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"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

(1001 Posts)
oneplusone Sat 01-Mar-08 14:10:21

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

oneplusone Sat 01-Mar-08 14:17:30

I have been at a bit of a loss recently as to how to move forward. I felt my previous counsellor had reached the end of how much he could help me but i was wary of trying to find another counsellor especially after Alice Miller emphasises the importance of finding the right counsellor ie one who has 'worked through' all his/her own childhood issues.

I think i may have found someone, although i haven't spoken to her yet, but from her profile she sounds like the right sort of person.

So, i feel a bit more positive today. I feel like i have a lot of pent up feelings and emotions inside but i can't let them out as there is nobody i can talk to who i feel will understand me. I do find writing things down helps enormously but i think i also need to talk to somebody.

Anyway, i hope you are all doing ok, and i hope somebody finds this thread soon!

kaz33 Sat 01-Mar-08 14:31:03

Found it smile

You obviously have reached a blockage in yourself. I think it is two steps forward, one step back. Maybe you need a break, could you spend the money that you were spending on counselling on something personal - maybe yoga, ta chi, meditation etc... Then return to the counselling renewed and ready for the fight ahead.

I am doing the Hoffman process in less than three weeks and you have a whole raft of very intense pre-process work to do. That has opened up some interesting stuff ie: I am not the person that I think I am - I have copied my fathers aloof and critical behaviour in order to get him to love me and rebelled against all of my mums stuff. The effect has been that I have been sabotaging my own life - the only person I have been hurting is myself sad. Felt very stupid and small last night when I had this revelation.

oneplusone Sat 01-Mar-08 14:45:43

Hi, glad you made it here!

I have heard about the Hoffman process, your DH did it iirc? I will be very interested to hear all about it (if you don't mind) once you have done it. I'm not surprised you have to do lots of work yourself beforehand. I have found this whole process to be so deep rooted, i am constantly thinking i am nearly there, nearly at the 'end' and then i find another layer of 'stuff' underneath what i thought was going to be the last layer.

It definately is 2 steps forward and 1 step back, but i am finding it easier to deal with as i go along as i understand far better what i am going through now than i did even a few months ago.

I have ordered each and every one of Alice Miller's books as i find her work amazingly insightful. Am off to read a bit more now. Hope the others find their way here soon!

oneplusone Sat 01-Mar-08 14:50:07

Kaz, i know what you mean about copying one parent's behaviour and rejecting another parent's, and ending up sabotaging yourself. That is what i was doing without realising it. I think the key is find your own 'true' or 'authentic' self and that person is just you and you alone where you are not copying other people. But that is so much easier said than done.

bearsmom Sat 01-Mar-08 15:32:30

Hi Oneplusone and Kaz, glad a new thread has been started. I'd be lost without it! I haven't posted for a while but have been reading avidly. Christmas was a bit of a flashpoint for me but things have been fairly peaceful since then. My mother sent ds a birthday present, but has left us alone apart from that. I must be getting better because Mother's Day only impacts on me now in the sense that I am one, I don't really think about the fact that I have one too because I've accepted she didn't mother me in the way I needed and has been such a destructive force in my life that I'm far better off without her. It's only rarely that I think, for a split second, "I want my mum", and then I remember what she's like and don't want her anymore! I'm not sure how I've come to be at peace about this, but I think it's mainly this thread and books like Toxic Parents and some of Alice Miller's work that have helped me to see things from a different perspective. And for me distance from her (i.e. no face-to-face or verbal contact, just birthday and Christmas cards) has been the key to how much better I feel about myself these days. I have in the back of my mind that this year I may agree to meet up with her, but I know from what my sister has occasionally said that my mother is still expecting me to apologise and go back to being a "normal" part of the family, including seeing my father (that's never going to happen), but I think I'll need to see her again at some point, I think because I want to test myself to see whether I really have come as far as I think I have. Now I've written this, I'm wondering if that's a bit masochistic, will have to think on it a bit.

I too will be interested to hear about the Hoffman process. I read the book (can't remember the name now, by someone called Philip Lawrence I think??) and loved all but a very small part of it. It made so much sense.

Anyway, hope everyone is well. x

matildax Sat 01-Mar-08 16:33:20

hello, i have found it too!! smile
to ally, thankyou for your post to me on the end of the last thread, i think last night i was just so very very emotional, and reading through the thread, and recognising myself in all of you, some more than others, was really strange. i went to bed and cried my eyes out, well into the early hours!!
my love to you all, you really are inspirational, and by the sounds of it, very very strong. look forward to posting again soon xx

AttilaTheMeerkat Sat 01-Mar-08 16:38:39

Hi Ally

Re your question to me:-
"Your mother treating your brother as the favourate isn't new I presume?"

Yes you're right, this has been going on for years now and particularly since I left home.

ally90 Sat 01-Mar-08 16:41:07

Over here! or I will be a billy no mates

Hi Matildax, glad your finding your feelings

Attila...know any reason why she would treat your brother as favourate?

NAB3wishesfor2008 Sat 01-Mar-08 16:44:08

I hate mother's day.

All I can think about is how my mother will be feeling so sad that she has got nothing from me and that it is all my fault. Not that I care about her btw but am sick of being the bad guy.

Still trying to work out what it is she did for me when she said all that was done was done for me.

ally90 Sat 01-Mar-08 16:47:52

Hi Nab

I presume it was your mothers behaviour which drove you away in the first place? She is responsible for her actions, not you.

New thread here

This is soooooo going to confuse, I should have left you in charge oneplusone!

NAB3wishesfor2008 Sat 01-Mar-08 16:49:27

I never lived with her from 15 months but when I have had ocntact I certainly haven't wanted anymore. Not seen her now for 15 years but she still is causing trouble.

AttilaTheMeerkat Sat 01-Mar-08 16:55:43

Hi Ally

When I was at home I was the eldest good daughter and thus trusted and or left to get on with it. My younger Brother was at that time far more of a handful (used to argue with and or shout at my Mother) and be very demanding, if he said jump they'd say how high. This continues to this day. They still run around after him, my Mother still cleans his house (that all started when she originally moved to my hometown, my Dad was still working full time and she was thus stuck at home bored silly with nothing to do all day. Instead of getting a job and a life, she decided to clean my brother's house). Actually I get on okay with my Brother but I don't see him very often these days.

Think my Mother feels sorry for him as he lives (unsurprisingly) on his own.

Your thoughts are welcome. I gave up on them frankly a long time ago and now have no expectations at all. Easier that way.


ally90 Sat 01-Mar-08 17:16:54

Oneplusone - you are now in charge grin naturally my setting up another thread was a bit silly blush

Attila - okay so you are the 'capable' one and 'able to look after yourself' whereas brother 'needs looking after'. I guess your brother reminds your mother of someone in her past and she is recreating the relationship. Interesting in my dh's family, his sister seems similar to her maternal grandfather, adulterous, drinks like a fish, verbally aggressive etc...and his mother dotes on her. hmm So it could be your mother is recreating patterns from childhood relationships? Not that this helps you. Would you say you are emotionally divorced from them or do you still get bouts of anger and hurt?

AttilaTheMeerkat Sat 01-Mar-08 17:32:47

Hi Ally

Re your comments:-

"Attila - okay so you are the 'capable' one and 'able to look after yourself' whereas brother 'needs looking after'. I guess your brother reminds your mother of someone in her past and she is recreating the relationship".

Could be. My Mother is an only child. Both her parents (i.e my grandparents) are now deceased. I do remember my Nan always being kind to us as children and I miss her to this day, infact both my Nan and grandad were kind but my Grandad did sometimes show a harsher side to his nature.

"Interesting in my dh's family, his sister seems similar to her maternal grandfather, adulterous, drinks like a fish, verbally aggressive etc...and his mother dotes on her. hmm So it could be your mother is recreating patterns from childhood relationships? Not that this helps you. Would you say you are emotionally divorced from them or do you still get bouts of anger and hurt?"

In answer to your last question I feel both emotionally divorced from them and hurt although the bouts of both anger and hurt happen less now. It was more acutely felt when my DS was younger. I am only thankful for my wonderful DH and son, both of whom keep me sane along with my real life friends and MN too!.

Think I should read that book called "Divorcing a Parent".

Anyhoo Ally, how are things your end?. Hope your parents are still well at arms length away from you, they are truly toxic individuals.

Attila x

ally90 Sat 01-Mar-08 17:45:54

Tis a wonderful book, Beverly Engel divorced her own mother and is a psychotherapist so she sees it from both perspectives.

She does go through all the detail you need on how to emotionally and physically divorce and work through your childhood feelings etc, can't say I did all that with my divorce but its helpful to read it all.

I'm okay, thanks for the validation about my parents no contact since xmas. None this valentines, but not unusual now, next date will be dh's bday then dd's bday...we'll see if she has learnt no means no... miracles do happen.

ally90 Sat 01-Mar-08 17:48:43

BTW I did add a book thread here if anyone wants to review a book.

vizbizz Sun 02-Mar-08 07:31:33

Sorry, I haven't been on mumsnet in ages and I missed the start of these chats. Can I join you here?

kaz33 Sun 02-Mar-08 08:17:55

Of course all welcome, the other posters have been very kind, thoughtful and helpful.
So please if you are ready let us know what is on your mind?

kaz33 Sun 02-Mar-08 08:24:50

For those interested the Hoffman Process is an 8 day retreat where you have no contact with the outside world. It sounds a bit cultish but isn't as my DH will agree.

My DH before he went on had anger issues, he had never hit the boys but he had scared me a couple of times. He also lacked self esteem and the ability to make relationships. All changed since his return, he can control his temper even when two boys (6,4) are doing there best to wind him up. He is better a partner, the dependency has disapeared and has just had a promotion at work. For him it was I quote "life saving" and our house is a happier more respectful place.

The basis for the course is Negative Love, basically if our basic human right of unconditional love is not met in childhood then we take on our parents traits as way of saying "Look at me, i am just like you - will you love me now". Its a bit more complicated than that, as I will find out shortly grin.

If you are interested more details on their website

vizbizz Sun 02-Mar-08 10:05:16

am about to go to bed, but in short had an emotionally abusive upbringing, with some physical abuse disguised as "deserved punishment for wrongdoing". I was lucky in that my mother was "the rock". Her love was unconditional, and incredible.

There are some issues I have dealt with, some are still works in progress.

My toxic father has so many issues of his own I pity him his inability to even see that he needs help. (toxic parents is an incredibly apt term, whoever coined it is a genius)

He's the reason I'd like to join in. Most of the time he's not a problem since I live in another country. Some days however, he manages to come up with the most incredible crap it's astonishing. It would be nice to chat with people who understand when he does.

I am happy to share more another time when I am not dropping off to sleep. Thanks for welcoming me.

matildax Sun 02-Mar-08 12:16:22

hello all, hope you are all well,
today is a double whammy for me, it is not only mothers day, but is my mothers birthday also!! my own kids have been wonderful, especially my 5 yr old, who came in to wish me a nice day, every 20 minutes from about 5.30am!!.
i have bought my mum a birthday present, some bubble bath by innoxa, called love and happiness!! its meant to be quite tongue and cheek if thats the right expression, plus her birthday card says happy birthday, hope this day is as magic as you!.

i have not however bought her a mothers day card, and will be dropping of her bithday present with her neighbour, or failing that, i will throw it over her back fence, as i know she is going to my "posh" perfect sisters house for the day. so i wont have to face her.

both my mother and my father were rather cold as i grew up, and favoured all my sisters, cuddling them in front of me, from being very little, and me just sitting there, aching for some "kind" attention.......

oh its a long story, i dont want it to take over my thoughts today, so i will post again soon.
i wish you all, a lovely sunday with your immediate family. lots of love matilda xx

LadyBabo Sun 02-Mar-08 22:03:38

Always avoided buying my mum those 'bestest mum ever in the whole world' type cards, just got her 'happy mothers day,XXX.' I may be a lot of things, but insincere I am not!

toomanystuffedbears Sun 02-Mar-08 23:30:28

Middle Sister called on Friday, left message: "I haven't heard anything (had I given birth yet?) so I thought I'd call and check on you." Pleasant, professional phone voice.
My Oldest Sister came up last week to help with the baby-she's here waiting with me. Middle Sister apparently can not get over this...OS here first. Like, how could I choose OS, the black sheep child of the family, over her-the golden one? (OS is a nurse...hmm)
So I called her back (at her work), smiles everyone-me pleasant too...
I am fine, etc.
She mentioned that OS said the last time she (MS)talked to her that I'd be induced a couple of days after my due date. I was silent at this wondering when OS and MS talked...pretty long silence(she probably thought I was silent speaking to OS right there-I wasn't, but no matter)...finally I said, "I'm going to be induced on Tuesday."
She doesn't respond to this, instead she moves on to the next question-her conversations with me are a la interviews - or rather her script.

MS asks if OS and I are having fun. I said "I am 3 days past my due date, how much fun do you think I can have? I mean it is not like we are going out partying, MS."
Tersley: MS: "Let me rephrase that."
Again with more acid: "Let me rephrase that..."
"Are you enjoying her company?"
<<<wtf kind of question is that?>>>
I say with a little attitude: "Yes, of course I am enjoying her company; I have always enjoyed her company."
Long silence.
MS says, dripping toxins, "I will talk to you later."
I begin to say, "About Tues..."
MS: "I will talk to you later."
I: "But.."
MS: acid repeat
I: "Fine, bye" and I held the phone away, but let her hang up first.
OS angry shock
Told DH-he angry shock

<<<<Well, MS didn't stay on the victim spot very long- back to persecutor-Bad, TMSB, bad!>>>

So she hasn't called back-48 hours. Time for my email to her (just now):

sub: Change of plans
Dear MS,
"Talk to me later?" Don't bother.
It used to be that you'd offer suggestions and advice for me to use in my circumstances, but now you are in the habit of pushing bossy orders on me and if I choose a different solution or answer you become very angry with me. Until this behavior of yours changes, I am putting our relationship on hold.
The plans we have made for you to be here are canceled. I will invite you to visit when I feel I am ready to cope with you. I will send email if or when there is any news, or photos.

If she does call and if (or whenever) I am feeling cavalier enough to pick up wink- I'll say: "I'm busy, I'll talk to you later." repeat mechanically x3 interrupting her, then hang up.

I thank you all for being here and giving support and guidance. Without you, I probably would have never done that, which I seriously needed to do.
I feel relief. I feel in charge of my circumstances rather than just a respondent to my circumstances, iyswim.
Not only is she not coming here as planned, but I set another boundary of communicating only by email.

Several of the last posts on the previous thread have offered clarity for me- oneplusone, mampam.
Thanks Ally.
And Kaz on "Changing my mind", lol---offering a clue to MS that I have my own mind? MS will undoubtedly jump back to Victim spot on the Drama Triangle and "I changed my mind" will undoubtedly be useful.

Smithfield- I hope you and your family are doing well.
Sakura- I hope your travels are going safely and that you can stay in "monitor mode" while around your family (ie somewhat detached).

Podmog Mon 03-Mar-08 09:04:53

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