November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

P.S. @Ydkiml you ARE a good person. Don't let your mother take that fact away from you. Hugs. Xxx

Thankyou ….. it sounds like you’ve got the situation sorted and well done, im pleased she won’t be spoiling your Xmas this year …. I know I’m a good person, but I never feel like a good daughter despite all I do . I need to stop trying to seek her validation and praise because it’s never going to come . She can say the nastiest , most hurtful things. Used to hit me a lot , when I was still living there as a young adult . And would never apologise. I get wound up thinking about it . She doesn’t deserve me . But unfortunately I can’t shift the believe that’s it’s my job , my responsibility as a good daughter!! If I stop going and stop doing things to help , then she’s was right all along wasn’t she , I’m a bad daughter !

Hi Ydkiml

Examine more closely why you think your mother is your job and your responsibility as a "good daughter". She instilled these erroneous beliefs in you and trained you from an early age to serve her and put yourself last. If anyone is truly bad here it is your mother; a woman who is not worthy of being called this.
Would you call her anything like a good mother; no you would not. I am sorry too that there was no other adult seemingly around or actually bothered to protect you from her.

By living with and aligning ourselves with the narcissist-induced guilt, we are effectively giving up our right to be happy, to feel safe, and to be ourselves in favour of keeping the narcissist’s ego in check.

Determine why you feel guilty. Be sure you understand why you’re feeling guilty. What did you do wrong? Did you really do anything wrong? Avoid feeling guilty for things outside of your control like your mother. You are only responsible for your own self, not her in any way.

Once you forgive yourself, the guilt is gone. If you actually did something that warrants guilt, try putting yourself in the other person’s shoes. Imagine that the error you made happened to you. You’d probably forgive the other person without too much fuss. You should treat yourself at least as well! Notice how much easier it is for you to forgive someone else than it is to forgive yourself. You should be the best friend you’ll ever have. Treat yourself like it.

At some point, you have to let it go and get on with your life. There’s no value in holding on to guilt. Guilty feelings suggest that you did something wrong and need to learn from it. Your mother continues to manipulate you even now as an adult; you need to see her manipulation for what it really is and release the guilt. The guilt isn’t healthy and it is keeping you stuck! Now it’s time to set yourself free. Allow yourself to move forward from your guilt.

@Ydkiml what @AttilaTheMeerkat is exactly right. I’ve seen my partner move further and further away from the fucked up relationship he has with his family especially The Hag. He’s got some stuff that he needs to do - solely taking the witch to medical appointments - as Slave BIL is disabled and can’t manage.

unfortunately, we’re going have to host the pair of fuckwits here on Xmas Day. After Hag’s behaviour at Xmas last year at my mum’s where Mr Monkey and I stay for a week and the Hag wants to stay, too, for a week - we said NEVER
again.

It was then this year going to be a meal at the cheapest pub known to humanity but they were booked up. So, it’s a two hour max meal here. My mum will stay Xmas Eve, we’ll zoom the normal family in the am, have lunch late - I’m thinking 3pm as Hag and Slave Son will get tired and fuck off home, then it’s getting drunk on the sofa with my mum, and then to hers on Boxing Day. Not doing turkey, Mr Monkey is doing a beef stew, no starter (it will make the meal longer), pudding and cheese served together. We’re not sitting on the sofa after the meal - she can sit at the table, be uncomfortable and then go home. We’ll zoom her grandchildren at the table. They taxi here, they taxi back. I have it worked out. Adieu and fuck off.

It’s not my ideal Xmas, but hopefully it will be the last one ever. I’m just going to blunt it with wine and tank her up with wine. Slave Son will be in the garden most of the time smoking like a chimney so I won’t need to deal with him and we won’t need to hear too much of the Hag bullying him.

Mr Monkey hasn’t told her the plans as we can’t be arsed with the drama and she’s probably sitting there waiting for an invite to my mum’s lovely warm house.

I feel like it’s a good plan anf I feel in control.

Update from my last post and it’s not at all what I expected or hoped for, but should have known. Idiot me.

Turns out my aunt who claimed for my 47 years of existing that she would always support me, now isn’t. The only member of my FOO who I finally found the strength to open up to, has (I think?) gaslit me.

Despite her hundreds of occasions where she has told me her suspicions of her brothers misogynistic narcissistic traits of controlling my mother and seeing the disparity in difference of treatment between me & my brother, I stupidly asked if I could confide in her and she said yes. Idiotically I took this to mean she would have my back….but now, seemingly, it doesn’t.

2 months on from sending the 5 pages of bulletpointed traumatic incidents I went through, the first time I heard from her was asking what she could get my daughter for her birthday.

Absolutely no acknowledgment of anything I had told her, no recognition. I asked her if she got it to which she said yes. I asked why she hadn’t even texted a basic’Hope you’re ok’ that didn’t need to go onto anything heavy & she threw it at me that if she didn’t necessarily want to reply, she didn’t have to. I’m just so so sad because she has spent her life moaning about him, she said I’m like her little sister, she did to me exactly what they have done since the day I was born which was ignore me, push me away, not hear me, shut down my feelings when they said they’d listen.

If I had received information like this, hell, I would have called, or messaged or sent a card or something?

So now I’ve told her that I don’t feel comfortable in accepting a gift.

I guess it’s right….”no-one nurtures the scapegoat”?

Did I set my expectations too high? Did she gaslight me? I’m all over the place with this now. The one person. The only person.

I am sorry this happened to you. Your post resonated with me as a very similar thing happened to me with the family member I confided in. Mine behaved like they were on my side and then fed information back to my abusers about me while claiming to have been equally hurt by them. They also started treating me similarly to my abusers. It was like when they learnt what I had put up with they saw me as a willing emotional punchbag. I have completely cut off my extended family now because I have realised with the whole of a narcissistic family, if you look back at them you realise the majority of them are either narcissists, enablers, flying monkeys or survivors of abuse. The whole family is effected by it, and as a result none of them can be really trusted. It’s like a few bad apples really do rot the whole barrel.
maybe in time your Aunt will process what she has read and show some solidarity with you, I hope things work out better for you than they did me.

@Scapegoat1 I tried to obtain your username 🙂 Not fair how our past defines us and makes us who we are, who we become, is it?

Spot on to the ‘whole barrel’ situation. For my entire adult life I had “my parents” asking me why my aunt kept her distance from them, and why she kept in touch with me. The betrayal I feel is life-changing I think more than the realisation of everything else. Because if she’s now not supporting me, and she knows me to the core, since the day I was born, then there’s no hope for me. I truly now have no-one to speak to who knows them, meaning they all got what they set out to do which is what most of us here in Stately Homes know - ostracism.

I think she’s (sadly) shown to me who she is. I’ve had a lifetime of giving people second chances and all I’ve ever had back is what she’s done. I’m now perfectly OK to not acknowledge her text when it comes wishing my daughter a happy birthday. As far as I’m concerned emotionally, she said she’d be there for me, she wasn’t, she’s history☹️I was broken before, I explained that to her along with telling her I’d never been heard…..and she broke her word.

People, eh?

Firstly Thankyou for responding to me and trying to help , I really do appreciate your effort . You certainly do make sense and you’ve made me really think hard . Your right , I had no other adult as a child in my life that really cared . I’ve literally only just realised (because you’ve made me think hard and answer your questions) that I actually feel guilty because she was left with me and my brother by my father to raise on her own . She struggled with her anger / mental health/ and financially when he left . I guess I feel guilty for that . He moved on with my step mam and had 3 other children. I think she did actually try her best with us but she struggled and I feel guilty about that ! I’ve never realised this till today . I tried my upmost as a child and as a adult to make her happy and she never was . She hates my dad and struggled with me longing for him . I do have a relationship with him but it’s not very deep . I love him so much but I’ve never felt he has my back .
I can honestly say I don’t feel any guilt to her about any actions of my own . I honestly don’t think I’ve ever done her wrong . Yes I’ve shouted back at her in arguments but that it . I never hit her back when she was taking my head off (in front of my ex boyfriend or in the street) and have always defended her , stuck up for her , I feel guilty because it was hard for her raising us on her own . But we were good kids . She tried her best when we were small .
Now, she loves to belittle me , embarrass me , make me feel like I owe her completely, expects me to try harder to make her happy , critize me , because she knows I can’t walk away . In my head that would be me being a horrible person leaving her with nobody .
you’ve made me realise that if this was my friend , doing what I do for my mam and then deciding to walk away from her mam , I would say I don’t blame you , and never think bad of her . But I know I’m not that brave , I know anyone reading this will feel frustrated at my thoughts , I get that but I just can’t do it . Because deep down I know , if I left her and went nc , I would feel guilty because of her raising me as good as she could as a child upto about 14 yrs then the abuse started and has never stopped .

My last post was for Attila x That’s sounds like a good plan monkeyfromManchester! You have her well n truely sussed ….. Ive said it before and I ll say it again , your wording always makes me lol , you crack me up , not the situation but your phrases you use and your writing style . Love it x

"Your right , I had no other adult as a child in my life that really cared . I’ve literally only just realised (because you’ve made me think hard and answer your questions) that I actually feel guilty because she was left with me and my brother by my father to raise on her own . She struggled with her anger / mental health/ and financially when he left".

You were abjectly let down by both parents.

That was not your fault either, you were but a child at the time. Your mother did not seek the necessary help. Women like your mother cannot do relationships so the men in their lives are either discarded or are as narcissistic as they are.

There are plenty of people out there who raise children as single parents and do not go onto abuse them like you have been. Her so called best was simply not good enough. There is furthermore NO excuse or justification for her abuses of you.

Do you think your mother feels any guilt, no she does not nor does she feel any remorse for how you have been treated. If you choose not to walk away she will keep on at you like she has done because this is who she really is. She is not going to say sorry to you or apologise; these types of disordered of thinking people never do so. You have to let go of the guilt because guilt is a useless emotion and is keeping you trapped.

You are brave deep down, there's a person in there who wants to get out.

Read this over and over till it goes in!!!

By living with and aligning ourselves with the narcissist-induced guilt, we are effectively giving up our right to be happy, to feel safe, and to be ourselves in favour of keeping the narcissist’s ego in check.

Determine why you feel guilty. Be sure you understand why you’re feeling guilty. What did you do wrong? Did you really do anything wrong? Avoid feeling guilty for things outside of your control like your mother. You are only responsible for your own self, not her in any way.

Once you forgive yourself, the guilt is gone. If you actually did something that warrants guilt, try putting yourself in the other person’s shoes. Imagine that the error you made happened to you. You’d probably forgive the other person without too much fuss. You should treat yourself at least as well! Notice how much easier it is for you to forgive someone else than it is to forgive yourself. You should be the best friend you’ll ever have. Treat yourself like it.

At some point, you have to let it go and get on with your life. There’s no value in holding on to guilt. Guilty feelings suggest that you did something wrong and need to learn from it. Your mother continues to manipulate you even now as an adult; you need to see her manipulation for what it really is and release the guilt. The guilt isn’t healthy and it is keeping you stuck! Now it’s time to set yourself free. Allow yourself to move forward from your guilt.

Wise words from@AttilaTheMeerkat as always.

It's difficult though, a year on from my "mother" tipping me over the edge, I know, in my head, that I didn't do anything wrong, that I was at the very least seriously emotionally neglected from early childhood, and that she is a damaged person who has made no effort to improve herself which is something I have no control over.

But those realisations along with having been cut off from her side of the family hurt in the heart as well as the head, and that, for me, is taking a lot longer to come to terms with. People who I thought cared about me only cared as long as I didn't rock the boat. Now I'm like the worst person in the world to them, even though I didn't do anything to them, I just refused to engage with my "mother" on the phone or in person. Every now again when thinking about the situation (I try not) a feeling wells up in me and I'm not too sure what it is, but it's not nice. Back to my therapist next week, we will have a discussion about this.

So @Parishcouncil I feel your pain. When you said "I’m now perfectly OK to not acknowledge her text when it comes wishing my daughter a happy birthday. As far as I’m concerned emotionally, she said she’d be there for me, she wasn’t, she’s history☹️I was broken before, I explained that to her along with telling her I’d never been heard…..and she broke her word." it struck me that perhaps you might consider blocking her? When you've been cast aside by people who you thought understood at least some of what you've gone through, waiting for a communication from them is quite stressful. I blocked most of those on my "mother"'s side so I don't have to worry about anything coming in to upset me, leaving me to deal with things at my own pace. Before I did this, if a message came in it would upset my whole day.

Tbh , I have learnt more from you with your caring response, than my many times of counselling. Think you need to divert your career 😀 . But on a serious note , Thankyou again . I will work on moving forward and try to see past the responsibility, guilt and hope of some credit from her . She doesn’t feel guilty one bit , infact I think she still feels resentment for me . I’m a mother myself and I would be devastated at my children feeling this way . They are my privilege, and I am honoured to be their mother . They owe me nothing and never will . Absolutely nothing …..
your doing a remarkable job with these threads , helping so many people . ❤️

Hi,

Thank you all for your support, I’m so sorry we all had to face this but I’m “glad” this thread exists as I feel less alone.

@Escapingafter50years I’m going to have a look at the books you recommended, I’m trying to read on the subject to understand all this a bit better

@Twobirdsinatree thank you!! I hate how every single horrible thing she’s said or done I ended up thinking it was my fault..

@AttilaTheMeerkat she’s actually getting worse it seems.. My dad is in the picture but is and was always very absent because of his job. He’s not bad and sometimes the object of my mum’s fury too.. But I guess he was also an enabler in a way

I’m in a bit of a rush tonight but hugs to everyone who posted here!!! You’re all very brave and I really hope we will all manage to get through this and prioritize ourselves.

Blocking is the answer - if you want, it can be reversed. The Hag is blocked on my phone. Mr Monkey takes calls and rings her out of my earshot. I never answer the landline.

He has instructions NOT to involve me in ANY of the conversations about the Season of Misery and No Goodwill to Anyone which he will begin in December, although we normally have Xmas Card nonsense from early November. NOT MY PROBLEM THIS YEAR. It's a blessing that Xmas shit hasn't started as it normally starts - bang on - on or around the 7 September. He is dealing with it all. I’m buying sherry and intend to get trashed with a paper crown on.

The issue with these people is that they have no guilt or self-awareness and we've been trained to be at their beck and call. Our families are all part of the problem, too. We've all got our roles - I'm the snotty evil daughter in law who sees right through Hag. They up the evil when they perceive their grip is slipping.

I think one thing I have realised as I have gotten older is that you cannot be responsible for someone elses happiness./ unhappiness Only your own.
So it is wasted energy trying to make dysfunctional people happy because it is impossible to achieve.
I get the guilt of feeling responsible but everyone has to take responsibility for their own lives and if they are unhappy then only they can ultimately change it.
It is not our job !

I am noticing so many posters saying that they can't go NC because the guilt will eat them alive and they will feel terrible when the person dies.

This is really disordered thinking.

What you're effectively saying is that you will continue to put yourself through the mincer until that person dies, because it's the lesser evil than going no contact.

I didn't "plan" going NC. I just did it one day when I finally had had enough. The worst offender was my Toxic Sister (who I later realised is a carbon copy of my mother), and her arsehole enabler husband who launched a full-on narc hate campaign because I dared to deviate from their demands.

My mother was a deeply damaged woman who used me as her punchbag throughout my childhood. I left home at 17 and should never have gone back, but of course got sucked into a lifetime of FOG.

So saying "fuck this" one day and walking away was no surprise, but it WAS very very hard and the guilt was awful, but I stuck to my guns.

My mother died earlier this year.

Toxic Sister kicked off and absolutely excelled herself. Sent flying monkeys to my children. One of my daughters had to call me and tell me some days after the event. Toxic Sister and BIL had been living out of DM's bank account for years, had coerced her into changing her will, and didn't even bother with a funeral.

I am so relieved that the old dear is dead and I DID NOT FEEL BAD about going NC. I don't have to think about any of that shit any more, and I couldn't give a flying fuck. It's over.

I will remain NC with my siblings because they bring nothing but misery to my life and I am way past caring.

I chose to live my life the way that I wanted to, not the way that was expected (moreover DEMANDED) of me.

So I really feel for all of you who are going through the FOG and trying to find a way out without hurting anyone. It's not possible, and the person being most hurt by staying in there is you.

Solidarity to all.

And to @MonkeyfromManchester - excellent plan for Christmas Day.

Going nc is not evil at all . It’s brave of you and I’m pleased you couldn’t give a flying fuck and have removed yourself emotionally from the shit . However, it’s different for everyone. I would remove myself if my mother had someone else , like your mother had in your sister and brother in law . If I removed myself , she would literally have not one other person and that’s what makes it very hard . So I feel my case is different to yours . Everyone’s case is different.

@Ydkiml - you are absolutely right. Every situation is different and I apologise unreservedly if my post came across as insensitive.

Sicario , Thankyou . I don’t think your intention was to be insensitive, although it did sound abit . I think you were trying to help by expressing that not giving a flying shit is ok to feel after all the shit you’ve been through. Righty so , I think you have a sense of proudness that you’ve come this far and feel that way ! I’m am genuinely pleased you’ve got there , to that point . I really hope one day I could feel that way . I’m trying . At the end of the day , none of this is any of our fault . You n I and others were / are abused by a parent or parents and I would love to one day get to your stage of thinking . I mean it when I say it , well done , be proud you don’t give a flying fuck 🙂

Please would someone give me some advice?

Im an only child and I’ve never felt that either of my parents like me. My mum is unhappy with my dad, always has been and now that he is getting older and older and his health is declining and he drinks too much, she’s getting stressed about that and I feel that she dumps how she feels about that on me.

A few weeks ago, I was really ill with a childhood type virus and she offered to look after my dd even though DD’s dad had said that he would take care of her whilst I was ill. She does things like this and then later complains about it and accuses me of putting too much on her.

What I’m really angry about it that she is goes and bitches about me to her brother who then sticks his nose in. She lies and tells him I shout at her all the time. The only time I’ve shouted is when she provoked me by telling one of my youngest children that I don’t care about the oldest one who has very high care needs. She lives quite a journey away, and I don’t always feel that I’m able to see her more than once a month because I have my own disabilities and weekends are the only time I have any time to do stuff I need to or even just take a rest. The brother hasn’t been horrible to me about it. But he thinks this is a fixable family dynamic when it isn’t. And that it can all be made better with a few adjustments. The reality is that everything I do is wrong. Everything is my fault as far as she’s concerned. She has always done this thing where she seems to want to put me on trial and aim her victimhood at me.

Me and my daughters never argue or shout at each other. And yet I’m the one being painted as an abuser here when my mother is the one who sends me aggressive text messages, points her finger at me and shouts. And has a history of punching people sometimes, even. I was angry about her telling dd3 that I don’t care about dd1.

It’s so unfair. I end up very confused.

Hi all. I haven’t posted on this thread before. All of your experiences have elements of mine. I have been NC with my mum for over 3 years now, and very very LC with my dad for the same (seen him once and texts once every couple of months or so).

It took me 15+ years of torment from them both for me to reach that point, the trigger was my first baby being born, and realising I didn’t want the same sort of family for her that I had myself. I want to bring her and DD2 up in a calm, drama-free, fair environment where fights and insults aren’t a routine way of interacting with somebody.

My parents split when I was 14. They had never got along - walking on egg shells is a mild way to put it. My mum took glee in telling me about my dad’s alleged ‘affairs’ which turned out never actually happened, and he was an alcoholic who preferred PC games to spending any time with us. They used to lock us in the garden barefoot in winter so they could scream at each other in peace, the house was ruled by their moods and atmospheres. When they split I was relieved. They both then met other - much worse(!) - partners, and things really took a turn from there. My mum’s was abusive, violent and controlling of money etc. Once I called the police only for my mum to tell them I was making it up and a fantasist who needed sectioning. Eventually she ended up calling the police herself and a domestic violence case ensued, but she still won’t admit she put us through anything, or should’ve done more to protect us. Or expressed any understanding of our feelings during those years. She’s a narcissist who rewrites history and has an enormous amount of pride. She’s lost friends, family and her kids, because she’s impossible to get along with and sees everything as a slight.
As for my dad, his new wife was gold digging and isolated him from everyone. She retired the moment she met him at 44 and persuaded him to spend his life savings on house deposits for her kids. She turned him against his friends and family, refused to let us ever see him without her, and made up things we allegedly said to start arguments. He’s become so isolated with her over the years he can no longer interact ‘normally’ with people if that makes sense - the booze doesn’t help either (they both start drinking at 11am every day). Their version of entertainment is to post vile messages in our family group chats and then watch the ensuing argument - it gives them a reason to feel United I suppose, as they married in haste and deep down aren’t a good match. They emigrated several years ago leaving us to look after his extremely elderly parents with many care needs. The only input he has had in this it to criticise what everyone else is doing for them. But doesn’t do anything himself of course and rarely flies back to visit them.

It’s exhausting but I eventually realised I can never have the peace I need in my relationship with them because they don’t want it.

This isnt a case of differing characters. They actively start arguments for entertainment, enjoy my distress and don’t have a single genuine feeling for me as their daughter.

My siblings aren’t where I’m at yet - they’ve been in and out of touch with them over the years but still defend them occasionally. My dad is like Boris Johnson- he could do anything and my younger sister would defend him, god knows why. My older siblings tends to keep out of it but keeps giving them chances only to be disappointed.

Anyway my life is now far more peaceful, and I’ve resigned myself to probably not seeing either of them again before they die. it’s upsetting and leaves me with the feelings of guilt - but I must put my kids first and I have wasted nearly 20 years of my life trying to have something of a normal relationship with people that don’t actually want one.

My sympathies to you all 💐

I couldn't find the latest thread so started my own in relationships, hope it's ok to repost here for some advice:

I have a previous thread re my DM where I had some great advice, but am back for practical tips! www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4254341-Anyone-else-got-a-DM-like-this-and-how-to-handle

DD is now 2 and things are worse than ever. I tried to dial back communication and seeing DM as much but inevitably we've just lapsed back into old patterns.
At the start of this year I moved about a 4 hour drive away with my DP and DD. Over the year I have had to go back and stay with DM for various reasons and she has been here every 6 weeks for 3 days. I haven't really invited her with that frequency but its sort of been assumed she is welcome. I don't feel I can say no because I know how much she misses DD.
When I have been to stay with her it is hell on earth for me. She picks at me constantly about DD as per my previous thread, she disagrees with what I feed her and will manipulate situations to avoid feeding her food I have got her, tries to prevent her from doing things she doesn't approve of eg. soft play. She ended up pushing DD over and falling herself because she lunged at her and grabbed her to prevent her running. Just running in the garden, no additional danger in sight. She is also starting the 'weak and feeble ' narrative she imposed on me, telling me DD is a very sensitive child, gets tired easily, must rest frequently etc.
She is obsessed with a Penelope Leach book on babies and rams it down my throat at every opportunity, when I push back and say I'm not interested in the book, it isnt my style and I have my own preferred sources of info she shouts at me and tells me I'm stupid for not taking the advice. She disagrees on our choice of school for DD and again, has shouted at me about this. If I tell her these things are none of her business she shouts at me that DD is HER grandchild and she will bloody well speak up if she feels we aren't making good decisions. She has no respect for boundaries I try to set if she feels she HAS to tell me her opinion.We frequently get into horrible rows where I end up shouting and swearing at her because she makes me so angry- she will not listen to me and she doesn't care how she makes me feel. Then I feel guilty and horrible.

I have tried to calmly address my mum's behaviour with her and told her she is making me feel awful, I'm so on edge and anxious around her and it lasts for weeks after. I also question my decisions re DD a lot and feel like my mum thinks I'm a negligent parent, even though I know deep down I'm not. The upshot of that conversation was she doesnt MEAN to upset me therefore she can't a) be sorry or b) change her behaviour. I have always been difficult and I'm just looking for problems. I'm overly sensitive. If she's that bad why do I still see her and so on. She suggested I just don't listen to the bits of what she says that I don't like.

She is planning to move near to us in the next few years which initially I was on board with but the thought of it now makes me feel so panicked. I know she will be expecting to do childcare for DD and be very involved with her. I can't have her back in my life on a daily basis criticising me, taking over with
DD and trying to control both of us, the more involved she is the worse she gets. I'm so much happier having less contact with her, so much more confident and less anxious. I know she isn't ever going to change so what can I do? I feel absolutely awful thinking about telling her that I don't want her to live near us as she hasn't got anyone else and I hate the thought of upsetting her. I don't seem to be able to put my own wants first because it feels selfish.

I've always felt like its my responsibility to stay around and be involved with her and make her happy. If I did reduce contact I'll feel like the horrible difficult person she makes me out to be if I go against her. I feel so angry about how she's treated me though- she's controlled and undermined me my whole life, and left me unable to trust my own judgement plus the anxiety she's instilled in me which still causes me huge issues. The thought of her affecting DD in a similar way is awful plus potentially years of her disagreeing at every turn on how we decide to bring up DD, undermining me in front of her when she's old enough to understand, and I won't be able to do anything about it because she refuses to consider she's in the wrong.

So what I'm asking, and apologies for the long post, is if you have gone LC/NC with a close relative, how have you managed the guilt and not been sucked back into an unhealthy and damaging relationship time and time again? How do you reframe the relationship when you've previously been so 'close

@Sicario thank you re xmas - I would much rather have nothing to do with The Hag and not have her in my home, but this is my carefully worked out plan (actually, it took me five mins!)

Def doing the right thing as Mr Monkey has just returned from taking the witch to an eye appointment.

She has some canker on her face which she's just refused to go to the doctor about.
Constant moaning.
No one ever rings me, I sit staring at four walls.

this was ramped up as Mr Monkey didn't take her out for lunch. He nipped out for 45 mins - he's working at home - and does not have time to sit through a miserable lunch.

She's starting to bring up Christmas, and there's an unspoken assumption that she's going to my mums (laughs hysterically) as...

“Don’t bother getting me anything.”

MM:” that's ok we won't.”

“Tell Mummy Monkey not to get me anything.” - here we go, I'm going to that nice warm house...

MM: “you can tell her yourself”.

“Tell my daughter in law (my SIL) who lives in Scotland not to get me “any smelly stuff”.*”

This is all the gorgeous PRADA etc stuff SIL gets through her job.

“I'll need to tell the caretaker to get rid of it all for me.**”

MM: “give it to a charity shop.”

I’LL HAVE THE LOT, thinks Monkey.

We have said NOTHING about Xmas and won't for another month.

She can fucking stew.

She knows she fucked up last year and is waiting for the normal status quo. NO WAY.

Talk about emotionally stupid and entitled.

*rude and ungrateful
**ruder and reveals a lie she told that she was already putting stuff in the flat foyer for people to take away which was designed to wound.

@Sicario

You have SO much wisdom about going no contact. It's helped me to get to absolute bargain basement contact with The Hag.

So what I'm asking, and apologies for the long post, is if you have gone LC/NC with a close relative, how have you managed the guilt and not been sucked back into an unhealthy and damaging relationship time and time again? How do you reframe the relationship when you've previously been so 'close

I would like to know the answer to this as well.