ttc for a year - now he says I'm an abuser

[SnowWhite1985]

My partner and I have been together almost 6 years. We're both 35 (I'm almost 36). About a year and a half ago we took some time away from our relationship (temporarily) because I wanted kids and he didn't (at least for the foreseeable future). Prior to that he'd said he'd be ready in a year, and then the next year said can we wait another year etc. After getting fed up of this, I told him that he needed to tell me straight what he wanted because I didn't think I'd be able to sacrifice having kids to be with him if he didn't want kids. When we were apart (it lasted a couple of months), he spent a lot of time with one of my close female friends, who has a young daughter. He hadn't wanted to split/take time apart, and after spending time with my friend he sent me all these messages begging me to get back together. He said he wanted kids with me so badly and that spending time with this woman and her daughter had made him realise how much he wants to be a dad. He said he was just scared about being a good dad and he wanted us to be in the best position we could be to be parents. At the time the only two friends I told about this thought it was manipulative, as he did a 360 going from "I'm absolutely not ready to have kids right now" to "it's my dream to have kids and please don't take that away from me it's all I want and I want it with you". He said to me that I had taken away his dreams and that his dream was to have kids with me. So we reconciled.

We started ttc almost immediately after that. I started doing all sorts of tests, researching etc to give us the best chance. I have low AMH but all my other tests came back normal. He was reluctant to get tests. He was supposed to be getting sperm tests but put it off and hasn't done it yet. He didn't give me any emotional support or take any interest in my tests etc but I didn't think that was a massive red flag - it just felt a bit lonely so I turned to the wonderful ttc boards on here for support.

Anyway, this month we missed the first two days of my fertile window. My partner - as soon as he knew it was my fertile window - said he was struggling to cope and had to focus on work. He barely talked to me for a couple of days. I asked him if we could try to conceive at least once this cycle and he got upset with me saying he had to prioritise work. After I asked him again what was up and if something bad had happened at work, he said he doesn't want kids right now and that he has to focus on work and can't cope with the pressure of doing "both". I asked what he meant by "doing both" and he said his work and a relationship. He said he never wanted to ttc, but that he thought it was the only way we'd stay together because being "just us" would never be enough for me. He said he wants kids in the (distant) future but not anytime soon because the timing isn't right. He said he can't even focus on our relationship right now never mind kids because he has to focus on work.

Earlier tonight we had a big argument. I was feeling particularly emotional because it's close to my ovulation and it felt like such a missed opportunity. I feel like I'm losing time to ever have kids. And he was barely talking to me which felt like some sort of punishment. In any event, I started off really quite calm, but then I got incredibly upset because he wouldn't look at me and he wouldn't say what he wants or how he feels or where we stand. So I just got more and more frustrated. He ended up not saying very much and I just got upset and talked about my feelings a lot. I did give him plenty of time to talk but then it was just incredibly long, awkward silences. What he did say was that he feels that this relationship was a means to an end for me and that I'm only with him because I want kids. I said isn't it normal to want a family with the person you love and who you're in a long-term committed relationship with? But he said it hurts him that he'll never be enough for me and that I prioritise having kids above our relationship. He said I've made it a condition on us being together and he can't deal with that.

As it became clear to me that he doesn't actually want kids, I said that what he said to me a year ago now felt misleading, and that I felt like he's been stringing me along when it wasn't really what he wanted. He says he meant it at the time but that his feelings fluctuate from day to day. He said sometimes he feels fine with ttc in theory and other times he doesn't and he said in practice it makes him feel physically sick because I'm ready for it and he's not. He wouldn't say when he'd be ready, if ever. I then asked him to describe his ideal life scenario over the next 5-10 years if there were no rush or fertility issues. How he wanted life to be. He then proceeded to describe where he would live, work, success in professional life etc and didn't even mention me or kids.

Anyway, we then took a bit of a time out as he said he didn't know how he felt about me or about having kids with me and that he needed time to think. I just got more and more upset with the silence and the lack of answers. So I went to the kitchen to do the dishes and ended up breaking down sobbing then I threw a glass at the wall. He was upstairs at the time so nowhere nearby. He then told me to leave as he couldn't stand to look at me but I proceeded to clean up the glass. Once I finished cleaning it he said I'm an abusive and violent partner. He asked me again to leave and said he couldn't even look at me right now. So I left. I'm staying in a hotel last night. We live together but I bought the house we stay in - so technically if anyone should leave it should be him. But I also felt really ashamed.

I still have no answers and I haven't heard from him since. He says he definitely wants to be with me but he'd rather it be "just us" for the foreseeable future (or forever because by then it would be too late for me to have kids anyway, which he acknowledges). I suppose he is right to say that I've made our relationship conditional on us having kids. But I don't think it's fair for him to ask or expect me to give up ever having kids just because he doesn't want them right now. He also pointed out that time isn't an issue for him as he can likely have kids into his 50s - so this is an issue for me not him.

In summary, it's all a big fat horrible mess. The conversation, which lasted for hours, was really distressing for me. But I don't feel like he's listened to, or will even acknowledge, anything I've said now - because I threw the glass and I'm now the abuser. I just can't see how we could go from actively ttc a few days ago to this now.

At the same time I feel like I already knew all of this deep down and none of it was a surprise to me. He already showed all of this before he begged me for us to reconcile last time. His actions throughout the ttc also showed me that but I chose to believe his earlier words, which didn't match his actions.

I don't think I do want to be with him if he doesn't want kids with me. I've always thought of relationships as a (potential) family, rather than just being about two people. He seems to think I have to put him first before everything and not want anything myself. I made it clear from when we first met that having a big family was really important to me.

It all feels horrible because now he's acting like I was using him to have kids because that's all that's on my one track mind and it was some sort of plan of mine from the start to use him as a means to an end. He actually said that the relationship was just a means to an end for me and that all I wanted was kids. And he's saying I'm abusive and violent so as to avoid acknowledging any responsibility for his own action. It's like me throwing the glass cancels out everything I've been through for the last few years. Before I threw the glass he acknowledged he'd never been there for me emotionally but said he just didn't have the bandwidth for a relationship most of the time as he can only concentrate and expend energy on one thing (work).

I've found it all incredibly unsettling - I'm starting to feel like I was responsible for this entire argument when in fact he initiated it by completely changing his mind about ttc. I feel so guilty for smashing the glass. He wouldn't look at me afterwards and told me not to come near him or even think about touching him. I felt horrible.

I know we won't talk for a few days at least, possibly weeks, because that's the way he is whenever we have a disagreement. When anything is difficult emotionally he retreats and I'm left wondering where I stand for ages.

But I think the relationship is over. I'm finding it difficult to separate my feelings regarding the relationship from the grief I feel about not becoming a mother anytime in the near future, or perhaps ever at all. It feels like more lost years and that time really is running out for me to ever have children. He's been incredibly distant recently but I just put up with it and tried to focus on other things because I was grateful we were finally ttc. I feel like he's taken that last bit of hope away from me. And so I threw a glass.

Good update OP really glad to read that after his last attempt to feed you a complete pile of bullshit in order to string you along for a while longer you've stayed strong and asked him to move out. Really hope the move out goes smoothly this weekend. Don't backslide!!! Keep moving forward!!!

It is sunday. has he gone?

How are things today op

It's very plain to see that he is stringing you along like a gooden.

This self-centred man only cares about his well-being and it's all at a very high cost to you.

Don't stay with him you will live to regret it forever.

Oh and he only wanted 'romantic' sex with you to sucker you back in because he's scared that you are starting to see his true colours.

...he's the abuser not you - he's trying to put you back exactly where he wants you.

He left yesterday with most of his stuff. He’s gone completely silent now - didn’t talk at all yesterday then left without a word. Which normally would upset me but I actually preferred it - I’m completely exhausted from the whole emotional ordeal. There’s nothing more to say anyway.
I’ve done lots of fitness this weekend which has helped, and I’m thinking through and researching what I do next.
Obviously I will take some time for myself but then time isn’t my friend and at some point I need to decide whether to go it alone or give it a year or so and see if things work out more naturally. I think the problem with the latter option is even if something does develop with someone else, that person would have to be on the exact same page as me in terms of wanting a family relatively quickly. It would seem a lot of pressure to put on a new relationship and what are the chances of that person wanting the exact same things? Even going it alone could take some time so I feel like if I choose that option I need to do it relatively soon. My sister took years to get pregnant (which she ultimately did through IVF), and she was much younger than me at the time. In the meantime I’ve contacted some clinics about getting an AMH and AFC test, as they are the only tests I haven’t had on the nhs. All the NHS hormone ones came back good, but I had a low AMH test result during lockdown. It was one of those cheap home tests that you take your own blood and post though and my doctor said I shouldn’t necessarily trust it’s reliability and should get a proper one at a private clinic. But if my AMH/AFC comes back low, I think I’ll go it alone. I’m actually really annoyed at my partner never getting the sperm test as now I don’t know if the problem was me or him.
Ideally I’d love to be in a committed loving relationship and do everything the more traditional way but I don’t think I can remotely rely on that happening. My friends think I should pursue things with this other guy/mutual friend. But I haven’t seen him for ages because of lockdown. I also feel really guilty even saying that so soon, when I was ttc with my (now ex) partner just a week ago. One of my friends commented that the only time she’d seen me happy and bubbly in the past couple of years was when my partner stood me up an hour before an important black tie dinner and this guy stepped in last minute and sat with me. At the time I felt (guiltily) glad that my partner didn’t show up as he’d been incredibly grumpy with me all week and I was worried it was going to be really stressful. But we all ended up having a lovely time. Being completely honest my partner and I never really had a spark, it was more a friendship which I thought was a solid foundation for a relationship. He always used to say he loved me but that people didn’t get sparks over 30. He said that was immature and we had a more mature love (I realise the irony of this in terms of him not being ready for mature things like having kids or even investing time in the relationship). We never really had much of a physical attraction, I guess, but I convinced myself that was superficial and that even if we had that it eventually fades anyway. However, I always felt sparks with this other guy - firstly because he’s hot (lol) but mostly it was the contrast of him always being so kind to me and interested in anything I had to say. But he’s the sort of person who’s extremely kind to everyone so it’s hard to tell if he likes me specifically because he’s just so lovely generally. I also feel super guilty even writing that - I would have never acted upon anything while we were together, obviously.
It’s hard feeling like I’m back to square one. I’ve felt ready to have a family for so long. I was ready to have kids when I got my first dog (I have 3 dogs) - anyway, he’s 8 now! I think deep down I’ve always known this relationship wasn’t right though - we’ve had some really rough times when I felt horrible. And even when things were good it was sort of mediocre. I’m quite independent and have a lot of interests so I could always busy my time doing other things, but relationships should at a minimum provide emotional support I think, and I’ve never even had that.

I’m glad he’s gone peacefully and you’ve had some time to think.

Please do consider going for some counselling before you start dating again. It will help you get your head straight. It’s too easy to jump from the frying pan into the fire.

There's a hot man who you know likes you, who is kind, single and you enjoy spending time with. Who has almost certainly asked your friend to check if you are free/also interested because he knows your ex bf is a twat. What are you waiting for???????

Well done OP - you should be really proud of yourself.
Things will start happening for you now!!
Wishing you all the very best x

Bugger it, life's so fleeting that I'm going to say throw caution to the wind and give permission for your friends to let the other guy know you've just split up with your partner and see what happens. Because the way you write about him is a million times more animated than anything you've written about your ex! You just never know, but you might kick yourself further down the line for not at least rolling the dice.

But obviously continue on your path of going it alone to have a baby with the tests etc. Good luck!

@Longwhiskers14

Bugger it, life's so fleeting that I'm going to say throw caution to the wind and give permission for your friends to let the other guy know you've just split up with your partner and see what happens. Because the way you write about him is a million times more animated than anything you've written about your ex! You just never know, but you might kick yourself further down the line for not at least rolling the dice.

But obviously continue on your path of going it alone to have a baby with the tests etc. Good luck!

Yeah, this. Someone appears to actually like you (your ex didn't seem to, from what you wrote), so I'd give it a shot.

Give it a shot with the other guy. He sounds like a laugh and it will help your self-esteem no end even if nothing serious comes of it.

I was in an awful relationship for 5 years and I met someone at a party just after I'd got back together with ex for the nth time. I clicked with this guy and nothing has come of it (good reason for that actually) but at that point, and after the final split from ex, he really gave me a boost and made me feel attractive and he put a smile on my face again.

I'd ttc with a donor at this point

I left an abusive ex who also strung me along with never being ready for children whilst also telling me I couldn’t do it on my own and wouldn’t find someone who’d have me

I was just turning 30

I looked at doing it alone within a few weeks

I happened to meet my lovely now DH and have had 2 babies with him and he’s never once strung me along despite being younger than me.
I’m now 35

Good luck with who never route you go sown.
It can be done. You will be so much better off now

@SnowWhite1985 I don't think that, in your case, ttc and starting a new relationship are things you must do in a certain order or in the traditional way. It sounds like you're ready for a baby, so ready in fact that you are very comfortable with the idea of going it alone, and good on you! That baby will be loved and cared for. If in that time, a relationship between you and Mr. Hottie starts to blossom, I don't think that would be a bad thing. In the position you're in now, you're likely to rush into a relationship with the aim of ttc and that could be detrimental to your future. Ttc alone means no future custody battles, no pain of seeing the father of your child betraying you in any way. It also means the man you end up with wants to be with you for all the right reasons. I'm excited for you

It’s nice to hear a positive (post-horrible break up) story @Rebelwithallthecause, thank you.
I think I’m going to:
(i) focus on my health and self esteem. It’s hard because I didn’t tell anyone we were ttc so I’ve been completely isolated in this. The last time my partner and I took a break I told most of my friends (as I thought it was over for good), and almost all of them were pleased and told me they didn’t like him or the way he treated me. Then I think they felt weird about it when we got back together. But the ttc stuff has been completely alone. I didn’t tell a soul. My partner told our mutual female friend (with the young daughter) who he hung out with during our break. So in a sense I have a lot of catching up to do with friends as no one knows what we’ve been going through. I think I might also get counselling because I feel like some of the things that happened may have been emotionally abusive and I don’t want to project any of that into new relationships or my life in general. But at the same time I feel like I’ve been going over and over these issues in my mind for years and I just want to move on. Probably best to talk through it though? Sometimes I feel a lot worse when rehashing it all.
(ii) I’m going to do the extra fertility tests and see what all needs to be done to potentially ttc with a donor. My big dilemma here is who to ask as I don’t think I want an anonymous donor but obviously it’s more complicated with a known donor.
(iii) I might try to see what might come of my potential sparks with the other guy. One issue here is he’s now moved away, as he left at the beginning of lockdown to be closer to his family. He has nephews and nieces and has sent me some pics of them together during lockdown. But we haven’t chatted that much. He contacted me last time my partner and I broke up and we talked a bit about the break then. I didn’t mention the kids stuff though, as I say I haven’t talked about that with anyone.
I’m feeling a bit lonely tonight but no lonelier than I felt in the relationship. I feel sick at all the time that’s been wasted. I actually met the other guy before I met my partner. I liked him as soon as I met him (whereas I didn’t like my partner when I first met him but we later became friends). We were at a friend’s 30th birthday party and ended up talking for hours. But then I found out he had a girlfriend and then I met my partner a couple of months later. I wish things had been different, I feel like I’ve wasted my life and my fertility with my partner. But all I can do is move forward I guess. It’s just a lot of change all at once so a lot to cope with. But hopefully positive changes from here!

Thanks @SuckingDownDarjeeling - I was imagining a scenario where I get artificially inseminated then romance blossoms immediately after and you have to break it to the guy you’re already pregnant - like in that film with Jennifer Lopez - lol

I definitely don’t want to rush into a relationship thinking must have kids with that person. I don’t think that’s healthy and I also don’t think I can go through that again, especially when I would be older and it would almost certainly be my last chance. When I (provisionally) decided to go it alone I felt really empowered and comfortable with the decision, and confident in my capacity to give the baby all the love I could. Then I started thinking about donors, which led me to thinking about “ideal” men, now I feel a bit caught up in thoughts of this other guy. Maybe it’s best not to go down that road again as I have no idea what he wants or what he would think. My friend suggested asking him to be the donor then if we fell in love after it would be great because he’d already be the dad - but I think that is probably a TERRIBLE IDEA!

Caught up with this thread after a couple of days and am delighted you did decide to set the poor benighted soul free . Absolute cheek offering romantic sex the day after he'd thrown you out of your own house saying he can't even look at you - well that was a quick turnaround wasn't it? Anyway, that's all in the past now, as is he, thank goodness.

he left at the beginning of lockdown to be closer to his family. He has nephews and nieces and has sent me some pics of them together during lockdown.

Haha sorry but this just screams 'would love to have a family' to me. And he's telling you that too.

Tell your friend that told you he liked you that you like him too. And see what happens. There's a million ways to ask a guy out and you will still have time to see friends and get counselling. Go on a date - you're not marrying the guy! See how you get on! Going on a date and then another does not stop you from doing anything. It will be easy, or it won't.

Councilling sounds like a brilliant idea op and focusing on yourself for a little bit. I would suggest joining Facebook groups for donor parents as they will have loads of advice and experience and if you do go down that route (which personally sounds to me like a great idea as you said you felt so empowered by the idea of it and then thinking about men has made you question yourself again). It also means if you do have children via a donor you will make friends whose children are also donor conceived so they will grow up not feeling different to everyone else. Also i know its not for everyone but you can always find love again after you have children. Happens to men and women all the time so having a donor baby wont stop you finding a nice man eventually. 2 personal anecdotes from me. One is a friend of mine left an abusive relationship 4 pregnant and then met her now husband whilst she was pregnant they now have other children together. Another person i know had a donor baby very young and is now online dating although she is considering taking a break to have another donor baby and then go back to dating.

Honestly @SnowWhite1985 I feel you’re rushing headlong into fertility treatment when you are only 35. Ok it’s not young but it’s not old either and after all you don’t know that you even have any fertility issues. For us I just assumed it was me and it was DH. I agree it’s a good idea to do a full fertility check especially AMH and AFC and to go to a consultation but aside from that I would focus on reconnecting with friends, reconnecting with this male friend and some counselling/self care. Forget about the donor thing/joining Facebook groups etc. You could always consider whether to go it alone in a years time and see where you are at then.

Well done on getting rid of that useless lump of an ex. Things can only get better from here out.

My friend suggested asking him to be the donor then if we fell in love after it would be great because he’d already be the dad - but I think that is probably a TERRIBLE IDEA!
Yeah, your friend is not a person who has thought through the realities of donor conception at all. He's thinking of something else entirely.

Do spend some time looking into the legal position regarding known donors, if you decide to go down this route - it's considerably more complex than using a sperm bank.

I agree with @Vodkacranberryplease - men move on quickly all the time (£10 says your ex will) and here's a man that you already liked from afar hinting that they're interested now you're unexpectedly back on the market. Go on a date. Also do everything else you were going to do such as have some personal time, see friends, get counselling, research going solo options. But don't rule out a date; it's not a proposal and as the previous poster said, it will either be easy and fun or it won't - in which case you definitely won't be tempted to hang around just to see how it goes

Oh dear @SnowWhite1985... It's like reading my diary from a few years ago.
So, first of all, it is important for you to realise that you are/were in an abusive relationship. In an emotionally abusive relationship. Manipulating, self-centered, lying, emotionally unavailable, making you thinking you're in the wrong, creating feelings of guilt when there shouldn't be, etc., are signs of an emotional abuser, and just to be crystal clear, he is the abuser.

Now, I know you feel you lost time, I feel the same way too, but it's better to think about it like an "investment". You invested, you got in return, experience and strength, and now you will be able to be better prepared for whatever life has to throw at you.

As my grandmama said to me when I was where you are now, "Darling just go to the bank and get what you need! Apparently they offer...male juice now! Just make sure they don't trick you, ask the ones from the freezer!" Oh yes, an 80+yo woman from an other time and era, realised that after what I've been through I would be strong enough to have a child alone! Okay, she didn't really know the details but still...!

You didn't loose time. You gained experience. This help you with your child and with a future relationship.