Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I am so tired and fed up. DD (10) has said she doesn't want to see her Dad, and she has good reason based on her past experiences of him. She's seen him for 1 hour (supervised) in the last 4 months.

But she doesn't want to say it to his face, and I don't blame her. I'm sticking up for her, keeping him away from her. He thinks I'm just lying.
So yesterday he approached her at the school bus stop and told her to get in the car. She refused. They had a chat, and now he's even more convinced that she wants to see him.

She's obviously giving out mixed messages - doesn't want to say hurtful things to him, but is also mixed up and torn between missing him and not wanting to see him.

Don't know what I'm after really, other than a shoulder! Just can't face court. Especially as that would mean she's got to say to a stranger all those things which she hates saying.

Obviously there's a whole back story etc. I've offered mediation following threats to me, but he refuses.
And breathe...

hey Basking - it can take a while to work it out! it took me a long while. We work on the assumption that they think like us, believe similar things to us but they don't. Like there being no intent behind the words. What do you think he says them for? The most shocking thing I discovered that literally shook me rigid was that he was totally in control of his anger, I believed he was in a terrible state and had completely lost control, but once I learnt this, and i took a little control I literally watched him change tactic mid flow!!! He could run Anger Management Classes, but he definitely didn't need them. I'm thinking it the same with his comments... if you let him know that these particular remarks are upsetting to you or that you are finding yourself walking on eggshells around him and his reaction is to carry on regardless, then that would be your answer I would think?

Hi all. Long time so see. days of the late nights vixens singing in the pub across the moor.. seems long long way ago.

Just wanted to contribute a word on courts and children. Guards ofcourt will say they have to share everything that children say with the court, but things don't have to be shared with the abuser if its considered that would put the child at further risk of retribution, and therefore further EA or isolate them from mother [is my understanding].

I told them there were things I could not and would not say for fear of him using this against DC, or also to isolate DC from me, which is something he commonly did, so I discovered later, and still does, despite court order against him.

oh you sound exhausted Bizkit - you don't have to go to court? he can take you to court, would he? Why would he? Sorry if I have missed the glaringly obvious, I haven't had chance to read back. I think staying is exhausting you and will keep on doing it. I think any that have left would agree with me that suddenly there's loads of energy! but you have to take your own time and make your own choices, everything in your own time there.

me, i'm still recovering, still hiding for fear of bumping into him, even those that know him.

Its all gone very quiety in here since I posted.

I hope thats because there is relative calm and peace in lives at the moment.

Is anyone out there still suffering the after-effects of the EA?

Hey sugar (don't mean to sound quite so sleazy saying that!)
I had noticed that it had gone very quiet too, can only imagine that the other regulars are dealing with their own stuff in their own way right now. Or else things are going well for them at the moment and they don't need the support of the thread right now. It does tend to go in peaks and troughs with activity. I used to be on the thread all the time when I was in the thick of things, but now just pop in occasionally (and lurk mostly). I know the run up to Christmas can be a hard time for many, so I imagine that (unfortunately ) there will be more activity before too long.

How are you doing at the moment? Sorry, not sure of your full story due to only dipping in and out. It sounds like you are out, which is fantastic, but it's not a straightforward path I know.

hi all, sorry I haven't posted in a while just don't seem to have a lot of spare time recently.
Good news is fw seems to have accepted it's over, this is likely due to him meeting another woman which I've said all along, that he would never leave or even accept a separation until he had someone else lined up.
bad news is the likely hood of him moving soon are slim due to finances, so I have to put up with him seeing this other woman but coming and going from here as he pleases, I can't move on easily and I can't sort my own finances out.
He is seeing the kids less and less, and it frustrates me so much as he used them against me for years, he wasn't gonna be a part time dad, he won't see them as much blah blah blah, he is the one choosing to spend time with the new line up instead of them I ain't stopping him, can't say I'm surprised, it's a repeat of what he had done before. I can see his behaviour changing already.

I'm just trying to stay positive and do as much as I can with the children and I have felt a lot happier the past week or so as I can feel something finally changing.
Xmas will be tough but will try and make it good for the kids like I have been for years but at least I know this will be the last year I have to pretend to be happy.

how's everyone else doing?

Bizkit hi. Him accepting it is a step in the right direction anyway. Frustrating for you to have to put up with him still though.

My stbx is still pulling the same tricks, still the same nonsense. No huge change at all, really. I'm just working on changing my reaction to it - very much "meh" rather than getting irritated, with varying success. I often do have those "what in the world is he thinking??" moments, but I'll probably have more of those in the future, the way he is going.

leaving is a great big first step, I've found. there are so many more to follow.have you found this?

I didn't know you were still dipping in, we've shared some good times in the pub on the moors! on the far side of FOTTFSOFOATFOSM! with the cheesy wotsits and the rest.
i hope you are doing well in your recovery F xx

Hi.
This time if year is especially hard. But I have made some positive steps. I am going to my parents for Xmas. I have told my sons 24 and 19 that's what I'm doing. I think they are going to spend Xmas day with me and Boxing Day with h.
The build up to telling them my decision was unbearable. But they were great.
H is moving out early jan.
Hope everyone else is ok xx

Hi all, glad you've resurrected this thread! I'm, as usual, in limbo. But I need some advice/validation here on a situation: I've booked a trip to see my parents/sister in the USA in a week's time. I haven't been back for ages. H should have been supportive as he'd suggested I go but of course when I actually booked it (without asking/begging/involving him) he's furious that he wasn't asked. Ok. Here's the problem, I am going with DD and he doesn't know. DD hasn't spoken to him for 4 months after he behaved appallingly towards her. H has been badgering me to tell DD to 'stop this silliness' and reconcile but of course I won't, and I've spoken to her but she is holding to her terms (that he gets anger management). Friday H found out I'd been to see DD at her uni, without my telling him (I did this a few weeks ago). He went ballistic and said I was deceitful, that it was the worst betrayal. Anyway-- if he finds out I've been to the USA with her it will be impossible, right? Am I right in thinking that I should have non molestation order/papers served for our return (16th or so of December) as this will be awful, even if I tell him that my sister invited DD and paid for everything?

And really-- I should NOT have to live like this, full stop. I don't think I can wait, going to get things in place now. I do feel sort of bad, he seemed so upset at my being deceitful but wtf am I supposed to do? Choose between them? He says I am a bad mother because I cannot control the kids. She is at uni and technically an adult!

FFF glad you've made the pan, hope all goes well over the holiday. I'm worried as its a time when tempers fray and there's not much to do, evidently DV gets worse over Christmas / New Years. Sorry, I haven't read back, hope all ok with those who've had the courage to leave already

If your DD is in uni, she is an adult. You do not need to "clear" any plans that you have with her with your H. No, you should not have to live like this. If you're talking about choosing between your H and your DD, I think I'd be choosing DD tbh. He sounds awful. Shame you and your DD can't just extend your stay in the states until after Christmas and avoid him altogether. (although I understand he'd be literally nuclear when you got back)

I've had to come to terms with not seeing my family or friends in the states again (or at least me visiting them there) as my dcs are still young, and ex will never ever agree to giving me anything in writing stating I can take them out of the country for a visit. My mum's health is not good enough for her to come here, so the only way I'll ever see her again is if I go there and that would mean the dcs must come with me (ex is abusive and dcs cannot stay with him at all). So it's not going to happen. She and I have already discussed this as I didn't want her to think that I don't want to see her, but that I simply can't.

That'snotmyname. - I understand your dilemma. I would either a) tell him that your sister invited and paid for dd because she she was worried about you travelling so far alone and had hoped that by doing so would bring you and dd closer again. Or b) text him from the airport saying omg I can't believe what a fab thing my sis has done. She's only gone and organised for dd to accompany me.

I think you will be in for shit whichever way you play it tbh. You know fine well that you shouldn't have to clear plans with him but unfortunately the reality is you always have and we have become conditioned to act a certain way. We are all in that same boat. So don't beat yourself up.

For the record I would have done the same thing. Booked and paid for DS and not told h.

everyone sounds to be making change! good and scarey

non-mol ready for return sounds like a brilliant plan. Keeps him away from spreading himself all over Xmas.

well done for plans FFF, its a bit daunting without them

yes, sugar, is quite sleezy ha! hadn't thought of it that way.

change does seem to be coming my way but I was planning it, seeing dv unit, seeing solicitor, then filing after xmas- and fw just annoyed me with a text and I responded by telling him exactly what I thought of him and how I felt he was keeping me prisoner by refusing to agree to end marriage.

he's now said he'll go away for xmas - heard that before - I've told him in no uncertain terms not to talk about this with our dd because I very much doubt he will leave!

fun evening ahead. sigh. he could feel me withdrawing and not engaging and just had to up the ante so I responded. But in some ways I'm glad I've told him and not having to put up with unwanted affections!

anyone in this place - split but living together in no mans land?!

sus14 do you want to wait until after the holidays to take some action? were you planning secretly, then gave the game away with your text, or is it something you're discussing/throwing around with him at the moment? I just wonder because DV incidents seem to increase over Xmas so please prepare.

Do you think he will do anything rash if he knows you are planning to leave?

I've never looked forward to Xmas less, than this year! I should love the everything about it but now I have no idea where I should be, moved out? at house playing happy family? at inlaws please god no not that we have been invited but when there are other people around H behaves, for the most part.

I'm digging myself into a stupid hole. Just spoke to solicitors with whom I'd wished to set up non-mol but I was given the super hard sell and asked over and over... 'do you want to be safe or not' when I wouldn't commit to pay 2k on the spot. I know they get busy but it was very pressured. I know from WA that non mol will not guarantee safety. H spent a night in a cell + got a caution and it infuriated him so how can that lawyer say to me, with a straight face, that a non-mol will definitely make him a nice person, he'll be so so scared of me turning him in to police that he will behave impeccably, etc then the lawyer says that they'll advise him to get a lawyer then all communication will go through lawyers, I'm hearing the money add up here, as we'd be living in the same house but ostensibly ONLY ALLOWED TO COMMUNICATE VIA LAWYERS who would probably be charging by the minute. WA have advised I would probably be better off spending my money (that I don't really have) moving to another place. I feel really shabby now, don't feel that the lawyers were on my side at all, just trying to 'close the deal' on the phone.

Well we've been here a couple of times this year and each time he has surprisingly not got angry, just very contrite and calm. So I've got reeled in. He's just called to speak to dd and been v. Nice . So actually it may help make Christmas ok as his behaviour was steadily getting worse. I don't think he 'll believe it until he gets the divorce petition.

thatsnot it sounds like logistically we are in similar positions. I also can't move out as don't have the finances and he won't. So it has held me back all year just trying to work out how to serve him and live with him. I think I am going to write petition myself to save money but see if I,can get it sent to a solicitor who can then give it to me with a letter warning him to behave etc. then I can leave it one Friday night and head away for a couple of nights with dd. not sure what else to do be honest. If it were just me I would borrow money and rent but it would be a studio flat and I just don't think dd would cope too well with so much change- so going to try and force him out first. I ve come to conclusion that this has held me back for a year and I can feel my mental health starting to fail and so I just need to go ahead now regardless of cost etc. I feel quite desperate - not suicidal but like I have no options. That feeling so aptly described - feeling trapped in a ever shrinking box by abuse. I just need to make the leap now. There are quite a few threads going on at the moment which are helping me enormously. to you.

He's just got home and asked for a hug- I got a bit outraged and said- does what I say mean nothing- do you not hear me?! Then of course he ranted and raved about how I would ruin dds life , his, the world was ending.. So now I m going to have to,be 2 hours late to work as I don't want to leave him with her in the morning as he ll tell her I ve ruined Christmas and upset her by telling her he won't be around. And I'll eat my hat If he's not here over Christmas! So many threats like this , they hardly dent me and I think dd is starting to ignore them!
It dawned on me that he actually does nit really believe I would ever leave. And that's because he doesn't give any validation to how I might feel!

ladies stuck in homes with abusive partner that just won't budge please try calling the NCDV line who can help you set up a Non-Mol and possibly a residency too. He will then have to leave and cannot come back.

They were absolutely brilliant when I spoke to them and told me exactly what to do or they can prepare for you and you take it.

i have spoken to them- a year ago when he threw a drink in my face (with ginger in it - so pain in my eyes was unbelievable!) - and they were brilliant and very clear but I was too late to log it as they said it had to be within 10 days. Basically i was still a bit unsure - but now - I would act immediately on something like that and get the injunction. But of course now I;m standing up for myself more it's all verbal and none of the physical.

But i do think they are very good easy to speak to and very clear advice especially when you;re spaghetti headed.

just to say, to add to what you have said Sus - I didn't log anything. I literally turned up at court, and it was extremely hard but I wrote a statement of abuses on the DC and myself.

None of it was physical contact type abuse, but there was plenty of threatening and intimidation, pursuing and blocking, endless ranting and obviously abuse to the DC. It was issued there and then, ex parte. I was already out of it by this time, but nothing was logged with the police at all.

I was a mess and had no idea what I was doing, i just did what they told me and turned up and i had one granted for a year to stay away, which has since been extended.

Interesting thanks, that's exactly what he was doing up until a year ago,when I called the police. Now it's just occasional outbursts and low level nastiness. He does shout at my dd and tell her not to tell me or I'll make him leave, I figure there must be some law against emotionally abusing her like that, she,s 6. I never tell him she's told me as I want her to have one reliable parent- but it's made me very clear I need to end this. I will talk to them and see if there is anything I can do. My friend reckons he ll leave as soon as I file but I m nit so sure as he can't afford to rent- although we have no mortgage so I could pay him rent for this place which would make it viable until we come tO sell.

Glad you re put and thanks for sharing how you did it- I never thought something could be so hard.

Out I mean, not put!

I'm actually starting to visualise my life with dd as a calming mechanism when I get panicky, I find a house we can afford, and imagine our stuff in it, and our life. I watched a bit of obsessive compulsive cleaners earlier and felt panicky as he is a horder, his flat was awful, I m constantly cleaning up. Just the idea of having my own space would be incredible! I can't stand it and had it turn off the prog as I realised that would be how he would go back go living. Going it go for minimum overnights for dd. I ve realised I've been responsible for him for so long and I m already shaking off that oppression but it's terrifying!

I think it's important to remember that a non-molestation order is simply a paper tool. It is not a physical barrier. It is a tool to allow police to arrest someone that is continually violating an order. It relies on the victim reporting every violation and pressing charges, and relies on the police to follow up on it. Too often a non-molestation order is acquired, and the victim doesn't report every violation, as they don't want to get the abuser in further trouble or because they are worried about retaliation. But not reporting violations in this situation only weakens the order.

Thanks so much to all of you for discussion/details of non mol I've reached the end of my tether with H. I am going away on Sunday and he effectively doesn't know. I told him I was going but apart from a few bouts of explosive anger I've had nothing, no questions re flights, where i am going, how long staying, wishing my family well, etc- nothing. So I'm just going to disappear. I'm cutting the trip short (8 days rather than 12) so I can come back to sort lawyers, also I'm worried about leaving cat for so long although DS is here to look after him. But I'm worried about leaving DS too he's 21. Will be fine! If H doesn't screw everything up that is.

alice just wanted to say, it's been many years (12+) since I've been to the USA and funnily enough I haven't really felt cut off, thanks to the Internet. But glad to be going all the same.

I just hope plans go ok... Yikes. Haven't bought travel insurance yet. Lots to sort and pack. I don't think I will arrange non mol for the return, but I don't think I will come back to the house having gone in circles a million times I am fed up and need to do something, so will just have the papers served and see how it goes.