November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

Just popping by as I really need help. I've been here before under other names. I'm currently living with my elderly mother having sold up & uprooted myself to be nearer to her. As it turns out the process did not go smoothly so instead of being in my own place nearby I'm currently squatting in her spare room. Tonight she has told me she feels suicidal.....over a bloody light bulb. No matter what goes wrong it is somehow my fault. Her acidic comments on everything i do are getting to me after only 2 months. Why am I even doing this? I have 2 siblings & neither of them are. I'm reminded of how unhappy I was as a child/teenager & all the reasons why. Strategies for coping in this situation most welcome.

For those posters asking how do you manage the guilt from going NC/LC

The guilt is really horrible. It's important to recognise that this is normal and that it's part of our lifelong conditioning. We feel guilty for putting our needs ahead of theirs. We are "not allowed" to break their rules.

I did not so much "manage" the guilt as learn to live with it. It took a long time to subside.

The other question, how do you not get sucked back in

I decided that my boundaries were unbreakable. I had got sucked back in so many times and it always ended the same toxic drama with my sister at the centre of it all.

After going NC. My toxic sister would find excuses to send me things in the post which were clearly passive aggressive or trying to get a response. I threw everything straight in the bin unopened. I refused to rise to any bait or respond to any flying monkeys. Then I moved house and none of my FOO have my address.

My only regret was not going NC much much sooner.

Going NC or LC ? This question I am struggling to decide on . My mother in her 80s is on her own . If I go NC , she has absolutely knowbody else so for me , the guilt of leaving her on her own makes it nearly impossible….. Also , her age . She’s not in good health and I don’t think she has even 3 yrs left . So if I go NC , she may die before I’ve managed to get over the guilt (which people have said it takes years and years to) if she dies and I’m not through the guilt , it will make the guilt I already feel , a hell of a lot worse , that unfortunately, I can’t see myself every being able to get over.

No abusive parent deserves our time , love or guilt . However , we need to think what’s best for us , not them in the long term . The decision of NC or LC is about what’s best for us , not them .

If they are quite young , 50s -70s you have time to go through the process of guilt and prepare yourself with them dying .
If you go NC but they have others around them so your not leaving them with nobody , then this situation is much easier to live with any guilt . If my mother had other people around her, I would of gone NC years ago .

So for me , going LC is a better choice . Working on becoming a stronger, confident, proud of myself daughter by doing things for her she doesn’t deserve, will help me massively get over any guilt when she dies .

Does this make any sense ?

She was once young and abusive, now she is old and abusive.

Who has told you it could take years and years to get over the guilt?.

Your mother is on her own through choice; she has no friends and has driven people away by her actions and choices. She wants you around only because of what you can do for her with the additional benefit to her of abusing you when you are in her presence. She could also well live on for another decade yet, do not be so certain that she has potentially three years left. Will you also end up feeling like a right mug on top of feeling guilty for doing stuff for a woman who is no mother to you and who frankly does not deserve one second of your time?.

It's ok to walk away from an abusive person like your mother and you do not owe her anything.

You're still very much trapped in this whole guilt mindset and I think you're still going to feel guilty when she dies too. It's going to bring up a whole host of emotions and feelings that you have not yet thought of.

Do you think that low contact would work out?. I personally do not think it would in your circumstances.

Do you think your mother feels any guilt towards you, no she does not nor does she feel any remorse for how you have been treated. If you choose not to walk away she will keep on at you like she has done because this is who she really is. She is not going to say sorry to you or apologise; these types of disordered of thinking people never do so. You do not need her approval, not that she would ever give this to you anyway. You have to let go of the guilt because guilt is a useless emotion and is keeping you trapped. Guilt implies wrong doing; you have done nothing wrong here. It's your mother who should feel guilt here but she does not, nor does she have any remorse either.

AttilaTheMeetkat - you’ve done it again !
Left me speechless !
I thought I had it totally sussed until that last post . Your right . I’ve never thought of it that way . You’ve know idea how that last post has impacted me . I need to give this a good think as I feel I’m may of got this totally wrong . Thanks again x

how do you manage the guilt from going NC/LC

Personally I think of my child and how I could never, ever, ever treat her in the way my parents treated me. I thought maybe I would ‘understand’ better as an adult why they did what they did, but it’s the opposite - I’m livid at how cruel they were to me.

So my way of coping is knowing that by going NC I am protecting my own family, who have to come first.

Thank you @Cuppasoupmonster and @Sicario , I really don't want my DD to grow up as full of anxieties and self doubt as I did. Do you have any tips for handling conversations with my mum? She is coming to stay next week and I have recently had a big fall out with my sister who is a total narcissist and who I now dont want to have contact with. When my mum hears this I know there will be shouting and 'don't be so RIDICULOUS, you can't not talk to your SISTER'. How can I stand my ground and not start justifying myself? I find if my mum pulls me up on something she doesn't agree with that I always try to reason with her and get her approval when really I'd like to be more 'this is how I feel, if you don't agree that is up to you but I won't be soothing your anxieties/being controlled any longer'. I've tried just doing stock phrases and not engaging but she then escalates and starts shouting.

@Flowerfairy101 I think you probably need boundaries with consequences. She's not respecting your boundaries because she doesn't suffer enough when she repeatedly tramples over them.

You tell her you're not discussing your sister. Leave the room if she continues.
If she brings up Penelope Leech, say I'm not discussing this, I already told you, and leave the room.
If she criticises your parenting, tell her she is not welcome to give unasked opinions. Leave the room if she continues.
If she shouts at you, insist that this is completely unacceptable and you will not tolerate it. Seriously, think about it. How dare she! I let my "mother" scream at me for years because I didn't realise I deserved better. I mean, who the fuck do they think they are?!

If leaving the room isn't enough, then you need to threaten further consequences - "if you persist with this behaviour you will need to leave my house and go home" - and you must follow through.

You are giving her the opportunity NOT to behave abusively. If she doesn't take the opportunity, that's on her, not on you.

Everything about your relationship is about her. What about you? Don't you matter?

You've been trained by this selfish bitch to have your own needs walked over by her. Reasoning doesn't work with her, she doesn't care. She actually doesn't believe that you have any rights. You are not your own person. You are the person she insists you be. But you have the right to be your own person, you have the right to have your needs and feelings respected.

I sympathise, I tried and tried with my "mother", she just got worse and worse, I reduced the time I spent with her and tried to support from a distance, ordering things online for her, keeping track of her banking, etc. but eventually she was so vicious to me, she made up a row and started shouting things designed to really hurt me - simply because I'd been away for the weekend and told her I was turning my phone off (she never phoned unless she wanted something but it seems I was to be available at all times). Having criticised my parenting, and my children, for over 20 years, she then told me if I'd been a proper mother she'd have a better relationship with her grandchildren. That did it for me. If you wait long enough, your mother might say something that makes you finally walk away. But I wish I had walked away many years before. Instead I let her abuse me for decades more than I might have experienced otherwise.

@Escapingafter50years I agree and thank you. I've asked her to leave before and she just calls me a silly little girl and treats it as me having a strop. She doesn't view me as an adult at all let alone an autonomous one and since I had DD she's just sort of absorbed her into the list of people that need her to protect them from themselves. Also a lot of her controlling behaviour she passes off as 'caring ' and its accepted by wider family as this which further compounds the 'flowerfairy is just difficult ' rhetoric. Surely if she actually cared about me she would listen to me when I say enough is enough. She also doesn't have to actually tell me what to do and what not to do- she just shits negativity and doubt all over my life and makes me question my decisions constantly, so I find it hard to assert that she is controlling because she's manipulating me into doing what she wants rather than being more overtly controlling. I once told her she doesn't respect any boundaries I try to have and she said boundaries aren't necessary in family relationships, you all just muddle along

@Flowerfairy101 Well there you have it. She's made it clear she's not going to change. She doesn't care about how you feel.

So nothing is going to change unless you change something.

It's hard. You could end up, like me, that your mother's family totally ostracise you. That's really really hurtful. Eventually you realise that having people like this in your life isn't a healthy thing anyway, but there's a lot of pain to go through to get to that point.

But I do think it's worth it. I look back and understand I turned a blind eye to some very selfish, controlling behaviour from relatives "for the sake of family". In doing that, I lost some of myself. Now I feel more authentically me, if that makes any sense.

My advice: Stand up for yourself, it's your life and you only have one.
Hopefully your DP sees how nasty she actually is and supports you.

Also have a listen to some or all of these podcasts, I found the Smoke and Mirrors one particularly good, but any I've listened to have been excellent
player.fm/search/helen%20villiers%20katie%20mckenna/episodes

Flowerfairy

Cancel her visit to you. Do not JADE your mother; just tell her that she will be unable to see you next week and end the conversation. If she turns up regardless you do not have to let her into your home.

She should not visit you under any circumstances because she is toxic and thus
emotionally unsafe as a person for you or your family to be around.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; what are your roles here?. If you sister is a narcissist (and likely too more favoured) then it is highly likely that she is a carbon copy of mother. You have also received the Special Training such adults receive. As Escapingafter50years writes, "You've been trained by this selfish bitch to have your own needs walked over by her. Reasoning doesn't work with her, she doesn't care. She actually doesn't believe that you have any rights. You are not your own person. You are the person she insists you be. But you have the right to be your own person, you have the right to have your needs and feelings respected."

Do you think your mother feels any guilt towards you, no she does not nor does she feel any remorse for how you have been treated. If you choose not to walk away she will keep on at you like she has done because this is who she really is. She is not going to say sorry to you or apologise; these types of disordered of thinking people never do so. You do not need her approval, not that she would ever give this to you anyway. You have to let go of the guilt because guilt is a useless emotion and is keeping you trapped. Guilt implies wrong doing; you have done nothing wrong here. It's your mother who should feel guilt here but she does not, nor does she have any remorse either.

She will never be the mother you perhaps still want her to be and you will need to let go of any and all residual hope that she will change. This is who she is and she is not going to change. She will inflict similar emotional damage on your child as has been done to you if she, this serial abuser because this is what she really is, is allowed further contact with you and your family unit.

You will ultimately need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

And be tired of being the last person who matters here.

Did anybody read my post?

@Notcopingwithmum
It sounds a tough situation to be in so I feel for you there. How long before you can move on because that sounds like the best thing in this situation. You definitely need some distance between you and your mother to.enable you to feel sane again !
Can you go low/ no contact after that ? It is not your responsibility to be your mums whipping boy!

I’ve found this thread and and I wondered if this is where I can get help . I’m so lost and it’s ruined my whole life so far I need to talk to people who understand

My mother emotionally abused me from such a young age, when older it was physical occasionally . As an adult she actively has tried to sabotage my life at every opportunity especially when I’ve been LC/NC it’s ruining everything and I can’t escape it she identifies my support or friends and she (with my dsis helping - golden child) try to destroy everything I have

@Notcopingwithmum
There’s no reasonable response or ‘normal’ way to cope with her behaviour. She’s dumping her crap on you because she’s incapable of any form of self reflection.
In her eyes, you’re meant to either shut up and accept it or disagree and give her some further ammunition to aim at you. If she’s anything like my mother, the way she wants you to respond will depend very much on her mood.

The normal adult response is to distance yourself from these types of people as there is no way to win. You always have to be the bad object.

I know it’s not easy when it’s your parent and you’re living with them. The best thing to do is realise that there is nothing you can do to change her. Put a boundary up between you and her and do your best to get out as soon as possible.

I’m sorry I don’t have any better advice than that. I tried for years with my own parents and it just led to further misery. It’s best to get out and not look back.

@FinallyItsTime
What’s your current situation? Are you able to move away?
They can’t destroy your life if they don’t know where you are.

No option to move unfortunately.

They can’t just leave me it seems I think LC/NC actually angers them? I always thought the less I react they’ll lose interest but it seems the less I react I or if I’m LC/nc they up their game. I’m exhausted by it all.

I’ve been thinking a lot about my childhood from as far back as I can remember up till now and I think I need therapy I’m so destroyed by it all

I used to tell myself I didn’t need the people who chose to believe them over me but they have stripped away my entire support network , friends and family. They have both carefully cultivated a public persona so that they are believable and credible because I know they are planning for the day I tell everyone the truth and they want to look squeaky clean and for me to look unreliable.

@FinallyItsTime
The best thing is to probably start distancing your life from them. Become more and more boring to them. As far as they are concerned you don’t do anything, you don’t see anyone, you don’t really have any strong opinions on anything.

You can reduce contact without any big announcements or arguments. Excuses like you’re busy at work, you’re ill, you’re really tired. They might up their game but continue to be constantly boring and un-engaging and eventually they will give up. If you’ve tried it in the past and stopped then it may take a while longer.

You don’t owe them a relationship or any part of your life and they certainly aren’t entitled to it. If you make any new friendships you can tell your friends that you don’t really get on with your family as they are quite manipulative. If someone is your friend first then there’s really no reason that they should even meet your family.

If you are on any social media you can create new private accounts that your Mum and sister know nothing about.

I wouldn’t assume that every person you meet will be fooled by their manipulation either. Those of us who have seen it all before won’t be.

I did this with my mother a few years before I cut contact. I remember her almost smiling face when she realised she was probably never going to see me again. It gave her the victim status she desperately needed and also meant that she didn’t have to deal with a daughter who she no longer got any narcissistic supply from.

"They can’t just leave me it seems I think LC/NC actually angers them? I always thought the less I react they’ll lose interest but it seems the less I react I or if I’m LC/nc they up their game".

This is all a part of their narcissistic cycle of abusing you.

I presume by this that they then send in the flying monkeys i.e usually well meaning but easily manipulated relatives and or friends to do their bidding for them.

If you are the scapegoat you are going to be scapegoated no matter what you do so you may as well do whatever it takes to have your best life which means away from them. Ultimately you have to end all contact with them.

See, my mum makes me feel like I am going mad. She sees everything through a lens which is distorted.

She accuses me of making her life stressful and says that I’m going to cause her to have a stroke.

About 50 minutes ago, she knocks on my door and asks me if I’m going to have a flu jab. I say no because since I’m autistic I don’t socialise. I don’t raise my voice. She immediately starts shouting at me because I’m not agreeing to do what she wants.

This is the sort of thing that happens all the time.

I am sick of her painting me as this abusive person who is making her ill. If I’m really this awful, shouting abuser, how come I live with my DD’s in abject peace. We never argue. Ever. Nobody shouts at each other. This in itself is probably unusual I imagine. But you get what I mean.

If you are the scapegoat you are going to be scapegoated no matter what you do so you may as well do whatever it takes to have your best life which means away from them. Ultimately you have to end all contact with them.

Yes, this is what I have come to understand as well. My uncle thinks that he can help us fix our relationship. My mum doesn’t want anything to change. She just wants someone to tell her that she has the most awful life and how wonderful she is for being able to cope with it. She will always dislike me.

I am not going to be able to go completely NC but I’m thinking of moving maybe far enough that she won’t knock on my door.

Xaviera

The only way you are going to have any semblance of peace here is to have no further contact with your mother and father. Its not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way. Your mother is using you as a scapegoat for all her inherent ills.

Xaviera

re your comment
"I am not going to be able to go completely NC but I’m thinking of moving maybe far enough that she won’t knock on my door."

Why would you not be able to go completely no contact; think about why that is.

At the very least I would move and in addition to this not leave them any forwarding address.