"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's February 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Has anyone read that Codependency for Dummies book ?

Makealist yes I've nearly finished Codependency for Dummies. I found it really helpful. Lots of bullet points and subheadings if that's your bag - personally I find the novel-type ones a bit hard going. I keep looking at the Pete Walker Tao book and I know I should read it but the text is so dense...

I know what you mean about it being hard to tell whether their narcissism is innate or whether it's some almighty fucked-up-ness that has been passed down the generations. It probably doesn't matter as the effect's the same. I do think that if it wasn't for the internet with forums/articles/books to order etc I might still be as un-self-aware as the rest of them.

Toomuch I loved your blog post.

Question: when I said earlier in the thread that I didn't feel I could leave the care of our M, when she gets old, to be the sole responsibility of my DSis, was that me being codependent with DSis (because it is guilt that's making me say that)? Or me just being a normal amount of nice?

Regarding damaged people Vs narcissists, I think in Pete Walker's CPTSD book he says that people who were abused and who had the fight response can turn out to be narcissists. People with the fawn response become codependents in the usual sense. But Grannon has a video where he says that narcissists are a sort of codependent too. I think it's all to do with porous ego boundaries, whether that's enforcing your own view on others or letting others force themselves on you.

I want to say more but I'm getting pressed into a game of shops with one of the kids

I've been doing a lot of reading up. I feel weirdly okay with knowing that my mum isn't like regular mums, I mean i'm not okay with it (it hurts like hell) but i'm okay knowing (because I finally have answers). I hope that makes sense. I think it's because I remember really vividly saying to her when I was a child that I was upset because she didn't love me, I just knew she didn't I don't know how but I knew, but instead of reassuring me she shouted at me. I mentioned it again when I was in my early 20's (I needed to know if I was mental because I felt like there was something wrong with me) but she stopped speaking to me for a few years for being so ungrateful

I'm not so bothered about what will happen with my mum and me, we're currently on a one hour per week 'contract'. But when i've been reading i've seen things that I recognise and I need to change. I'm hoping you can help because I don't know what to do. I've ordered a few books off the internet but I don't know if they will have the answers.

The first one is, I've found that i'm doing that thing where I look for my OH to emotionally support my needs, I don't mean in a regular way, I mean in a needy way. It's not a huge problem as such because I tend to sense to back off when I don't get it because I understand that the stuff i'm 'going through' is kind of alien plus he's so naturally good at boxing things up neatly quite quickly but i'm feeling like i'm dwelling at the moment and needing rescuing and that's alien to me. I can't expect him to solve this, he's a regular bloke and not trained in this kind of stuff so any advice about... I don't even know what i'm asking tbh. I suppose I want to be strong and I want to come through this so what do I do when I find myself feeling all pathetic and needy? Do I mention it or do I deal with it some other way?

The other thing is, i'm doing that thing where i'm feeling responsible for other people's feelings. I'm okay with friends and workmates, I can handle that because although I care I do see that they are not my responsibility BUT i've noticed that I am constantly aware of my OH and my son's (age 22) moods. If they are happy then I am happy, phew! But if they are unhappy I seem to go into overdrive. I ask what's wrong, I fuss, I worry, I make them favourite meals, I will do overly nice things to 'cheer them up'. I also behave like this when they are not unhappy but when I have been unhappy and feel I need to compensate. To be fair, I don't think they've noticed in the way I have, I think i'm good at 'hiding' the lengths I will go to to try and make them happy, To them, what I do I think appears natural but i'm now aware that it's not, it's not natural, it's some sort of defence mechanism or something. I need to stop doing this BUT the problem is, what is the right way to feel and behave when for example my son is looking down in the mouth on the car drive to work but says there is nothing wrong? Because, honestly, I really don't know. My OH says he (son) is just not a morning person, to ignore it and it'll be fine and i've tried that and it is but it makes me feel like i'm not doing enough because by doing that i'm not doing anything. I sound like a right fusspot, it's not as bad as it looks written down but rather this is what's going on inside my head.

Treacle regarding neediness and your OH, I think it is quite common among our sort to be very uncomfortable about showing "weakness" - which makes sense because as children we couldn't trust that we would be met with kindness if we admitted to needing help. The exact opposite. I appreciate this isn't a question you can really answer but is it worth thinking about, to what extent are you unhappy with the neediness because of its effect on your DH/your relationship and how much is your discomfort with feeling need?

I think we all would benefit from having people who we can talk to and get comfort and commiseration from, but I'm not sure that that always has to be one's DP. I don't tell DH a lot of the nuts and bolts of what's going on in my head. When the feelings are very raw I tend to come online, there's a few people (you guys included) who I will tell the hard stuff to. I think because fellow survivors understand it better, and also because I like having a "normal" to return to. I think that it should definitely be an aim for all of us to try and get a support network in place that we can go to and share stuff. I think because of our pasts, because of the effect on us, we have to be careful not to trigger feelings of danger, of having to overshare, of not being able to put it all away - does any of that make any sense?

Regarding taking care of DH and DS's feelings...
what is the right way to feel and behave

I know I'm slightly kind of misinterpreting this here, I know you're asking about how do we know what normal looks like, but I have to say: there is no right way to feel. How you feel is how you feel, start from that. And don't worry about the behaviour, it's not harming anyone. There are a lot more unhealthy ways to deal with anxiety than a bit of flight response busyness. (See this article on CPTSD response types - look under "The Flight Type and the Obsessive-Compulsive Defense" for stuff about the flight response.)

The fussing and worrying are symptoms of the underlying anxiety that is triggered in you when the people around you aren't actively happy. It seems likely that that stems from childhood where, with an unpredictably angry parent, you'd have learned to be hypervigilant to their moods. Now that you're safe, it's not easy to stop that hypervigilance. Your nervous system thinks you're still in danger.

I don't have any great answers but I'm currently doing yoga as a way to help this - there's research that suggests that yoga helps CPTSD sufferers to reduce their fight or flight response. This is the book I'm reading. It was written by some of the same people as The Body Keeps The Score.

spare I'm glad you liked the blog post! Thanks
I think it is nice of you to consider your Dsis but yes ultimately you're not responsible for her actions - you're anticipating having to get involved because she's involved, to stop her doing too much...
What would you do if it was just you? Would you feel that you had to look after your mother yourself? Would you have nothing to do with her? Or would you take responsibility for her care but remain hands off, e.g. being her next of kin, arranging her care etc?
Having answered that, does your view of what you should do then change if you think about what your sister might do? E.g if you were on your own you'd arrange your mum's care but not visit, but if Dsis started visiting you'd feel obliged to share some of the visiting duties? Do you see what I mean? I think if you decide what you're willing to commit to your mother (that might be nothing) then you don't need to feel obliged to do more to take the pressure off your sister, if your sister decides to do more.

Thank you Toomuch I felt very comforted by what you've said and it's given me hope and food for thought. I think your question is really interesting. It is mostly down to my own immediate discomfort/awkwardness and also fear that if I don't stop with the neediness immediately I'll cause irreparable damage or drive him away, although I can see now (that I'm in a calm state) that he's not that flakey or selfish and to be completely honest I think he'd stick by me even if I totally lost the plot. You're really right about what you said about showing weakness and I do somehow associate needing comfort as being weak as I have no qualms about asking for a cuddle or initiating one or receiving one when I'm feeling well balanced. Im going to work through this some more, it's very interesting.

I've 'enjoyed', if that's the right way to put it, reading the article you linked, I recognise myself as a 'fawn' with the occasional 'freeze'. I went on to read the codependency and fawn and that's me! I feel my default is freeze but I have learned fawn as a protective measure (especially with other women) because I know 100% I have been crudely manipulated to flatter my mother. I do think nice things naturally ( or at least I think I do) but I now recognise that I have a tendency to pay compliments when none are expected, or required.

Yes, yes, yes to the fussing. Now you've said it I do feel anxious. This is strange because my GP has concluded that my stomach pains are physical signs of stress and anxiety and I've always (for about 15 years) said that it's weird because I'm not stressed or have anything to be anxious about. Maybe I'm so used to living with an undercurrent of anxiety that I don't just feel it until it's especially heightened. Maybe my default level is set at 6 or 7. This long weekend I'm going to try and be natural and not fuss or preempt and see what happens. I'm going to try and home in on how I am really feeling and decide if I can live with it because thinking about it, although I'm appearing to fuss over other people and be selfless that actually in a crude knee jerk reaction kind of way I'm being quite selfish. I've been putting my weird unnatural need for order above their natural, normal and healthy feelings. I feel quite shit when I look at it like that but it's the kick up the arse I need so... I'm happy with that.

It's all very interesting and you've given me loads to work on. That's good for me because not only will it help me heal it'll also keep me looking forward rather than dwelling on what's happened. I do know though that I want my fight or flight response back. It's mine, it was never hers to take.

Treacle I am similar with DD as you describe with your DS in the car. I feel the need to fix stuff when what she actually needs is sympathy, because like you say it's almost as if my happiness depends on hers. And then I feel stressed at having to fix stuff, when actually it's all self-generated, and then she picks up on the stress and backs off, and I feel the need to fix it even more and so it goes on! I'm trying to do better and I do get what's going on now, but somehow in a real situation you forget what you ought to do. I think I need some sort of virtual flash cards to pop up reminding me what to do when I start going down the wrong route, because I keep realising too late.

Toomuch that advice makes a lot of sense to me. Thinking about it, your suggestion of how to think about it is pretty much the way I have come to think about my MiL who IS needing care at the moment. I suppose I have been unable to transfer the relatively 'normal' response I have to my MiL's care to my own M because of all the extra emotional baggage (FOG) I have with her.

I was dreading meeting up with my parents today, I was out of sorts yesterday and this morning but managed to keep busy (distraction). I think I might have been anxious because of the thought of being alone with my mum. As it happened my son asked if I'd pick him up earlier than usual from work today which meant I'd be able to meet my parents for a coffee but not have the chance to walk round the shops after with mum. I agreed to pick him up, as I'm putting a stop to automatically putting her first.

So I met them and I was greeted with a smile (rare). I chatted to both parents today and guess what, my dad didn't fiddle with his phone once! I think my dad has guessed that I've sussed her out though, or at least noticed something because although she didn't behave too terribly (for her), there was this moment when she started saying something (commanding attention) and then lost the point of what she was saying so started sulking and looking away muttering something about 'I don't actually know what it is that I want'. Instead of me rushing in to comfort her and coax it out of her what she wanted to say I turned to my dad to see his reaction, he pulled this really funny face as if to say 'jeez, here we go again' and I started smirking and then so did he. I couldn't help it but we had a moment, just a very small minute moment where I felt we connected. That's enough for me though, I'm not tempted in any way to talk to him about it because whatever he thinks of her that's his issue, I have my own to deal with. But I do admit that for the first time in maybe 40 years I felt like he was real, that he let me see his true self. I'm a little comforted by that.

Mum also had another dig about my son. I mentioned (very boringly) that I'd nipped to the shop and bought three fans to help cool the house down. Mum said she thought we had a fan already. I said we had but the base broke last year, I added that I couldn't remember how it'd broke but it had. She immediately butted in saying it was X (my son) insert smug look on her face that he'd carried it downstairs to pass to me but let go before I had hold of it and then she said that I'd then said that he always breaks everything. It all came rushing out of her mouth so quickly, it proper reminded me of a six year old telling tales. I replied that it doesn't ring any bells but it doesn't matter either.

I feel I did well today. Most of the conversation went okay, apart from those two childish episodes. I asked them all about the house buying, plans they had, and I told them about none emotive stuff. I think last week I took boring to the extreme by saying I'd done nothing except work and housework but today I mentioned real stuff, not too dull but definitely no feelings or opinions involved.

Overall I'm feeling stronger again, and breezier. I didn't feel like a child today, I felt like a grown up 'me'. I was worried that I'd not be able to respond to my mother's weirdness without resorting to being rude, and that's what was making me anxious, how I would handle it, but it was painless. I could have never in a million years have predicted that. And, I don't feel guilty because I did nothing wrong . I know it's not a competition or maybe not even a concern after all she's done but for me to handle two childish episodes while remaining composed is absolutely HUGE for me.

Glass of wine for me now. Cheers, and thank you everyone! (Said in a none fawny way cos I proper mean it]

Spare Yes to that, my son needs some sympathy and definitely empathy. I know exactly what's bothering him, he wants a good job and to live with his friends in the city, that hasn't changed. But I think I'm so used to fixing my mum's ever changing wants and needs that I'm not used to someone having the same 'problem' long term. My mum had a different problem every week, a new one for me to fix before the next one piled on. My son is different, it's the same problem so he must (surely) be fed up about thinking about it never mind having to repeat it over and over to me. I can see that now but I couldn't before.

I've been trying to pay more attention today, not that I was inattentive but I've been paying attention to the bigger picture. I've not kept score or anything but my son was quite down this morning, pleasant but down in the dumps, yet he laughed about a few things on the way home. I think looking back it's 'normal' for him to have down moments and up moments. As a short term thingy I will leave him to it (I mean lay off in a nice way, not dump him lol) and make sure I continue to note that he's having more up moments than down ones. I'm also going to listen more rather than second guess because it's obvious now that my experience has been rather warped so I could go off on the wrong track if I start guessing.

It's hard though. Worth it, totally worth it, but I think kids these days have it quite tough and I don't know about you but a lot of it is alien to me.

treacle so good to hear you're making some progress with how your mum affects you. Do you think the digs about your son are her being jealous?

I've been so forgetful lately. Think it's a combination of things but mainly most of my brain space being taken up trying to process all my emotions. I forgot to put a nappy on my 3 year old last night, so at 4am she was calling me as she'd wet the bed. Poor thing, I feel terrible. Anyway she couldn't get back to sleep so now we are up. DH is working today so will have the baby and a tired toddler to deal with. I might have to go for a drive later to get her to have a nap. There is a drive through Starbucks about 20 minutes away

I'm still getting the flashbacks but I'm actually dealing with the emotion now. I had a moment the other morning where I was actually looking forward to the day and wanted to go and do things. Haven't had this for years so a bit of a breakthrough.

I'm up early too, it was so hot in our bedroom that I woke early feeling quite dehydrated.

It never crossed my mind that it could be jealousy Sleepy but you could have a point there. It would make sense. I know my mum is irrationally jealous of 'things' that other people have. When I first read what you'd said for some reason my mind answered 'yeah, if you think of jealousy in the mindset of a six year old'. Maybe she sees him as stealing her friend away.

Well done on your breakthrough. I don't think I've had a true emotional flashback yet, just memory flashbacks, I can remember what happened and how I felt but I don't think I've actually felt it. I had the most bizarre one the other day, I was singing along to the car radio when it suddenly hit me that I've never known my mum play music or mention music, next thing I was transported back to being around 8 years old and we were on a road trip when we pulled into a cafe that had a juke box. My dad loved music so immediately put some tunes on (he let me pick one too ). Next thing we were all sat down with our drinks and that song My Way came blasting out, my mum freaked out, raging about how he knew she hated this song. She was proper furious at the time but the interesting thing to me was how I'd remembered that she raged "he knows I hate this" yet my dad was sat there too. It's interesting and maybe relevant that she didn't directly address my dad with her gripe.

Have you, or anyone, had any success of going back in time to comfort the child you? I was reading about it last night, it might have been on the Pete Walker site, it sounded really interesting. I don't actually know what I'm doing but I popped myself back in time to when my mum freaked out about the song and told my child self that my mum was wrong to behave like that. I felt I should have said more but that seemed enough for that memory.

Hi Treacle it's interesting you mention your mum not having any interest in music; my M is the same and I've always found it strange, I've never met anybody else who doesn't love music in sone form or other. Maybe it taps into emotions they just don't have so they don't 'get' it?

My dad had loads of vinyl records, going back to the 50's. At some point after he died my M just threw them away. When I asked her about it she just said 'well nobody plays records any more' with a shrug. She didn't seem to understand the concept of sentimental value at all.

It's six weeks this weekend of NC with her. My sister's gone v quiet too - I saw her a couple of weeks ago and I've messaged her since but not heard anything back. The needy part of me is worrying that she's listened to all the crap our M will be saying about me and is taking her side - I know our M will have been seeing her all the time. I kind of feel like I need to take a step back and see if she gets in touch with me now, it feels like some weird 'pick me' dance. I just don't understand how she can be carrying on with our M like nothing's changed.

Hi Flump, I'm sorry to hear that your sister has gone quiet. I notice you are thinking that she's carrying on like nothing has changed. I am guilty of thinking similar in similar situations but found the article by Pete Walker about a thing we have called an 'Outer Critic' really eye opening. www.pete-walker.com/pdf/ShrinkingOuterCritic.pdf

I didn't find it an easy read, it's long and it stirred up some uncomfortable guilty emotions for me (guilty as in guilty as charged sir!) But it was definitely a lightbulb moment and explained a hell of a lot. I think it might help you with your thoughts about what's going on.

treacle I've tried to comfort the child me. I think it takes a bit of practice. Weird thing that happened though last week. I was thinking about a particularly stressful time and tried comforting my child self. I'm not sure why I did this but I also told myself that spiders weren't scary. I've had a phobia since I was about 9. Yesterday I managed to pick up a spider and throw it out of the window. It was only small but I never would have done this previously. I think the more you do it the bigger effect it will have. That's what I'm hoping anyway.

flump sorry your sister hasn't been in touch. I guess she may feel that she needs to pick a side, or it could just be that's she's trying to process it all. If it was me I would wait for her to make contact. Hope you hear from her soon.

Treacle wow - that article has rung so many bells for me. I think I do this with so many people, in so many situations. And you're right, I'm clearly doing it now with my sister

I've just been sitting here trying to tell those thoughts to 'stop'. They come right back at me though. Bastards

sleepy yes I am going to back off and see what happens - but am also going to try not to second-guess what's going on - which is going to be really, really hard.

I'm struggling with the article posted by treacle. What happens if the world really isn't safe and you really can't trust people?
I used to tell myself I was being paranoid/silly/whatever, but then I'd get really hurt by people because I had ignored my instinct.

I feel like there really is something "wrong" with me, marking me out as less-than. My brain knows this can't be true but my experiences appear to show otherwise.

I'm really struggling with this - from the POV of friendships/relationships my life feels like a series of random, disjointed scenes rather than a coherant movie, iyswim.

I'm sorry if I've said anything wrong, I'm having a lot of bad memories atm.

I'm sorry, I probably shouldn't be posting here. Although my problems started in the family environment, it is not nearly as bad as other posters, and it's what happened as an adult that has affected me more now I think.

Yes, those bastard intrusive thoughts have been a. pain. in. the. arse.

This helped me

I will not repetitively examine details over and over. I will not jump to negative conclusions. I will not endlessly second-guess myself. I cannot change the past. I forgive all my past mistakes. I cannot make the future perfectly safe. I will stop hunting for what could go wrong. I will not try to control the uncontrollable. I will not micromanage myself or others. I work in a way that is “good enough”, and I accept the existential fact that my efforts sometimes bring desired results and sometimes they do not

It's taken from here ... www.pete-walker.com/shrinkingInnerCritic.htm Pete Walker again, he's my hero at the mo

I especially like the idea of things being good enough. I'm going to say that a lot from now.

Theresa Sorry, I cross posted with you with my last post.

You are so not alone feeling how you feel. I'm new to this but seems instinct ignoring is a kind of symptom of our circumstances. You're not paranoid, I'll bet my life on that, but there will probably be things that will need slotting into place for it all to make sense.

I hope someone will be along soon to point you in the right direction of where to start, you are definitely in the right place.

Treacle I still think as regards the fussing, the most important thing is that you get relief from the underlying anxiety rather than that you change your behaviour - I mean, unless your DH or DS seem particularly upset by it. I think it is your flight response to feelings of anxiety, and as such I think it's not all that unhealthy. I think you're probably right about having anxiety that you don't really feel - I wrote a blog post about this, IDK if that rings any bells?

Have you, or anyone, had any success of going back in time to comfort the child you?

Oh Christ. Right, I was going to delete this bit because I didn't want to make this about me, or put you off, but in the spirit of "we're going to show our weakness and it's going to be fine" I'm going to share this. I did an inner child exercise at the suggestion of my therapist a couple of weeks ago and ended up in a massive emotional flashback. It lasted 2 days till various friends (thanks Ste) managed to talk me back off the edge. I would say if you do do it, approach your inner child really gently like you would a real kid having an epic meltdown, and don't have any expectations of your inner child AT ALL.
I must say it was useful (although I wouldn't want to repeat the experience) to know that my inner child was that angry. Really, really angry. And also it's the first time I've felt like yes, I am properly mentally ill. Which might not sound like a positive, but it is validating. All of this seems quite theoretical sometimes, as I've limped along OK in life - dissociating a lot, bad habits, lack of motivation, depression - nothing properly batshit crazy. But doing a little inner child visualisation and getting suicidal ideation for two days afterwards - that's properly mental. It's like, good, we're getting closer to isolating the fault.

Hi Theresa!

Although my problems started in the family environment, it is not nearly as bad as other posters

Everyone says that. Everyone. I was a cheerful and obedient schoolkid who was so well looked after physically that my mother used to iron the ribbons she put in my hair.

This is going to sound a bit mad but if you can be bothered, would you sit through Disney's Tangled (Rapunzel)? In this take on the Rapunzel story, Mother Gothel has convinced Rapunzel that the world is a scary and dangerous place, full of people who are out to get her and who would value her only for what they can use her for - when in fact this is true only of Mother Gothel herself, who keeps her a prisoner to have access to her magical hair. Some abusive parents bring us up to believe that they are the only people who will ever really love us - they have to convince us that their love is the only love we'll ever get, because it's so shit, if we had any other options we'd leave.

You mention bad experiences - have you attracted abusive people into your life? That happens to us for a number of reasons. First, we don't see the red flags of abuse - the behaviour of abusive people feels normal and natural to us. Second, abusers can spot us. They can smell it off us. Third, we've been trained as kids not to value our own feelings, so when someone makes us unhappy, we don't have the habit of acting on our feelings and walking away. And fourth - when we've been taught by our parents that the world is scary and love hard to find, then we're less likely to go back out there and look for great people.

It's not just a feeling, it's not coincidence, and it's not because there's anything inherently wrong with you - it's the shitty childhood experiences marking you out.

Please stick around! We are very happy to have you here, although the reason for being here is never happy

Toomuch Something happened last night (I was going to say a weird/strange/odd thing happened but I don't want to make it negative). I keep mentioning that I don't feel anxious, that I have physical symptoms but not emotional ones BUT last night when I was walking home from the pub I checked my phone and saw that I'd been addressed directly... I felt it, I felt anxious. And not only did I feel it my instinct was to close my browser without reading and never come back, I hadn't even read the reply, I'd only seen my screen name.

I've got so much going round in my head this morning, it's jumbled, but in there I'm remembering when I was young and that awful sinking feeling I used to get when I'd been out with friends and it was time to go home.

This next thing I will call strange, it ties in with what I've just said but in a weird way. My parents are selling their house so it has photographs of the rooms on Rightmove. I'd been chatting with my OH a few weeks about how I don't know how she does it but every house my parents have had she's managed to make it feel like a dark cave and that there never seems to be any warmth or soul. In the recall part of my mind as I was saying it I was picturing her house as brown, various shades of brown throughout and if anyone had asked I'd have instinctively said it was shades of brown. Thing is, it's not brown, there is no brown

Treacle if this sounds bonkers just shout me down... My childhood was in the 1970s so everything WAS very brown. I don't know if you are a similar age to me - if not this won't apply. But maybe you associate your parents' house with childhood (even if it's not the actual one you grew up in) and that's why it's brown in your head. (Or more literally and obviously maybe you just associate brown with something that's a bit shit.)

Toomuch I re-read your blogpost about when you realised you have complex PTSD. I too have feelings I can't explain. Often people close to me irritate me for no obvious reason and I feel guilty that I'm unaccountably irritated because I know it's not warranted so I try to squash/hide it which makes it worse. And I also get sort of stressed inside with physical symptoms - for me it's when I have to argue about something I feel strongly about or especially when something's happened that I think is unjust. I need to explore that I think.

Snap, I'm a child of the 70's. Everything was brown.

The house they're in now I've never lived in. It's not even similar. It's just so strange how on the photos it's pale colours but in my mind it's dark and dismal. I don't go in their house much, a handful of times a year but I hate the way it makes me feel, I make so many excuses to not go in.