction to him and feeling you’re desperately in love with him still.

A lot of those feelings are common in a trauma bond with an abuser Poet.

Have a look at these lists, which do you honestly identify with?

In a trauma bond:

• You feel most connected during or immediately after conflict
• The “good times” exist primarily as contrast to the bad times
• You spend more energy managing your partner’s emotional state than expressing your own
• Your sense of self shrinks over time
• You confuse relief with happiness
• The relationship gets worse over time, but your attachment gets stronger
• You cannot imagine your life without this person, and that thought terrifies you

In a genuine attachment bond:

• You feel most connected during ordinary moments, not just dramatic ones
• Conflict is uncomfortable but does not threaten the foundation of the relationship
• Both partners can express vulnerability without punishment
• Your sense of self expands over time
• You experience genuine contentment, not just relief
• The relationship deepens over time because trust accumulates
• You can imagine your life without this person (you just would not want to)

The core difference is this: in a genuine attachment bond, safety is the baseline. In a trauma bond, safety is the exception. And when safety is the exception, your nervous system never rests. It is always scanning, always bracing, always preparing for the next drop.

When you say "upholding the ban", did he pester you again last night? You say the tension is terrible, this is all atmosphere the kids will pick up on even if they don't know why

I was having a look back today while waiting for an appointment, and thought it might be helpful to look at some of Poet's husband's behaviour from the beginning of March, and how she viewed it:

• "I think he just wants to make me feel comfortable and happy and make it better" and "He was devastated and is being very lovely and caring now. I know he is trying to make things better." - But since then, he's been violently sexually abusive multiple times, he's created an 'atmosphere' of anger and tension, and he's not actually done anything to make it better.

• "I felt like he did take me seriously and he did listen as I cried and told him." and "He has promised to be more aware and sensitive in the future."- But he didn't take you seriously, and he didn't care how you felt as he hasn't changed a thing - in fact, he's been worse since then. He broke his promises a dozen times over.

• "There is a bit of a power imbalance especially with me trying to ‘keep the peace’ as it were but it’s easy to think it sounds awful out of context. In most ways he is kind and respectful and lovely to me." - Except the power imbalance is huge, as he's over a decade older and met you when you were still reeling from a violent rape, has coercively controlled you ever since you met, had violent, drunken outbursts, raped you, and financially abuses you.

• "He has promised it will never happen again and I am choosing to trust him at this time" - Except he has sexually violated you (violently) multiple times since he made that promise. His promises are worth nothing, and your trust was tragically misplaced.

You've come such a long way since then, Poet, in terms of being able to look at his behaviour with a more critical and objective eye, and see the abusive patterns of behaviour.

But please, when you're feeling 'head over heels' and attracted, remember that he lied to you - he broke his promises to you, he hasn't been loving and caring, or more aware and sensitive - you've just become braver and bolder about actually saying 'no' and discouraging him, and he has to be more careful because he knows you're at therapy. He's also bought you expensive gifts and then immediately told you that he has a large amount of credit card debt, and he still hasn't given you access to the accounts.

He's controlling, abusive, and dangerous, and frankly I'm not sure you know what 'head over heels' actually means, because it doesn't mean things like being hyper-alert to his every mood, desperately eager to please so he doesn't get in a mood, incredibly relieved he's happy, relishing the smallest of kindnesses, and thinking it's progress that he only physically pinned your legs down and pulled them apart to non-consensually penetrate you with his fingers.

I honestly don't think you have a healthy concept of what romantic love is.

This is why it's so helpful to keep the old threads to refer back to. I wonder if you could ask MN to reinstate it and ask your friend to print it out OP? Then you could delete it again if you want.

Also, this is concerning 'another night of ‘upholding’ the ban, for what I don’t know'

Again, is this just your anxiety or is this what he is saying?

You should not have to be fighting him off every night. This week should be a respite for you. An opportunity to relax and rest. Instead you are on constant alert, bracing yourself for the next attack.

I don’t think it’s going to be like flipping a switch on how you feel, but I do think you have more awareness now which is progress. You can probably also see, in the pattern already identified, he’s at his most charismatic and lovable right before therapy isn’t he? Let’s just recognise that. When he’s back to being moody and snappy after tomorrow, and making it very clear there’s been too much time without sex, you can also recognise that part of the pattern too without feeling crushed by the ‘change’ in him.