Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Still haven't had this 'talk' I think he is just playing for time as he doesn't want me to Take legal route, he is also flirting around with someone he works with, am going to try and encourage the talk in the next few days as I can't stand all the niceties when he is flirting around specially when I don't know what he is going to say yet, if he says he ain't moving I think I'm gonna lose it

bizkit I've said this before but it all comes down to having the courage of your convictions. If you're ready for this step then take control of it because he obviously isn't going to. You really need to say it and mean it and be prepared to take whatever steps necessary after that, even if that means finding your own home.

When I initially told KD I wanted to separate, he figured if he was 'nice' for a while (all the time stabbing me in the back to 'friends' to get them on side), and sat tight, that I'd give up on the idea and be put tidily back 'in my place'. When it became evident he intended to do nothing, then I knew it was either down to me to make the move or carry on with the toxic half life I was living. There was no contest

I have to agree. He's not going to leave because he thinks you won't, so he figures he has you trapped.

Hi
Can I update u all on my situation.
H asked if I had seen solicitor which I said yes.
He has been behaving very oddly. He says he has almost stopped drinking. He is suffocating me with his mr nice guy.
He has enrolled in a 30 week counselling course for DV and ea. But...
It's all a little late for me.
I just don't know how to say it though.
I have done the talk. I've said I feel differently. I have been in this situation so many times before where he has promised he will change.
Now I don't think it matters to me whether he changes or not.

Does that sound awful

Thanks curt, I do lack the courage I know, and I'm not having much luck with finding another place that I can easily move to.
I think if he says he won't move for so many months or any kind of timeframe I will have to be brave and take the court route, or he is just gonna take me for a mug again
I'm feeling very irritated at the mo after finding out about all this flirting, I realise he has to move on aswell but don't live here and drag heels when he obviously likes someone else for all I know could already be seeing her.
If it was the other way round he would be going mad and probably be trying to find any guy I would speak to to warn him off.

bizkit I would hazard a guess that this 'flirting' is also part of his ploy - what you're feeling right now, is exactly what he wants you to feel. He's saying oh look, you're losing me with all this silly talk of separating, other people find me attractive and I have options other than you..etc. It bloody hurts, I know, KD did exactly the same. But the more I planned for the separation, the less I cared, because I knew I was doing the right thing.

Maybe you're not quite there yet, believe me it was one of the worst and hardest decisions I ever made, but ultimately if they're not going to do anything, the decision does come down to you. Of course after I left he could play the victim, I was the bitch who'd broken up the family, and he played it very well. But he was wrong - he was the one who broke up the family with his horrendous behaviour.

I know I was lucky to get wind of this house, but I still left with only the DC belongings and a few things of my own. I had to sell a few of my belongings to get a fridge freezer and washer, people lent me furniture etc. Then KD defaulted on the rent on the family home and told me I could come take what I wanted as he was leaving it all. I asked a neighbour with a van if he'd help me go get it and I finally had 'stuff' in the house.

I had to mentally gear myself up for the final split. I had asked him to leave a few times before - he'd spend a day or two at MIL's and then I let him come back. I was tired of the pattern, as he promised changes, but the last time I let him come back I knew he wasn't going to change, but I was scared of that final break, and still had that slight daft hope floating about.

But the last time, I had to tell myself constantly "this is it, you are NOT letting him come back, we are DONE." It was scary, but oh my god I walked around the house for days enjoying the peace and quiet. Yes, the dcs made noise, but there was no SHOUTING, no RANTING. Bliss.

To be fair, he left and went to MIL's, I suspect, because he thought I'd want him to come back in a few days. But if he had refused to leave, I would have had to make arrangements to take the dcs and find another place for us to live. I just didn't feel we were safe anymore.

Biz kit - I don't know where you find that final bit of courage to leave. Because in your heart you know it is exactly that.... Final.

Good luck to you x

That's exactly it. He figured if he threw a few scraps and crumbs my way and refused to budge, that I'd give up on the silly notion of separating. He vastly underestimated me and my drive to be free of him.

Like alice I still had that shred of hope, hell I still had it a few weeks back he pulled out all the stops for a reconciliation, but I knew DC and I would be far happier on our own. To not walk on eggshells, to not have to deal with him slamming about, to not be shouted and screamed at, controlled and manipulated, lied to, to not have my DC witness his destructive anger..I can't even begin to express how amazing it feels.

I think it's important to remember that we will ALWAYS have that little shred of hope. It's our weakness. And we need to recognise it and give it the respect that it deserves - it has the power to make us question everything. But there is a HUGE difference between having a shred of hope and reality. The reality is that no matter how much hope you have, he is not going to change.

As Curt and I have both discovered recently, even a good year after separating, that little flicker of hope, combined with an onslaught of charm and manipulation from an ex, can be a scary combination - inducing fog and spaghetti head. Never underestimate it.

I need to talk about dh. I don't know if he is emotionally abusive, he ticks a lot of boxes, but there seems to be no intent behind his words, he is unaware, I think, there is no master plan of control. I feel sorry for him, but he has hurt me. He is never to blame.

Landlord is coming over to pick up rent fw not here wondering whether to tell him what's going on but scared, if fw finds out he will lose it

I didn't speak to the landlord in the end. He came round on a different day when fw was due home any minute so thought better of it.
Things are getting worse again nice ness has stopped mainly due to me getting irritated by it as the whole time he has been messaging this woman and obviously has no intention of having this 'talk' any time soon.he is just trying to keep me sweet so I don't continue down the solicitor route.

Went out with some friends I haven't seen for a while and were shocked by what I was telling them they think I should report some of his behaviour so its on record in case something else major happens.

Thinking of saying to him that we are having the talk tonight whether he wants to or not and if we don't I'm taking the solicitors advice and applying to the court but it's easier said than done.
I think I will mention how his behaviour is becoming very worrying and I'm concerned about his temper.

Hi all, just posting again to join you all as I am feeling completely and utterly at a loss. I told my fw I wanted a divorce, saw a mediator, they wrote to him, he ignored and started being nice, still is sort of, we went out for a day on sunday and I realised I just had nothing to say to him. So not only do I not want to share a bed with him, not want to go on holiday with him, I also don't want to spend days out with him.

Last night I got home from work - he had been at home looking after dd, house was a mess, reminded me of what it was like when he was a year out of work and did no cleaning up or anything, so I had a little moan (not a shout, quite literally a little nag), not in front of dd, I went up to get her ready for bed and he came up and yelled at me in front of her .

two things were interesting about this and may yet push me to actually pull my finger out and file for divorce

1. she ran out the room and slammed the door, I went to comfort her and said it wasn't her he was cross was - she told me she was upset as he was shouting at me - but he's upsetting you mummy. I hadn't really thought about how she felt about seeing me yelled at. So maybe it would be ok to leave, she would be upset but she wouldn't have this fear of eggshells for seeing ME shouted at.
2. I asked him later why, if he was cross, he couldn't have just waited half an hour and had it out with me after dd was asleep. Why did it have to be in front of her?

is it really weak of me to wait until the new year to file. I just feel that it'll be so complicated with Christmas and all. I could draft it, get it ready to go, and assuming that Christmas will bring rows as per usual, be easy enough to get motivation to file in jan. But have it all ready. I've already seen a sol, not sure if I need to see again to look at petition, advise her that this won't be done through mediation.

Just went for a job that would have made it easier to leave as would have more ££ and didn't get it, came close.

Just finding it all so hard, there is not one part of my life apart from dd that doesnt' fill me with misery. Even my parents are a nightmare. dd went there the other week, was a bit tricky, my dad told her she wasn't welcome in their house (she's 6 ffs). Fed up with everyone and everything.

I know I need to take some control here

Just checking in. basking - I sympathise. Mine was never to blame, either. He believed himself to be a good person, with entirely good intentions. He clearly thought a lot less of me - I could never match up, although to my shame looking back I put a lot of effort into trying! But as you say, at the end of the day, you know how it's affecting you an despite all the head fucking you can still see that. And he refuses to.

Bizkit - wishing you strength. It's a very draining way to live.

Wow, sus, sounds like you haven't got a lot of support. I think it's OK to wait till after Christmas. You can do a lot of planning in that time. Not to mention the mental detaching that you already seem to be doing very well! Just bear in mind that after then there will be another hurdle and in the end there will never be a good time to leave. But after you do, you'll look back and see they were all good enough! Wishing you strength, too.

for you both. And for all lurkers.

Hi all, I'm a complete mess, sort of, at the moment, had thought I'd stay away until I had actually achieved something but it's always for me, one step forward and two backwards I told H last week that I wanted to separate, said I wanted a divorce, said I'd seen a solicitor and he calls me a scheming bitch, says it is all 'threats with menaces' (wtf??) and so am precisely nowhere. I've got all docs ready to go.

sus yes do consider your DD. I have no idea how badly my kids' lives have been marred I think with young ones you are between a rock and a hard place as you don't want to break up the family but at the same time all of us on this thread know that we should prioritize creating an abuse-free zone, and what I thought I was doing all the years my DCs were growing up (and I didn't call it abuse at the time, just him being a dickhead) was to smooth things over, make it easy for him in effect collude with the abuse.

So new year, new start?

Now both DCs hate him, (the are 19 and 21 so not DCs, more like young adults now) DD hasn't spoken to him since July when he got agressive with her. And now he's texted me an 'utimatum' that I need to deal with her, she's playing games, etc, she won't be getting any money unless she speaks to him (he texts her up to 10 times/day, calls, she refuses to answer). We've always 'joked' that we had to be nice to him because he earned all the money... I should have nipped that in the bud but didn't know how.

This morning H was melancholy because he'd heard that an aquaintance had died, mid 50's, heart attack-- v sad, not a close friend but someone we'd know quite well when the kids were small, kids same ages, and we'd lived nearby. I have to admit that my first emotion was slight jelousy that it hadn't happened to H. Terrible, I know. And he used the story to paint himself as a tragic hero, what if it happened to him and wouldn't DD be sorry that she'd rejected all his calls, etc. DD made it quite clear that she wouldn't talk to him until he agreed to go to therapy, but he refuses to consider this as he doesn't believe that he has a problem... in fact he specifically thinks that it is me, DD and DS who have the problem (we are SELFISH and UNCARING ie we don't orient our lives around him and what he wants).

Sorry for the essay, just got me thinking! It was my 50th birthday last week and I'd wanted to be away from him by that time. We couldn't have a family celebration because the kids won't talk to him. I couldn't plan a party because mutual friends know we're having 'problems' (not that I would have planned a big party anyway but still not an option) I am not bereft of celebrations but am disappointed in myself.

charlotte good to hear from you!

Aw, thats, you don't have to prove yourself here or feel bad for not getting further yet. We're your support, not your examiners! Will write more later, am busy with DCs just now.

Me again - DCs all in bed and I'm relaxing in front of a log fire. Lovely!

I can see two real positives in your post, thats. Firstly, you've told him you want to separate. Don't underestimate what you've achieved there. Of course, he's pretending it's nothing, but, as you already knew, you don't need his blessing!

The second postive is that DD has clearly had enough. Maybe having space from him as a young adult feels like an escape - it always helps the spaghetti head, doesn't it? How sad though, his desperate manipulations to reel her back in. Better a poorer life but free from his abuse, though, imo!

So, take stock on the last year and congratulate yourself for the steps you've made towards your freedom. Now, what's next? Was your sol helpful? Do you have a plan to get your own space? That will make your life so so much easier and better. While you're still living together, do you feel strong enough to ignore his needs: just feed yourself, look after your laundry and so on?

Not having a great time, told him I was concerned about his temper and he has basically tried to make out Im just as bad cos I shout at him sometimes when we argue and that upsets my DD. We were arguing as he said he can't afford to move out, feel very drained today

That is a real headfuck. Don't believe him. You will be wondering if there's any truth in what he says and meanwhile he totally ignores what you said.

The only way to stop him draining you is to disengage. (Much easier when you're not sharing a house, unfortunately.)

It's not your fault. None of this is. Life can be and should be a whole lot better than this.

Bizkit that is so typical. Of course he'll call you abusive, you don't always 'behave' yourself.

My H often calls me abusive when I stand up for myself sadly I realize that he truly believes this, it's not a blocking or diverting tactic. He clearly does not see how his actions/treatment of me/the DCs is wrong in any way he thinks that he's the head of the household because he earns more money and therefore he should have total authority, while behaving in any old way he pleases and we should put up with it. He really doesn't see anything wrong! I'd rather that he was doing it on purpose, so to speak, as I feel that if/when I ever split he is going to be so confused and angry, I just wish he could see how he is... I occasionally act 'back' at him the way he acts at me ie sepaking disrespectfully, rude, grabbing TV remote control out of his hand (he does that to me), he hates it so he should get the message but he doesn't. DD and I did a little test (a long time ago) and went a few days without saying 'thank you' ie when handed something it felt WEIRD and wrong!! H has never ever ever said thank you for a cup of tea or any bit of politeness he says NOTHING AT ALL. It's not even on purpose, it is as if he doesn't notice.

Charlotte thanks! I went for dinner with some friends (yes! just the girls, H hated it but I wasn't having it... my bday celebration) last night and they were saying how much I'd changed over the past year-- it is true, my situation is now totally different. Mainly because I now have a job and more surety that he is actually abusive, but am annoyed with myself that I'm still here

Feel like giving up, been really down again this past few days and just thinking it would be easier to just stay as we are and I will sacrifice my happiness, ask the Dr for something to get me through the days maybe.

Council tax hasn't been paid again asked him several times this weekend to do it, keeps saying he will, same story every month.
I'm in my overdraft again and have told him that and made it clear I need money, has he given me any...course not, even though he got paid Friday
Also been messaging other girl daily.

Can't be bothered to fight and go to court etc don't have it in me I'm tired.

All quite understandable, Bizkit. I sympathise. I think the idea of having to go to court is a very daunting one, with all the uncertainty of whether the true story will be seen. And now is a time to be thinking hibernating thoughts. Maybe it's worth lying low for a while and gathering strength?

On the other hand, is it possible to gather strength with this sort of stuff draining you daily? Have you spoken to Women's Aid about plans for leaving? Would that sort of support help you?

There is no right answer, really. Sometimes it seems like we're damned if we do, damned if we don't.