"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's February 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hello all you good people on here. Dipping in for a bit as I'm feeling quite low.

Went to a custom car and bike show just down the road from where we live. We have to pass mum's estate to get there. I was walking with DD, when mum came toward us. I was civil to her and just said a passing, polite "Hello", but she blatantly ignored me and spoke to DD.

We're supposed to be scattering dad's ashes in the sea, at the town where he grew up (he worked on different ships for a couple of global companies and loved the sea), but I'm not sure I can go. I know I should, but mum and Br2 make my anxiety levels hit the ionosphere, when I'm anywhere near them.

I haven't been on here because I've been doing a lot of reflection on how I was treated as a child. At the age of around 7-9yo, I tried running away from home to get away from mum and Br2. At 18yo I tried to kill myself to get away from them and feeling that leaving DB1, DB3 and dad was a small price to pay, in order to have peace from Br2 and mum. Obviously it didn't work because I'm here today. If it wasn't for my friends, DH and the DC, I probably would have done a better job.

I'm struggling with the feelings of inadequacy, worthlessness and the funny thing is, I look at my 2 crazy staffies, and I see 2 animals who love me unconditionally. They don't judge me (except probably when I'm being a silly prat ) and just know instinctively when I'm needing comfort. I've come to the conclusion that I like my dogs far better than mum and Br2. No doubt mum will probably tell Br2 that I blanked her and make herself out to be the victim. Unfortunately mum has done such a good job on Br2, that if I tried to explain that I said hello, and she blanked me, he wouldn't believe me. Probably because he doesn't want his wonderful image of his mother ruined by the truth.

I'm so sorry for those who are going through similar. It must be so hard to not get your head around the idea, that the person who is supposed to love and protect you, failed to do their job even adequately. for all you good people on here, who helped keep me sane by talking some sense.

Atilla, I thoroughly appreciate what you have said to me on here. TooOld, between your good self and Atilla, you have thrown common sense in my direction and helped me see my mum for the person she really is. The fact that you helped me see mum's double façade of being nice and charming to others, but nasty, bitter and horrid to me. I really appreciate everything you have helped me with.

This is not just for Atilla and TooOld, but for all you other good people who have held my hand and sympathised with me, as well as understanding what I've been through. You are all wonderful people . Thank you all so much for your help and support.

Scabby, I was on your thread earlier and I would say that you should go NC with your mum. She was not the mum you deserved, and she has shown her very poor impulse control. No way would I ever expose my DC to that kind of person, no matter who they were, family or friend. The only difference between family and a friend is that one is blood related and the other isn't. When it comes down to the bare basics, they are still individuals, so don't let the blood relation stop you from doing the parental duty of protecting your DC from people who harm them.

I went NC with my mum because despite many attempts to get mum to put in the effort to have a relationship with my DC, she didn't make the effort. Mum then tells people that I stopped her from seeing the DC, even though DD goes round to that area (her friend lives a few doors away), but doesn't call in to see mum. Mum likes to make out she's a doting grandmother, but complains that she doesn't see the DC. My DC understand that to keep a relationship going, it takes 2 people to make an effort. If they are the one making the effort and the other person isn't, then our DC also understand that they can refuse to put any more effort in until the other person does. A simple case of "I'll treat people as they treat me, and if you CBA to make even the slightest effort, and be decent, then neither can/will I".

I've started living by that and the amount of people who have become angry with me because I'm mirroring their behaviour (making them see how they're behaving toward me, and possibly other folk), tells me that they don't want to face the truth about how they have been/are acting.

Anyway, must go to bed as I've been up since 4am as usual, and I'm cream crackered

Take care y'all good folks.

Ste man it's a mark of honour to get disbarred from any of our families. Not that that helps when you could really do with support, I know. I think it's good that your DD is staying out of it - there's really nothing to be gained from her trying to stick up for you, as she's with your dad every week, and has to just try and keep her head down. I really hope this is the last of it and you can concentrate on getting well.

Hi Horse I think I remember your thread. Glad you made it here

Hi midnight! I think with mothers like ours, one of the aspects of the abuse is that you're made to feel as though your feelings are not important, so then as an adult you always think "oversensitive" when someone is horrible to you. And even if you convince yourself, then you start looking for reasons in your own behaviour to explain it, because as a kid, every time your mum had a bad mood, somehow you'd end up being responsible for it.

See that thing about "codependent parents feel they are to blame for their children's suffering" - god yeah, that's me in buckets. And my mother too. Difference is, my mother thought it was fine to bully me into being perfect/not having emotions so that she could feel OK. I just sit on my hands and tell myself, sadness is part of life, don't take it personally, just let them get hurt and then be there to give a cuddle. I find it incredibly stressful. I think this is the pinch point where the breaking of the cycle of abuse happens.

sleepy sorry to hear it's hard going. Hope you're feeling better soon.

Scruff don't drive yourself nuts thinking about what your mother and brother say to each other. It's all bollocks designed to make them feel better about themselves. and it sounds like by being boundaried in behaviour (treating others as they treat you) you're weeding out the fake friends. Which is awesome. Life's much nicer in the company of good people.

makealist , toomuch thanks, feeling a bit better today.

I still keep getting memories from childhood that I had forgotten. I think I've just been ignoring them for years and the more I take notice of them the more there seem to be.

Wondering if anyone else had this. My m would never let me out of the house on my own, it was the same with my siblings. It was really over the top. She never spent any time with us at home but we were never allowed to go out and play with our friends. She said it was because she was so worried that something might happen to us. I can't really work this out. I think its either because she was worried how bad she would look if something happened or it's just another form of control.

Another weird thing is she never used to care what we watched on tv. I watched completely inappropriate stuff as quite a young child. Horror films, films with sex scenes and some really violent stuff.

Need to get this out of my head and down somewhere. Sorry for the rambling posts.

That's interesting midnightswirls.
I have been accused of being controlling/perfectionist which is hard to hear obvs. And it how I see myself. I feel quite laid back but also like I am laid back about the wrong things. I think when you've had sub standard parenting it's hard to gauge things right. Sometimes end up worrying too much.

Thanks for the welcome too much and scruffy.

*not how I see myself!

sleepy I know what you mean about the inappropriate films. Really difficult. and not protective of you.

sleepyhay my mum would keep me in the house too. She "wouldn't like me playing on the streets". Actually my friends would just go to the park and chat like kids do. But I was made to sit in do my homework and be the "perfect" child. She would insist on taking me places in the car and then moan about doing so.
I've been called bossy many times before scabbyhorse. I also see myself as laid back but like you say the wrong things. I am also such a big worrier/over thinker. I think it's down to me being confused why my mum acts the way she does and therefore I try find a reason in everything.
toomuchtooold yes she would bully me into being perfect. If I stepped outside of what she thought was acceptable or I challenged what she was saying she would then use intimidation. Even now I'm an adult she will use intimidation. Funny thing is apart from smacking my legs when I was young she has never hit me badly or as an adult. Guess her tactics worked on me.

SleepyHay - I lived on a street full of young children growing up. My Mother would let me play outside with these children and didn't care where I went or how long I stayed out - as long as I stayed outside. I wasn't allowed to go inside any neighbor's house. She said these other parents didn't want me around. These other parents didn't like me, she said. I would make her look bad if I was in someone else's house. Adults hate children in the house, she said. The neighbor kids were allowed inside my house though, although my parents hated it. They pretended to like it. Mother never said No to the neighbors coming over. She assumed all parents hate children and I had to behave as if I knew that to be true and not be a bother.

This was part of the programming she gave me - no one likes you, no one wants you around, you are a nobody, in addition to everyone is welcome inside our house even if it was a bad time for playing. If the other children wanted inside, she let them in no matter what.

So, not exactly what you were dealing with, but close. The little things are so interesting to me, looking back. The little things ultimately added up.

Sleepy* YY to some of what you said upthread - my M wouldn't let me do lots of things friends were allowed to - because she 'worried about me' apparently. Funny thing is, when she did have things to worry about with me - eating disorders, abusive relationship' - she stood back and left me to get on with it.

Also the being allowed to watch Horror films, etc. I once mentioned to DH that I'd seen films such as Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween, etc when I was really young (10/11) and they scared the crap out of me. He was that my parents thought this was ok. It was only really when my DC got to that sort of age that I realised how ridiculously wrong that was. I would also then get in trouble for being too scared to go to bed on my own

Sleepy we had the opposite with the TV. We weren't allowed to watch anything with adverts until we were at secondary school. We weren't allowed to turn over the channel at all from what our M had put it on to. It means I have huge cultural gaps compared to my peers. I think in the 1970s all I watched was basically Blue Peter and the snooker with my DF.

The other really weird thing about my M is that she was always stuck in the past. All our appliances were either out of date by about 20 years or we didn't have one at all. So I brought my first bf home at 16 to meet my parents and he couldn't believe that I made a cup of tea by boiling a pan of water - we didn't have a kettle. (Or a microwave, or a freezer - and the washing machine was a twin tub.)

Also someone else mentioned being controlling with your own children. I struggle with that too. I think I'm miles better than she was but I still catch myself sometimes. Or realise afterwards that I've been doing it. I still think, well, at least I realised - she is totally unaware she did anything wrong.

Hi everyone

I attempted a no talk about my mum day (equivalent to a no spend day). It didn't go too well. I didn't talk about her but I bottled it up instead. I've decided i'm not ready for that yet

From being age six upwards my mum didn't care where I was as long as I was home for a set time.I had a fantastic time away from home, I felt free and I actually felt lucky because I didn't have the restrictions that a lot of my friends did. Having said that, it's more luck than judgement that I didn't end up arrested, in serious trouble, or dead because when I look back the stuff I got up to was not healthy in the slightest.

I can relate to the horror movies. My dad loved them and still does. He used to laugh and tease at how scared I got or how I would gag at the bloody scenes. I don't actually feel scarred from that but one recurrent memory I have is having nightmares and going to my parents bedroom for comfort but being told I must sleep on the floor, later as I got older I was turned away.

I can also relate to the wetting, in a fashion. It's one of my most horrific memories and it only features my parents as a bit part, albeit I can see now why it scarred me so much. My mum has a martyr complex and when she got pregnant with me she was told by her mother (I've heard this story soooooo many times) "You've made your bed, lie in it". So consequently everything to do with me was hard work and my fault. My parents never went out without me as no one would look after me (My mum's version of events) but when I was about 4 years old my Uncle and Auntie did look after me at their house. The next day it was my cousins first birthday and whilst I was in their living room I said I needed a wee. My uncle said I had to cross my legs because they were about to give my cousin her pressies. So I crossed my legs but I couldn't help it, I weed myself. My auntie scooped me up all concerned and the next thing I remember I was in the bath and she was knelt down next to me very gently sponging me down and comforting me. My uncle burst into the bathroom with a face like an evil devil, all red and angry and he slapped me so hard on the back I lost my breath. It came from nowhere. He marched out of the room saying i'd ruined his daughters birthday on purpose. I hadn't, I honestly hadn't. When my parents came to collect me my auntie told them what had happened but I didn't get any comfort from my parents, I got blame and I got the immortal words 'Thanks to you we'll never be able to go out ever again'.

Swirls "For example, a co-dependent parent may believe that if a child is not perfect or if the child suffers it is the parent's fault. Therefore, the parent protects the child from making mistakes and from other painful experiences so that the parent doesn't have to feel guilt.

I'm so glad you posted that, your timing is immaculate. Lately I have been feeling like I need to fix my son when he looks unhappy/down and have been struggling (inwardly not outwardly thank goodness) trying to find out what it is that is making him unhappy. The truth is, I know what is making him unhappy and I simply can't fix it. He wanted to leave university and get a great job and live in a city with his friends. Instead he's got a mediocre job and lives with his parents in a quiet village, it's not what he wanted and no amount of making his favourite meals or slipping him tenners will make up for it. I even think I might have been insulting him trying. FWIW I want what he wants 100%.

Another memory I keep having is when I was about eight years old. I can't remember why or what sparked it but I tried to run away from home. I remember very clearly packing up my 'trolley' (It was a toy trolley with wheels) with important stuff and waiting until no-one was looking and I took off down the street. I do distinctly remember feeling very determined about leaving but at some point my mum found me and she was super cross with me, she was standing over me shouting in my face and scolding me for doing this to her. I also remember very clearly thinking that this is not what it's like on telly. There was no hug, no embrace, no relief, no concern and not even an ask about what made me do it. All I remember is feeling like shit as I was dragged home.

Is it wrong that I feel so sorry for myself? That child was 40 years ago but I remember it like it was yesterday. I was so desperate to get away but my plan was foiled. I can still feel the feeling, I felt a part of me died that day, possibly my innocence. I didn't attempt another escape until I was 21, and that ended badly too.

I 'escaped' physically when I was 18 to go to university but I never escaped properly in my head. (I'm going to have a damn good try at doing it now though.)

Know what you mean Treacle about not being able to stop thinking about them. Maybe we have too, though, to get it all out. I'm just not sure where the healthy line is between working through it and obsessing about it.

have to

I'm 100% with you on the 'obsessing' thing. I am constantly finding myself mulling it all over, the horrible things my M shouted at me in her last rage; the bullshit she's probably telling everybody about me.... and when I'm not doing that I'm getting memories pop up from nowhere.

Todays one was remembering my best friend in first school. She would come round to play with me and my older sister would ask her if she'd like to go and play in her room to see her makeup & stuff. Friend would be flattered and say yes & disappear for ages - I wouldn't be allowed in. The first time I got upset snd told M that my sis had taken my friend away. My M just said she couldn't force her to play with me if she preferred my sis and I'd just have to find something else to do. So after that when it happened I wouldn't bother saying anything.

It sounds like nothing now but I can still feel how devastated I felt that my own best friend didn't even want me - and my M's lack of reaction just made me think it must be my fault.

And now I'm thinking what would I do if that happened with my DC). And it just wouldn't, because they'd never be so unkind to each other in the first place.

Another brain dump - when I was a young teen I got taken on holiday with a friend and her family - it was an amazing holiday (my family didn't do holidays...). I didn't want it to end and remember daydreaming about my friend's parents adopting me .

Whilst we were away, out of the blue, my DF had a stroke. All I remember is my M coming to collect me from my friend's house after my holiday and I walked into their sitting room to hear my mum in full flow, telling my friend's mum this 'funny' story about how their holiday had been a disaster (with lots of eye rolling etc) because they had got up one morning and my dad was acting as if he was drunk, staggering and slurring his words, although he'd not drunk anything (so was clearly seriously ill). My mum was saying how embarrassing it was because the hotel receptionist must have thought he was pissed, haha.... And the icing on the cake was that my mum decided the best course of action was not to call a doctor or take him to A&E. No she made him lie on the back seat of the fucking car for five hours so they could get home and give up on their 'farce of a holiday'. And she was really angry because my dad obviously couldn't drive (NO, BECAUSE HE WAS HAVING A FUCKING STROKE!!) which meant even though she didn't like driving long distances, she had to drive on motorways to get them home - and he was being no help with directions either. Oh but what a story it was to tell afterwards.

I have always fucking hated her for that little gem. But I have never confronted her because it was so bad, I knew there was no point.

Yes, I am with you Spare I know I definitely need to stop obsessing, I really do and I do think in time that I will. At the moment as this is all new to me i'm allowing myself time to dwell. It's hard, I want to pay respect to myself as a child (I want to tell her that she was normal and her feelings and actions were justified), I want to understand that my reactions weren't always free will. I want to examine why I made bad choices, why I was attracted to certain people, why I failed to stand up for myself, why I did lots of things that I perhaps should not have done. A whole tonne of other whys are going round in my head.

I also know that i'm 47 now, i've got a chance of making things right and i've never felt this excited about anything before. I'm torn though, if I could take a 'forget it all pill', as painful as it is i'm not entirely convinced that I would. I'm getting a strange kind of strength from remembering what i'd forgotten. It's as though i've buried it before as it was too painful to deal with but now i'm ready to cope with it, or at least i'm not ashamed anymore to keep it to myself.

Flump I'm really hating on the eye rolling. My mum does that too so I know how it feels. I'm so sorry that your mum turned your dad's stroke into a a story about her, that's awful.

My dad had a stroke a year or so ago but my mum didn't tell me until she discovered he wouldn't be out of hospital in time for our arranged meet up and she'd not be able to brush it under the carpet. I know my dad is some sort of enabler or whatever but I can't help but feel for him. Yes, he must be weak, got something (goodness knows what though) out of it but jeez, that bitch has no compassion.

I didn't ever have friends around at my house, it was a strange house, even I didn't want to be in it. I seem to have an issue with abandonment though, my, I dunno, thought process I suppose is that yeah people do like me but soon they'll get bored of me and move on. It takes me all the strength and will I have to push those feelings away when it comes to my OH, my son and my few long term friends. My OH is mates with all sorts of friends from school, college, workplaces etc, I maybe 'let ' people drop off the radar because i'm expecting them to leave me at some point anyway. Is this a thing?

Thank goodness I found this thread and thank you for starting it too much.
I don't feel up to writing here at the moment, but will do in time.

Treacle yes I think that's a thing. I don't hear from a friend for a couple of weeks and I start wondering what I've done wrong

Wow so glad I came on here tonight you are all writing things where I'm nodding going yes I could have written that... and that... but I never thought of it that way, but it's scarily accurate.

badtaste about your DSis being able to take your friends away - mine could do this too. We would go to someones house, she would whisper in the ears of other girls, suddenly I was no longer allowed to play, I would tell my mother but she would be mid-flow with whoever we had gone to see and just tell me to sit on my own in the corner with nothing to do. I would often even be called a trouble-maker, in her view I 'must' have done something to cause it..

spare same here going to Uni - it took years to realise I had carried it all with me, probably much more so than the people I had left behind. Even now, though it was half a lifetime ago, I still have a sense of shock at seeing everyone else just moved on while I was away dwelling on what happened during my childhood and teens - they got married, had kids, lived whole lives, even those who were so hurtful, while I feel like I was/am stuck in place.

Also same about the TV and not having the same cultural references as other kids.

YY sleepy and badtaste about not being allowed to do things because DM was worried.. but then she didn't even notice when I had a life-threatening medical condition and should have gone for tests.. or was suicidal at 12.. or sexually assaulted at 10 because she met a new guy and suddenly wanted me to go out and roam with his very streetwise kids when I had never been out of her sight before (she wanted me to go out so they could stay in and have sex all afternoon but at the time it was 'for my benefit' to suddenly go outside more).

If I stepped outside of what she thought was acceptable or I challenged what she was saying she would then use intimidation - this. A lot of my memories involve her flying at e in a rage, smacking me when I was younger. As I got into my teens I became sullen/rebellious (suprise!) and I remember she would do the same, or later she would turn round in the front seat of the car and just drive her nails into my shoulder and demand I apologise to her for rudeness or we weren't going anywhere. It wasn't ok for me to be un-communicative, but it was ok for her to attack me. She still talks about my whole life growing up as me being 'difficult', how put upon she was, what an easy child my sister was..

Anyway, just thank you. Sometimes reading your stuff just turns a light on in my head.

Scruff - Mum likes to make out she's a doting grandmother, but complains that she doesn't see the DC - this too.

Sorry, was that an inappropriate and long post? I think I have massive trouble knowing what's appropriate - in one of his videos Richard Grannon talks about people who are really naive/immature well into their 30s and I think that's me. Stems from having not really been parented.. and a stack of stressful life situations in my 20s/30s leading me to feel like my brain is fried. I have barely any social compass.. and am probably focusing on myself way too much.. I'm going to stop now.

It's been running for years Carrie and this is just the latest but thank you, I am really chuffed to be carrying the baton this time. We're always about when you want to talk.

champagne it's all good. I would say on this thread you can say what you like I know what you mean about being immature at a late age though. I often felt like I had to act socially naive so as not to annoy my mother and it hardened into a lack of confidence in my behaviour in lots of situations. Will post more later (kids are now up!)

champers I love long posts, and short ones. I just love it that people can talk in any way they like, it's the thought of bottling it all up for any longer that feels so wrong.

treaclechin im glad that rang true with you too. It's so nice to see elsewhere that I'm not crazy and her behaviour was not just a figment of my imagination. ( ive been told by her I have an overactive imagination!)
I've been reading back on this thread and current posts. A lot of what you all day I can relate too. It's been hard for me to post. Just been lost on what to say.

I can totally relate to the obsessing. I've just started unravelling and it seems to want to keep unravelling in my head. Although I'm trying not to upturn all my past memories. Too much to work through atm.
I can also relate to the naive part. I feel I'm very naive, especially with relationships. A lot or people in my life have commented how naive I am. Which is true. I always want to see the good in people, I don't know where this comes from. Probably trying to please my parents and always trying to see the good in them. Who knows.
I've been in a few abusive relationships. And most relationships I've had the guy had been disrespectful to me in some way or another. I believe this is probably from my parents relationship. I always used to want what they had and recently I looked at their relationship and it's just abusive but they do a good job of covering it up.