"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's February 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Well I have the stamp of Atilla so it must be true. You're a wonderful person, I lurk more than I read and I am grateful to you. and others that I meet here, all so brave.

It helped to write it down and now be firm with myself if my thoughts go there.

Thanks so much.

Hi ampersand. Can't stay long as gotta go to work soon. Just wanted to say that I think you've done the right thing. Your sister seems to have internalized her own parents' behaviour .....Plus ! It feels as though she's been manipulating you to get her own emotional kicks. And now she can't. Your poor DN if she copies this as well.
Stay away. You have your own lovely family now. I realise now that focussing overmuch on my birth family's shit meant that I didn't give enough time and attention to my own DH. Luckily he's had a similar tale and has hung on in there. Am definitely re-focussing on him now.
hugs]]

Hi, I've posted on this thread in the past but have avoided it since then as I've been in a bad place and struggling and found it too upsetting. Right now though I'm feeling stronger than ever - after 34 years of my parents, and especially my fathers, bullshit I have finally had enough and will not be taking it any more. I'm starting counselling with MIND for the first time next week - it's something I've needed for a long time, and actually when I met with a counsellor earlier this week for an assessment meeting she said I "desperately" needed it. That in itself was such a huge validation for me, that I'm not just overreacting and being the bitch I was always painted as but genuinely suffering as a result of their actions.

I've also finally made the decision I've always wanted to make but been too afraid to - I'm going NC with my father. I've already seen and spoken to him for the last time ever, he doesn't know that yet. But enough is enough now! He emotionally abused me right from early childhood, escalating to weeks of silent treatment at a time when I was a teenager and started to argue back at his bullying ways and he dragged the rest of my family into that as well which was the start of anxiety and depression that I have suffered from for going on 20 years now. In my late teens and early twenties I was too crippled with depression to get my life going and move out of their house as I'd always planned but he wanted rid of me, so he started to tell lies about me, saying I'd broken this or that around the house, damaged furniture, pulled up my mother's flowers in her garden until after a few years of this she snapped and basically threw a suitcase at me and screamed at me to get out. I had no job, money, friends, anywhere to go at the time - he didn't care, he wanted me out on the street and for no reason whatsoever. I was very ill with depression and anxiety and basically hid from everyone all the time, avoiding contact with everyone as I'd become so riddled with shame and self disgust as a result of years of feeling hated by my own family, so it's not even as though there'd been some argument or incident that caused him to want me gone. I listened crying in my bedroom as he told my mother in his fake kind voice that I'd done loads of things to him that he hadn't told her about because he didn't want to upset her. He then went to my brothers bedroom and fed him the same story. It was such a hugely traumatic experience for me and now, over a decade later, it still plays on my mind. I try not to, but I think of it at least once a day every day. Sometimes I get just as hysterical and upset about it as I was on that day, hiding away and crying in secret and not telling anyone because I'm still so very ashamed.

I left home and went back several times over the following years and he was always the same when I was there, going off on one for the slightest reason, ignoring me, ignoring my mother if she showed me the slightest kindness like buying me some coke to drink over the Christmas break. Throwing plates at the wall if she complained about how he treated me. It's only since I've left home for good since meeting my now DH that all that has stopped. Now every now and then we visit them or they visit us and there's this fake cordiality. He puts on this act of being the nice guy, and I know it's to try to fool my husband into not believing a word I say about him. My husband does believe me now but for the longest time insisted that he seems like a nice man and had trouble picturing him doing the things he's done. Nowadays my father is much more passive in his nastiness, dressing it up so that he can be shitty with me but in such a way as to make it seem like I'm misunderstanding. For example, when I told him DH and I had gotten engaged he said "Never! Now, what exactly do you mean by engaged?" He knows damn well what the word engaged means, he'd always known with everyone else including my brother. With me it was a reason to avoid saying congratulations or anything else nice that a parent should say. I KNOW that's the case but DH had a hard time believing it and said he would play devils advocate and suggest maybe I had gotten that wrong. I'm now pregnant, and when we discussed it with my parents for the first time he said as they were leaving, "let us know if anything goes wrong". I was furious and hurt because I know him and know what he meant by that - that he wanted something to go wrong, because he can't stand the thought of my being happy and things going right for me. When we'd had our 20 week scan I called them to let them know all was well and that it was a boy. Ordinarily he would pass the phone to my mother almost immediately if he was the one to answer, but this time he tried to delay it, because I was tired and sounded it, and was frankly pissed off that he had answered and not her. He was trying to get me to tell him that they had found something wrong, tell him directly instead of speaking to my mother, so he could take pleasure in that. He said "what's wrong? You sound sad!" But he said in in this super jolly tone - he thought he heard sadness in my voice and was fucking delighted and couldn't hide it!! Again I was furious and just felt again like I was a little girl powerless in the face of this man who was looming over her and shouting. Again DH insisted - despite believing me about the past - that I must have gotten it wrong. But I know I didn't. I KNOW.

I already knew that I would never leave any baby I had in his care, but lately I've realised that I can't stand the thought of him having any contact with my baby whatsoever. In my eyes, he wishes my baby harm because he hates me that much. How could he ever be trusted? The thought of introducing my baby to him, placing him in his arms, having him grow up calling him Grancha and loving him like my nephew does - I have been so ill over the past few weeks and months with all this on my mind. This is what has pushed me to finally say, that's enough. I can't risk my baby in any way, and I can't spend the rest of my life waiting for the next passive aggressive comment or behaviour that no one sees but me. So that's it! He's gone.

My problem now is the rest of my family. I considered very seriously cutting my mother out too because in her own way she's been cruel to me too over the years. She had her special ways of cutting me down and stripping me of all confidence. She can be so very thoughtless and hurtful too - when I told her I was having a boy her immediate reaction was "aw, why couldn't you have a girl?". And she was never, ever there for me growing up, never came to parents evening or school plays I was in, never backed me up with problems with other kids and blamed me for years for my relationship with my father. Everything he said about me - she never even thought to question it. Not until he started doing the same thing to my golden child brother once I had left home for the first time, at which point she admitted she had been wrong and apologised. One time when I was a teenager she asked me why I had a problem with him, and I thought I was going to finally have a reasonable and calm conversation at last. I said "he's a bully" and she literally laughed in my face. She had to cover her mouth with her hand to stop herself from spitting tea everywhere. End of conversation. But at the same time she would periodically complain to me about her own problems with him and told me she would leave him if she had anywhere to go. To this day I am really angry with her for not doing so. Especially after she admitted that she knew she had been wrong and knew I hadn't done everything he accused me of. As far as I know she's never even confronted him about that. Part of me hates her for sticking with him even after realising the extent of his abuse towards me - he has suffered absolutely no consequences for what he did while I had spiralled even further into depression and anxiety and I think complex PTSD too. The trauma of what he did has affected every single aspect of my life. It really destroyed me and I feel I missed out on my twenties at least because what I would have gone on to do I couldn't do as a result of the mental illness he caused. Yet she stands by his side even today and this is the only reason he has been in my life - to continue a relationship with her has meant I've had no choice but to continue one with him. Having him sit in my house, having to make him coffee and ask him if his cold is better and give him birthday and Christmas presents like everything is normal and happy has made me sick, and has made me think less of myself for going along with it.

The thing is, I pity her too much. She has been cruel to me but she has also been his victim just like I have been. He has manipulated her and driven a wedge between her and me, and I attribute a lot (not all) of her past meanness to her lashing out at the negative feelings he has given her. She is a weak person and has literally no one else in the world apart from her kids and him. She is lonely and has huge regrets and though she's pretty terrible at it, she does now make an effort to be a decent mother. It would hurt her so much if I cut her out, and then I would have to live with the guilt of having done that.

So now I have to tell her. You're welcome, he's not. I'm going to do this over the next few weeks when we see each other without him. In a way I'm dreading it, but I'm also looking forward to it so much! Having decided that I've already seen and spoken to him for the last time, I feel so liberated and happy! I feel I can finally start moving forward and overcoming the issues that have held me down. It's not going to be easy to tell her, and I'm already anticipating the argument. I'm just rehearsing it now, keeping it short and to the point and being firm and not allowing it to dissolve into a massive row. I am fully prepared to walk away from her too if she decides to be nasty about it, which she may although I doubt she will. I've reached the end of my tether and have taken all I'm willing to take. Acknowledging that feels absolutely fucking amazing!

My brother - I don't know what will happen there. He was the golden child and I feel was brainwashed against me growing up, which I don't blame him for. We haven't ever had the relationship I wish we did and I doubt we ever will now, but he is in my life albeit sporadically and there is mutual fondness there. We've never discussed any of this, and as far as I know he still believes that I did everything my father said I did, and that I was responsible for the bad blood between us. He has suffered himself from mental health issues which stem at least in part from the atmosphere in our house growing up. We have previously discussed our anger at our parents failings, although never in any real detail, and he has turned towards religion at this point in his life which is giving him I think a sense of family and community that was always lacking in his life. He shows a lot of respect to the honour your mother and father thing and does sometimes go a little overboard in showing this, particularly towards my father, buying him ridiculously expensive presents that he can't really afford for example, taking him on trips for the two of them etc. Every now and then he hints at me that he thinks I don't see our parents as much as I should, says things like I will regret it when they're gone etc. I always ignore this. I could easily get into an argument and say actually, I regret every moment of my life I've ever given that abusive asshole, but he had such a different relationship with him growing up, I'm afraid this would drive a wedge between us that could not be overcome. Once he finds out about my cutting my father out it may still drive a wedge between us, but while I don't want that I'm not afraid of it anymore. The whole family dynamic has always been very toxic for me and I've never had anyone on my side. I've clung to them all as I've been so afraid to be alone, but it's starting to hit home now that that's no longer the case. My husband is on my side, as is his lovely family. And now my baby - I have a responsibility to him to protect him from harm, and if that means losing contact with all of my family instead of just the instigator, so be it. I think of the song Defying Gravity from Wicked - there's a line that goes "too long I've been afraid of losing love I guess I've lost, well if that's love it comes at much too high a cost". That's really all there is too it! I hope my mother and brother stick around - if they choose not to, then that's their choice and I will go on and thrive without them. I'm done sacrificing myself for the sake of pretending we're a normal family.

(Most massive post ever!!)

Hi Swinkle

I hope MINDs counselling next week proves useful to you. You certainly need to find someone who fits in with your approach.

Read up on FOG - fear, obligation and guilt. You have made progress but you could be still stuck on obligation not just to say fear. The resources at the start of this thread are well worth reading as well.

You may find this resource re going no contact helpful outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/no-contact

Reading about boundaries may also prove helpful to you as well as the resources at the start of this thread.

It is to your credit that you will keep your as yet unborn child away from your dad. To my mind at least you all need to stay well away from all your family of origin and be in no contact with any of them as of now. It may well be that your mother and your golden child enmeshed brother will take your Dad's side. She is weak and has failed you abjectly as a parent also. She has failed to protect you from her abusive H for her own reasons, mainly those of her own self interest. She has always had a choice and she chose herself over you.

If your DHs relations are nice concentrate on them. Your child needs positive and emotionally healthy role models around him. Your family of origin are none of those things.

Not been sure about posting but maybe some of you might have opinions? My DB has recently started to talk to me about historic childhood abuse. How can I help him? I have suggested counselling and professional support. He is very anti- outside family help, professional help etc as according to him no-one understands what it's like. I think this is his massive fear of rejection talking but how can I help him without shoving my own experiences on him which I don't think would be helpful. I'm very aware that we were treated extremely differently and I was a 'golden child' used to make him seem worse. I've apologised to him for being too much of a coward to speak up. This I think has encouraged him to talk more with me but I don't want to lose this new closeness with putting my foot in it saying the wrong thing! It's brought up some stuff for me, particularly as he's also talking to DM who is then telling me all from her own very defensive perspective and who I worry will tell the perpetrator possibly starting stuff up again esp as DB has gotten onto a kind of even keel with them and would be devastated. DB unfortunately thinks in black and white so DM is an angel as she would spoil him to counteract perp's 'devil.' Yay for me being stuck in the middle with my own ishoos to deal with too

Those who have talked with sibilngs - what has helped? What is really unhelpful?

@swinkle, poor you what a hideous father he sounds I think your visceral reaction to the thought of him near your baby is your guide. well done going nc with him. I would worry though if your mum is weak as you say that he will manipulate her to getting access to your child say if she were minding him. Focus on your new wee family and the loving, nurturing way you will bring him up. your mum doesn't deserve access to this she sounds cruel allowing you to take his crap perhaps so she didn't have to.

I've found parenting hard at times, hard to believe how cruel and nasty my Dm was especially when eg dd 9 thinking of things that happened to me at 9. I'm sure you will be a wonderful, thoughtful parent as many of us who were damaged by childhood are. Best of luck with the rest of pg xxx

If you were my mother, why would you do the following?

Quick background - she's in her 70's, golden child still lives at home, rent and bill free. Very unpleasant and bossy towards me and other sibling. Nothing good enough, etc etc,

Anyway. My sibling is very interested in sports - watching, playing and is captain of local team. He has little available money as he does not work (he does not need to as everything is bought for him).

He has 2 special T shirts that he keeps when playing in this local team. I don't think the trousers/shorts he wears are particularly important but it seems these T shirts are. I couldn't say if they have the local team name on or are just good quality.

Tonight my mother told him she has burned them on the fire. There was no argument or cross words leading up to this and he is not sure when she did it, she only told him when he could not find them.

She has form for this. If we had favourite items of clothing as children, she would cut them up into squares for the rag bag. Dad's clothes were often to be found in a bonfire outside.

Why would you target clothes in particular? She also threw away things were fond of, including a collection I had pieced together over many years - into the bin on bin day so I had no chance to retrieve it. Again with no reason at all.

Thanks makealist. So true about losing focus on what is really important to me. Ironically it was only when I met him and my mother was nasty to him for no reason, that I began to see the light. I have a lot to be grateful for. Thanks all.

Good luck with the counselling swinkle. Hopefully together you can work out some kind of practical plan on how to deal with the relationships in your life without compromising your boundaries. Lots of luck.

Frith, same sort of behaviour from my mother. In fact my earliest memory is coming hom from playgroup, I was about 2 and a half or 3, going up to my room to find my toys had been given away. I had a chalkboard shaped like a train which I loved and remembered making marks on it and trying to draw and write. She'd got rid of it. My earliest memory was crying on the landing outside my room and thinking "this isn't right"

I suspect a few of my belongings went the way of the bin. I had a handmade Piglet exactly like the one in Winnie the Pooh made of coral felt that I got from a jumble sale. Looking back it was a work of art, the way it was pieced together. It disappeared one day, never saw it again.

I don't know why they do it, but they see that these things give you pleasure or comfort and they can't tolerate it.

Hi all, have lurked a while and wanted to let confused know that feeling nobody will understand is actually a symptom of ptsd.

I have looked at this thread a few times - I grew up with a father who sexually, physically and emotionally abused me and a mother who saw nothing. I was never loved or supported as a child. A few really nasty events - but they did, in fact, take us to stately homes.....

I've been nc for many years. But it never really goes away.

However, I am now in the throes of a relationship split. Been together 7 years, living together etc. I am buying a new house so as soon as it all goes through I am offski (currently living in the spare bedroom).

But the interesting thing is, just revisiting this thread and reading the quotes in the OP (I read that book many years ago) - nearly ALL of those 'excuses' by parents have been used by the ex. Notably, last weekend in an email exchange "you seem to have forgotten that I brought you tea in bed".

I knew he was an emotionally abusive fuckwit but this has really hammered home 1) how much he is and 2) how we seem to seek out the same bloody people as our parents no matter what we do!

Anyway, I have had gallons of counselling and currently seeing a psychotherapist to try to break this cycle.

It was just interesting that it was so much the same.

confusedsibling1

He is lucky to have you, so just be there for him to talk to. My own 'D'B (with whom I am now also nc, he was the golden child) when I told him about the abuse, said, "that would never stand up in court" - I had not said anything about going to court. So, don't do that :)

Counselling would probably help him, it's OK to agree with him that other people won't understand - no-one can know how anything ever feels for anyone else, but they can help him come to terms with it, accept it is not his fault, maybe move on a bit - with CBT maybe look at how his own behaviour has developed as a result of the abuse and consider how to adjust it if necessary.

Hey, I was directed here by a few people from the thread I started about my parents.

I went to the GP on Wednesday and got an urgent referral for counselling and he gave me some anti depressants. My first telephone consultation is on Tuesday.

I'm really struggling with the concept of going NC. I'm starting to convince myself that it's all in my head, that it wasn't that bad, and that I'm being ridiculous if I make a big deal of it. I don't know how to get over that? I mean, I've gone my entire life seemingly not being bothered about what my parents were like, does it seem stupid that it bothers me now?

Hi Ubiquity,

You are really low contact with your parents because of the Christmas cards etc. No contact is precisely that; there is no communication of any kind. Also I would argue that the low contact is not working out.

re your comment:-

"Anyway I'm looking at reestablishing contact as a kind of trial - partly because she genuinely doesn't treat her DGC this way because, being male, they are perfect and partly because I can't have a meaningful relationship with my father otherwise, purely logistically. I've discussed this at length with my psych and he suggests starting with a strict "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" rule with a reserve arsenal of "why do you hate me so much?"

If she can't stick to the completely reasonable rule, I can go to reserve. If that doesn't stop her, I can draw a line without guilt".

I think you should draw a line now without guilt anyway; what have you got to feel guilty for. The people who did this feel no ounce of guilt whatsoever towards you. Their ideas re male children are wrong on all levels. Do not expose them to more manipulation. Your dad is far more afraid of her and such weak men as well need someone like your mother to idolise.

I would not, repeat not, put your children anywhere near either of them. They were not good parents to you, they are not good grandparent figures to your children either and will damage them in not too dissimilar ways to how you have been yourself harmed. None of what your pysch has advised you to say to them will work at all on these disordered people; that may work with emotionally healthy people but not your parents. The rulebook of familial relations gets thrown out when it comes to dysfunctional families. Toxic people like nothing more than a fight and the last word; those types of responses will give them both and you have provided the ammo.

Your parents both failed you utterly and your father is your mother's weak willed bystander and enabler. He failed you also by failing to protect you from the excesses of his wife's behaviours.

People like your mother disregard boundaries, well trample over them actually and your father will enable her in doing so. I really would not open that Pandora's box.

CAC

You perhaps feel like you do now because you would never treat your children in the ways you were treated by your parents.

Your parents, particularly your father, should be in prison for what they did to you. Your mother colluded in the abuse and enabled it by turning a blind eye to her H's behaviours towards you. They will likely repeat similar behaviours with your children so you will ultimately need to put physical as well as mental distance between they and you by being no contact. I would also consider moving house particularly as you live near them. They were not good parents to you (an understatement) and they are not good grandparent figures to your children.

I sincerely hope the counselling is helpful to you. I would also consider contacting NAPAC napac.org.uk/

Hi, I'm back. I posted under the username JustaGirl484 but left MN thinking I needed time off. I probably did but I was foolish to delete my account. I still need support here.

UbiquityTree a fellow personality disorder sufferer here. My T said the same thing to me. I think I feel guilty when I talk about my dad because the truth is he didn't abuse me all the time. Often, but not daily. And I see a side of my dad that wasn't an abusive monster.. Yet at same time what he did hurt so much and still hurts. and he still doing it to those who live with him now...(DSIS and DM)

UbiquityTree I also have been diagnosed with BPD, ED and possible CPTSD. My childhood involved verbal, emotional and physical abuse from my dad and also sexual abuse from various different people at different stages of my childhod and badly bullied by my peers. I wasn't relly neglected except emotionally, I suppose, although to be honest I am thinking that there may be ways in which i was harmed without having considered it real harm. I am still getting to grips with what i went through tbh

Hey UbiquityTree and ImBackOnHereAgain. I also have an ED and a (C-)PTSD, and when I was younger was diagnosed with BPD, although I'm not sure if that diagnosis was ever really correct.

I can't get my head around NC. I tell my friend who has an abuse past that she doesn't have to keep being nice to her mum, or to be in any contact, but I can't take the advice myself.

I've been having a bad day. ED relapse, anxiety and hormones. A phone call from my mum really seemed to push my mood over the edge. She was being perfectly nice, I guess, but kept trying to ask about personal details that I didn't want to go into with her, and that, and feeling like I need to pretend to be okay, and all the abuse thoughts going round my head... well it's not a pretty mess. The thing is though, I know if she knew her phone calls upset me, she would feel bad. And then she'd cry. And then I'd cry. And then I'd try to say and do anything to make it all better.

I don't remember her ever crying when I was a child. She got angry, not sad, as far as I could tell. She seemed to start with the crying around the same time as I moved away from home. I hate it when she cries.

Perhaps not the right thread but I need to explore this so please direct elsewhere if there's a better place for it.

I have a strange relationship with my parents whereby I feel like I have to push my children on them for them to have any form of relationship. They are invested heavily in my sister and her children/family dynamics. I'm not going to say I was the perfect daughter and recent events have certainly established that. But others have simply seen that as a cry for attention 😳. Dh is certainly very supportive when I would easily have expected him to just walk away.

But I feel lately this is having an impact on how I parent my own kids and is it too late to change? Eldest is nearly 9 and recently I feel all I have done is become angry/shouty mum. I don't want this. It's not healthy for me or the children. I don't want them to think of their childhood as grown ups and have feelings like those I have with my parents, that they couldn't be there for me, didn't listen to me. I attend parenting course. Fgs I look after other people's children! (Volunteer work).

But more and more my experience weighs heavily on me and the impact it is going to have on my family.

Hi minisoks,

re your comment:-
"I have a strange relationship with my parents whereby I feel like I have to push my children on them for them to have any form of relationship. They are invested heavily in my sister and her children/family dynamics. I'm not going to say I was the perfect daughter and recent events have certainly established that. But others have simply seen that as a cry for attention"

I imagine that your parents are not interested really in you and by extension your own family either. You have tried to get them to notice you all but you cannot create something out of nothing.

No-one is perfect and I would think you have actually behaved as a "normal" daughter would do. Did your parents ever accuse you of being a difficult child now adult?. Did they say things like, "after all we have done for you?". Have you recently become angry with them because of their behaviours towards you when younger?.

What does your H think of your parents and sister?.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. What is your parent's assigned role to you in your family of origin?. You write that they have heavily invested in your sister and her children; I am wondering if she is the golden child here while you are the scapegoat. This type of dynamic often happens in narcissistic family structures.

BACP are good and do not charge the earth; I would seriously consider talking through all this with a therapist.

but I can''t take the advice myself ProzacandWinePlease Same here. I cannot take my own advice. I am still scared of my DF. Less so than before but still way too much. He has a hold on me somehow.