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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Touching a sleeping partner intimately

198 replies

mummy1428 · 20/07/2019 14:55

My husband has never been delighted with our sex life. I'm fairly unadventurous and our sex is "routine" but in my opinion frequent enough for a couple with two young kids and full time jobs. Last night as we were going to sleep he had a go at me for never touching or kissing him. He maybe had a point but I just told him I was tired and going to sleep. I then woke up at 6.45am with his fingers inside me. I got such a fright and jumped out of bed asking what the fuck he was doing. He claimed he was "trying to wake me up for morning sex". We never have sex in the morning and he would know 100% that I would not want to be woken up by that ever.. or by anything at 6.45am! I truly believe he was just horny and wanted to touch a vagina so he went ahead and did his thing, completely dehumanising me. I don't want to destroy our whole family for this but it has made me feel so sick I don't see how we can move forward. Does anyone have any advice? I should add that he can be quite degrading in other ways too - groping me or making comments about my bum/boobs. He also gets sulky if I am "still" on my period or we haven't had sex for a while. I suspect he pretty much has sex on his mind 24/7. I will never be enough for him in that respect so what do I do?!

OP posts:

Sleephead1 · 20/07/2019 20:24

Im so sorry this happened to you its awful and for all the people who do like it that's your personal choice that I assume you have consented to with your partner the op has not done this and very clearly said her husband knows she wouldn't like it. This happened to me when I was 17 by my friend. We had no sexual relationship and I was asleep alone in his pull out sofa. I went to bed that night and woke up the next morning in pain with his fingers Inside me. I hate the fact I have no idea what happened, how long and always struggle with the fact I don't know why he did it. It must be so much worse if it's your husband the person you love and trust. You have every right to feel the way you do. I hope you are as ok as you can be.

Reallynowdear · 20/07/2019 20:30

Tulio, get some help please

happyhillock · 20/07/2019 20:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster

mummy1428 · 20/07/2019 20:43

Thank you very much for all the responses. I have been struggling to keep up as I have been home all day with my husband and the kids so can't really spend too much time on the phone. We haven't spoken yet but he has cleaned up the spare room and is clearly planning to sleep there tonight which I think is for the best. I am taking the advice of those who said not to rush anything and also considering the comments from those who consider this very serious and also those who are more relaxed about it. It's good to get a mix of opinions from strangers who are not biased in any way. I understand it's just a snapshot of our life but I think that makes your opinions even more valid as you won't be influenced by thinking he is a "good guy" or such like. There are one or two other things that have happened over the years that are little red flags and I do wonder if this would eventually escalate into something worse over time, or will it never happen again. If only I had a crystal ball.

OP posts:

PurpleDaisies · 20/07/2019 20:52

Utterly horrid comment happyhillock. Whether the dh is “sex starved” or not doesn’t justify non-consensual sexual touching.

AnotherEmma · 20/07/2019 20:59

"There are one or two other things that have happened over the years that are little red flags"

Would you be comfortable sharing them? (Feel free to say no of course)

A sexual abuser is usually emotionally abusive too - see the signs of emotional abuse. Does he do (m)any of the things on that list?

Original poster

mummy1428 · 20/07/2019 21:12

@AnotherEmma honestly no I don't think he is emotionally abusive. It really is just a sexual issue. An example of another red flag.. another morning (many years ago). I woke up to the sound of him putting on a condom (I was breastfeeding at that point so not on birth control) and my trousers were pulled down. I was like what are you doing and he said "we were away to have sex"... he acted like I knew all about it but again I was asleep. I responded with something along the lines of "oh were we now" and he stormed off angrily and said "ok no morning sex for me then". Was moody the rest of the day and we never spoke about it again. I don't know if he had touched me yet that day but he clearly intended to! Another red flag (even more years ago, about 5), I innocently found a photo of his penis on his camera roll. It turned out he had been on a website where people find others for casual sex. He claimed he never actually intended to meet anyone and it was just for kicks. I had literally just found out I was pregnant with our first child the week before or I would have walked immediately. We eventually got over it but I've never forgotten how it made me feel. It all just adds up to him caring about his sexual desires more than my feelings. So yes, he is "sex starved" because all of these things over the years have put me off of having sex with him!!

OP posts:

StillMe1 · 20/07/2019 21:18

@Happyhilock Brave post on here. It seems like a DH or DP are not allowed to touch us without a request in triplicate and response in triplicate too.
My DP works odd hours, sometimes he gets home in the early hours and sometimes it is after breakfast time. We like a cuddle at these times and if it goes further that is fine too.
We are not married but that makes no difference really. For those who are married what about the vows made.
I don't know why women are so up in arms about a partner/husband touching them. Sometimes my DP tries to creep into bed quietly but if I am spreadeagled all over the bed he has to try to move me to get space to sleep.
Sexual contact is not a thing to use as a bargaining point. It is an expression of love. The day I would not want a DH or DP or BF touching me I would think it time to make changes.

PurpleDaisies · 20/07/2019 21:24

I don't know why women are so up in arms about a partner/husband touching them. Sometimes my DP tries to creep into bed quietly but if I am spreadeagled all over the bed he has to try to move me to get space to sleep.

That is absolute not the same situation and you know it.

Luckingfovely · 20/07/2019 21:24

Oh @mummy1428 I'm so sorry but it just gets worse and worse the more you tell us. I am feeling utterly horrified that you are in this situation (and very sad that we have yet another one of these stories on here). Please don't minimise this, he sounds like he has proper form, and is only getting worse and more aggressive with his demands and wants. I wish you strength and luck to manage this horrible situation, and to hopefully create a better and safer life.

And oh god - the website for the casual sex? But he didn't do anything? He can really make you believe anything, it seems.

oh and lastly, not apologising to @Tulio* for sounding angry - I still am, minimising what happened to you is unforgivable.

PurpleDaisies · 20/07/2019 21:24

Sexual contact is not a thing to use as a bargaining point. It is an expression of love

Usually expressions of love work best when the other person is conscious.

PurpleDaisies · 20/07/2019 21:26

For those who are married what about the vows made.

Which vows are those that mean husbands can sexually assault their wives while they are asleep?

Luckingfovely · 20/07/2019 21:28

@StillMe1 fucking unbelievable. You can not compare consenting sexual contact to non-consenting sexual contact.

How difficult is that for you to understand?

And from your post, nobody thinks you are sexually free or expressive, they think you are endorsing rape. Just in case you wondered.

Original poster

mummy1428 · 20/07/2019 21:29

@Luckingfovely thank you for your comments, I hear you. I should add that I didn't necessarily believe him about the sex site - I went and got tested and everything. It was a difficult time for us. His friend had just died so he was "not himself" (or at least that wasn't the him I knew at the time). I made the decision to forgive and forget and I did a good job of it. But these things happening do make me think back to everything else he has done. We have been together 15 years I might add. It's a difficult situation.

OP posts:

Luckingfovely · 20/07/2019 21:38

It's completely horrific and beyond difficult. But you sound incredibly sensible and brave given what you're going through. I know you have a tough time ahead of you working through all of this, but I have a feeling you will work it out and secure a happier life, in whatever form you choose to make it x

BIWI · 20/07/2019 21:38

Jesus fucking Christ:

@Happyhilock Brave post on here. It seems like a DH or DP are not allowed to touch us without a request in triplicate and response in triplicate too

Of course they can, as long as it's consensual

My DP works odd hours, sometimes he gets home in the early hours and sometimes it is after breakfast time. We like a cuddle at these times and if it goes further that is fine too

Lovely. Presumably you're both awake at this point in time?

We are not married but that makes no difference really. For those who are married what about the vows made

This makes not a jot of difference

Making room to sleep is a completely, completely different thing from shoving his fingers up your chuff!

Sexual contact is not a thing to use as a bargaining point. It is an expression of love. The day I would not want a DH or DP or BF touching me I would think it time to make changes

Sexual contact is not always an expression of love. In many cases, like a lot of those described by some here, it's about power, control and the man's desire overriding anything that his female partner might want.

If your self esteem is so low that this what you will endure because you believe it's an expression of love, then I'm very sad for you.

barnyb · 20/07/2019 21:39

I'd tell him to fk offff!!!!! That's so out of line!

boymum9 · 20/07/2019 21:40

@mummy1428 I really have to add that the red flags are all very similar things I experienced, we were also together a similar length of time.

Only you know how your relationship is truly, no one can make sweeping suggestions about what you should do that you can completely take on board because no one but you knows the ins and outs.

Take your time, we spent 3 months where he slept in the spare room, we went to counselling, and in the end the decision was made to separate properly and him move out, I didn't rush the decision based on him touching me, your outcome may be different.

Haffiana · 20/07/2019 21:46

@StillMe1 I am not reporting your post because it would be deleted. I think it should stand there so that everyone can see exactly what a rape apologist looks like.

MarianaMoatedGrange · 20/07/2019 21:56

Sexual contact is not a thing to use as a bargaining point. It is an expression of love

A man sticking his fingers in a sleeping woman's vagina is no way an expression of love.Married or not. It's abuse.

Haffiana is correct.

RhubarbTea · 20/07/2019 21:58

I don’t know what I’m more shocked at ..what happened to the op or the apologists on here

This. Fucking gell this thread is something else.

Op I hope you have some local support as well, a friend you can tell etc. I would leave someone if they did this to me. It's assault.

Orlandointhewilderness · 20/07/2019 22:01

My DP and I regularly wake each other up for sex. I will wake to find him touching my breasts or bum etc and I do the same to him, completely asleep. He touches me a lot through the day and we often have a quick snog and a grope. The difference is, I like it and if I ever didn't want it to continue then it wouldn't be an issue. To be touched like that, asleep, and with knowing you don't want it is sexual assault.

StillMe1 · 20/07/2019 22:06

There is no way that I would be a rape apologist. It is something I feel very strongly about and I don't think rapists, even when it does go to Court and a sentence handed out, is sufficient punishment.
What I am saying is that I would never get upset at DP for touching me asleep or not. He is not one to try to force me into anything. I would be very angry if he did. We have been together for probably less time than OP but we have talked and discussed what is acceptable to both of us.
I have never had anyone stick their finger anywhere while I was asleep. That is going too far.

The OP has said that her DH is not greatly happy with their sex life. She also said that she is unadventurous. If the DH is doing stuff like this I do think the relationship has to be looked at. I dont know if making changes would stop her DH doing these things which annoy her but I honestly think their boundaries need to be looked at.

Mycatatetherat · 20/07/2019 22:07

"I imagine that is why after 20years we are still married"
I would imagine the reason you're still married after 20 years is because you and your husband don't abuse each other @Anotherusefulname

StillMe1 · 20/07/2019 22:10

I have now read that the OP and her DH have been together 15 years. I would expect the couple to be able to read each other and know when to make a move or when to just have a cuddle.
This makes me think all the more that the relationship needs looking at

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