(TW SA) New support thread …

[PinkPoetAgain1]

Another thread full, still learning that things are not normal as I thought they were .

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5522581-tw-sa-new-therapist-new-thread

thank you everyone for being so patient and supportive ❤️

Anger sounds like a healthy response to someone disrespecting you and showing a complete disregard for you as a person, and I’m glad you have a therapist you can now delve into things with. Just talking about the past week is eye opening, from clearly communicating you wanted a break, to the number of times you were pestered and then assaulted, through to having to give in last night.

Something else occurred to me that you might think is normal but definitely isn't. Consent needs to be given before any kind of foreplay starts. Foreplay isn't (or shouldn't be) about persuading you to give consent or change your mindbwhen you've already said no.

In the last 3 months you’ve described how his behaviour has escalated which appears to be linked to you trying to make sense of your experiences and telling him of your upset/flashbacks. He subjects you to weekly rapes and sexual assaults. He knows what he’s doing, he’s explicitly told you that. He learned from a manual. Maybe it’s worth considering during therapy why you are prepared to accept his way of living, and whether mentally you will be able to tolerate this. Why do his feelings trump your own? Is it the lifestyle he provides?

Yes absolutely, that’s sexual assault.

I think it s wonderful ,how far you ve come this past while Pinkpoet.
You are starting to see his behaviour for what it is now.
Your most recent post informs us how much your own insight and narrative has shifted.
Your eyes are opening and your starting to be honest with your own thoughts and feelings regarding all of this.Your also now have the ability to speak honestly about it all.
You ve come so far ; really proud of you.
The support you ve received on these threads have been amazing in helping you untangle your thoughts and feelings on what ( still) is an extremely complex (and dangerous), situation for you.
You ve come such a long way, you re very resilient. Keep posting,keep reading and we are all sending you so much support.
Well done 😘X

"He seems to think he has a magical power to turn a no into a yes with some touching. Like the incident the other day with the legs, he probably doesn’t even see that as assault he just thinks his forplay skills will immediately override my no and I’ll be into it."

He knows that it's sexual assault. He just doesn't care.

There shouldn't be any trying to turn a no into a yes. No persuading, no overriding. No means no. Only yes means yes. An enthusiastic yes, not a worn down by pestering acceptance.

Poet, he is a grown man with experience of sex who read a manual about how to ignore ‘no’ and have sex with your ‘target’ regardless.

He knows that using your legs to pin a woman in position, let alone after she told you no and had asked for a break, then put your fingers in her vagina is sexual assault. He just doesn’t care.

Just like he knows having sex with an unconscious woman is rape. Which is why he lied to your face about doing it to you recently. He just doesn’t care.

He has no fear you will leave and no fear you will report him. He doesn’t know you are starting to get some anger and that your anger will hopefully turn into courage and determination. He thinks you’re a silly little girl he can manipulate for as long as he continues to want to.

He seems to think he has a magical power to turn a no into a yes with some touching. Like the incident the other day with the legs, he probably doesn’t even see that as assault he just thinks his forplay skills will immediately override my no and I’ll be into it .

As pp have said, no, he doesn't think he has a magical power to turn a no into a yes. He doesn't think he's some Casanova who makes panties drop with a wink and a cheeky grin, because if that was the case he wouldn't have had to pin your legs, forcibly prise them apart, and force himself on you.

He doesn't think that women want their legs wrenched apart so he can penetrate them digitally without any preparation or care, after they've already said no to sexual activity - he understands that's sexual assault, not foreplay.

What he knows, is that he has the physical power to pin you down and ignore your no, and then violate you however he wants. And so that's what he does to you, on a regular basis.

I do think it's very important to try not to think of him as some terminally stupid, totally oblivious rogue, who somehow doesn't realise that he's violently assaulting and terrorising his wife on a regular basis.

"He seems to think he has a magical power to turn a no into a yes with some touching. Like the incident the other day with the legs, he probably doesn’t even see that as assault he just thinks his forplay skills will immediately override my no and I’ll be into it."

I also could think of different interpretations of that event. But I do notice that you have ascribed much better intentions than might actually be the case. Readers here are getting a different view of his behaviour. Ultimately only he knows (on some level) why he does what he does - so we can only surmise, from what you've told us, how you describe events, and how they make you feel, and patterns that emerge. But I would urge you to consider more possibilities for his behaviour rather than "a best case scenario" - for example here: that he thought he could make you get "into it".

Other possibilities: he could have also been reinforcing to himself his superiority over you (in his own mind), he could have been pushing against and weaking your new boundaries (force of habit even for him at this point), he could have been getting wank fodder (sorry to be blunt) for when he had to go off and wank somewhere else that evening.

And it doesn't even matter if his behaviour is always conscious or sub-conscious, intentional or not (who can ever know?) whatever harm occurs to you occurs to you regardless. The consequences to you will occur regardless of his intentions. I stayed in a harmful relationship years longer than I should have, because he kept assuring me he did not have bad intentions. But the harm was being done regardless, I was shrinking year by year, becoming less than, not realising my full potential, not self-actualising (as they call it in psychology). I was not becoming a strong and powerful woman in my own right.

Not ‘foreplay skills’ but force skills.

Touching certain parts of someone’s body can elicit automatic, reflex responses.

For example raped men often get an erecton so they feel complicit in their own rape.

A raped woman might have an orgasm.

I’m afraid I’m also popping on to say he absolutely doesn’t think he’s such a charmer that you’ll change your mind having said no.

He is punishing you for saying no. He didn’t pin you down and forcibly penetrate you because he couldn’t resist you and thought you did really want it. He did it because he doesn’t like you, doesn’t like being told no, and wanted to hurt and dominate you.

I know that’s incredibly blunt, but while you are still feeling gently-gently about what’s happened, I think you need us to not mince our words.

You are in a war of attrition. He’s been waging it for decades. He’s been winning.

You are starting to gain some ground, a sense of ownership of your body, you are gaining agency.

That’s massively threatening to him. Do be careful.

Thank you all for bringing the perspective as always

the therapist went for it today - she called out his behaviour and said there are a few things which concern her . She said she personally would not advise me to push the joint access to money thing as she believes he may not take it well. Lots to think about as usual

Well done Poet.

Did you tell her super clearly about the prising legs apart and penetration with his fingers incident?x

Poet - please contact WA again. You are awakening and you need more support. This isn’t about leaving/going to a refuge, it’s about gaining more knowledge and strength. WA is what this thread is doing but in real life. Women supporting women. You need a plan because the reality is you cannot continue to live like this. You can’t put this back in the box. We know he’s dangerous, your therapist knows he’s dangerous, please get more help from WA.

Yes I did
it was so hard to say out loud

Ok , I will take your advice . I’ll try to get in touch with them this week when I have a bit of time

That's very brave of you, Poet - it's such a hard, awful thing to have to say aloud. I'm glad that the therapist was able to discuss it with you, and I hope that it felt like a positive conversation, if a difficult one.

Really proud of you Poet. You’re really starting to see things a bit clearer and make huge progress.

Can I just also say, I am so, so happy (if that’s the right word?) that you posted on here originally. I am so glad we’ve all been able to support you through this so far.

Thank you. It was SUCH a shock initially!
youve all been so lovely ❤️

I am so proud of you Poet. He has no idea what a strong, capable woman you are and that hundreds of us are willing you on. You’ve done incredibly well, what a breakthrough to say it out loud x

Well done Pink, and yes apart from demonstrating what you already know (that he wants to fully control finances) there’s no point in pushing that now. Especially with his escalation.

By ‘went for it’ it sounds like she was able to label things, I hope that was more validating for you than frightening.

Did you manage to check the Child Benefit thing? I’m not wanting you to do anything unsafe but I think with advice it is worth looking into. Even if the money is not claimed, which you can opt out of due to the tax implications. As you don’t actually have access to the family finances I have a concern that he does in fact claim this, or has himself registered as the claimant (or could do so) just to block you from it.

This OP.
forget ‘leaving’ for the moment.

this is primarily about an awakening, a realisation, a gaining of information, knowledge and awareness.

leaving will come when it come.

you need so much support please speak to women’s aid to supplement this.

Well done Poet, you are so brave.

The assault where he trapped you then prized your legs apart and forcibly penetrated you - he has recreated the assault when you were a student, and he’s done that on purpose. He will try to gaslight you into thinking the only reason you didn’t like him doing that is because of your trauma from that incident.

He is punishing you for saying no. He didn’t pin you down and forcibly penetrate you because he couldn’t resist you and thought you did really want it. He did it because he doesn’t like you, doesn’t like being told no, and wanted to hurt and dominate you.

Which, if you remember, is exactly what he did the last time you asked for a break OP.

By the way regarding this Like when he’s ’desperate’ every touch, hug, kiss whatever turns sexual in some way.

There really is no such thing as 'desperate' for sex. How do you think single men, men working away from home, men in the armed forces, men in prison, etc. manage? If they get a sexual urge they masturbate, they don't turn to the nearest person that 'turns them on' and sexually assault them. Only deviants do that.

Just in case you weren't aware that this isn't a thing. He can sort himself out like everyone else does and like you witnessed him doing the other night.

And one final thing. Pinning you down with his legs and forcing your legs aside is not foreplay. I don't know what you think foreplay is but it certainly is not that!