Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I'd ask for a year. 6 months isn't that long, especially when you're not seeing him every day, so he can hide things easier. And if his track record is 8 months, you definitely want longer than that.

rephrase that... sorry... Not ASK for a year. TELL him you are not willing to discuss it for a year. And until then you are not waiting around for him (otherwise he will assume it's a yes), that you will simply re-evaluate in a year based on where you are at that point. If you're in another relationship, then obviously it'll be a no.

We should have time to talk again tomorrow, he suggested taking DC to the Sealife Centre. It's a bit of a trek and he isn't used to travelling a distance with 3 toddlers so that should be an eye-opener for him, and I'll be intetested to see how well he copes/if he can maintain his positive behaviour for the two hour train journey.

One thing I do know is I won't be pressured into a decision. If he shows he can properly step up with DC then I'll start considering everything else.

Good idea. I know that KD talked a good game, and was able to keep up the act for a couple hours. But I could see things starting to fray, and I notice his attention wandered from the dcs regularly. He spent more time talking to me than engaging with the dcs. I suspect he looked at seeing the dcs as time working on me IYSWIM. I notice that now that I've told him no, he's not bothered to contact me about the dcs.

Just remember Curt it wasn't long ago that he was kicking off while you were on holiday. This was on the 11th of August, less than 3 wks ago...
.........................
I like your idea of imagining a day with KD and he sounds scarily like mine. Glued to the laptop 24/7 with no interest in me or DC or anything that was going on around him, unless it disturbed him then huffing and shouting, then slamming and silent treatment. Refusing to have a family mealtime, wanting the curtains drawn ALL DAY..not coming to bed until 5am then sleeping til 3pm..... That's enough to remind me I could never live with him again! Like living with one of Harry Potter's Dementors, sucking the joy out of everything.
............................

I'm posting this just to remind you of what you said prior to talking to him. I know full well what spaghetti head can do. ONE AFTERNOON with KD, and I was muddled. Go back, read the posts from the beginning of this thread... marry that up with how you're feeling now after just one afternoon of him talking to you, being persuasive. I'm saying this only because I was right there earlier this month.... they are VERY persuasive, because they play on your guilt and your desire to have a normal relationship. READ it, and remind yourself. That was TWO WEEKS ago. Has he really changed in two weeks? Or has he figured out how to bring you around.... (like my KD did)....

I was actually sat here thinking about the prospect of living with him again, and each time it came back to a resounding NO, and that post right there is the reason why. But then I remember it wasn't always like that, he used to be great to live with, it was really only when he lost his job that he became this teenagerish recluse.

And now I'm minimalising and excusing him already.

Curt seriously, I know EXACTLY where you're at mentally right now. Do you remember earlier in the month, when I spend a long afternoon (most of the day even) with KD, and I "went to bingo" and posted and basically laid my spaghetti head out for all to see? I look back at it now and I cannot BELIEVE that I even considered it, even for a moment. And if someone told me that simply spending a decent afternoon with him acting "normal" would mess so much with my head, I'd have laughed my socks off. But it did.

I think we crave the normal so much that we are still in danger of falling for it, even though it is utterly out of context. Both of us have KDs that were utter arses just a few weeks prior, yet it falls by the wayside so quickly when we see decent behaviour. I think it shows just how dangerous and insidious their persuasion can be.

I know you're right alice, my none trusting brain tells me that when the strongarming and attempts at control didn't work, he's simply changed tactics and is pulling out the stops on the charm. There's no denying he's getting his life in order (at last!), and that's a positive thing. But is it reason to consider a reconciliation at some point..probably not. Somewhere in the back of this mess head, I keep remembering that he wasn't always a FW, he was actually, once upon a time, a lovely, lovely guy who I fell for in a big way (obviously) and planned to spend the rest of my life with him. What if (and it's a HUGE what if), but what if he actually is capable of being that guy again. I know that would also mean me having to put every shit thing that he did away in a box, and never mention it again. Not sure how or even if I could do that.

There's also the new job and him working away to consider. If it plays out like last time he worked away, he'll start out with the best intentions, calling, texting, skyping..then it became less frequent communication, then he was always on a work's night out bender, then the majority of his wage went on london nightclubs. Him working away will also show what level of commitment he has to 'fixing things'. I think ultimately I just wait and watch and see how it pans out. Personally I can't see a 'happily ever after' but I may be wrong.

Gaaah..that was an epic..sorry!

True. No apologies needed. As I said, I've spent the last two weeks watching KD's "I will prove you can trust me" fall completely apart. He didn't even last a week. He's already back to lying, and was carefully hiding anything that didn't fit into his "I'm a good guy" persona as it was. So I guess technically he never stopped lying.

Sadly, it would seem so. I think my own personal mantra should be that I don't invest anything emotionally (or physically!) and see if his word is worth anything. Until then, you'll probably find me posting random thoughts herr to try and unravel my head.

No worries, really. I was all over the place for a couple weeks there. I honestly was shocked at how quickly the spaghetti head took hold and how long it took to clear. It IS hard to see them behave like a decent person and have those feelings well up again. But I am now reminding myself that KD behaving like a decent person shouldn't really be remarkable. It should be the norm. And because it's not, that's reason enough for me to say no.

Here is an interesting view into where KD places the dcs for importance. We discussed child maintenance. I said he needed to pay £20 per month to show that he was contributing towards their upbringing. So he said that he would pay £10 every two weeks when he gets his payments. Today's payment day. I get an email from him saying "I'll pay £20 two weeks from now." On that day, when he gets paid, he'll have something else that needs to be covered. And thus it goes.

Meanwhile, in the next 4 weeks, I'll be paying £120 for childcare, £32 for two pairs of school shoes, god knows how much (I'll try like crazy to keep costs down) for practically a complete new wardrobe for ds1 as he's outgrown literally all his winter clothing (which thankfully can be passed down to ds2 saving me some money). Not to mention school expenses, new school trousers for ds1, parking for various medical appointments, £30 per week just for petrol to cover school runs. Plus regular living expenses.

He lives with MIL in a house that is paid for. No rent, no utilities. Oh, wait, he pays for his alcohol and cigarettes. He's not looking for work, so no job related expenses. Under £20 per month on mobile (according to him). He stopped paying his debts ages ago, so I know they're hassling him, but he's still not paying. Although he did visit a tattoo parlour recently, so I have a good idea I know where his money will be going, instead of to help with his dcs or his debts.

alice it's clear he is clueless when it comes to DC and the extent of the expenses that come with them! Mine has done a u-turn on the money front and has agreed to catch up out of his first wages. I guess we'll see if that actually happens, eh? When he worked away before he pretty much blew his wages on clubbing in London whilst I struggled at home on child tax credit topped up with some freelance writing.

I'm also wondering how much of this monetary turnaround depends on me giving positive vibes wrt reconciliation. One more thing I'll have to watch and wait over, I guess.

I did ask who's supposed to be funding the train fare and Sealife entry fee tomorrow, and he says he'll cover it. Just as well because I've just shelled out on a lighter double buggy and started collecting a winter wardrobe for all 3 DC

Curt sending you a PM

You know, some days I'd like to just ring up KD and let loose and just shout at him "I KNOW what the hell you're up to, and what you've BEEN up to. I KNOW so much more than you think I do and I think you're a nasty useless waste of space..." sigh. But I won't. Because I can't tip my hand just yet.

But I hate just sitting here waiting, while he thinks he's being clever.

Not even a point really, as he doesn't care one jot how it will affect anyone but himself. I really feel for OW's children, as he went on (even after I told him I didn't want to hear it) about them at one point during a contact visit recently. He's quite happy to mess with anyone and everyone's lives as long as it gets him what he wants.

sorry.. just needed to blow off steam...

alice no need to apologise..there have been times when all I've wanted to do is rant and rant until it's all out of me. So much happened during our marriage that he smugly thought I had no clue about, and it's things like that, that I fear will spill out one day and blow everything apart. He was very good at thinking he'd put one over on me but in actual fact, I always knew when he'd been up to something. Just one more thing to consider wrt reconciliation.

Curt, this might be beside the point, so ignore it if it is: don't forget that even if he sorts all his shit out and becomes that lovely guy for real, you still always have the option of saying, "No thanks, but I wish you well for your future relationships."

Curt I understand what you're going through, it's so hard being constantly ambushed by a fw's desperate struggles to the death of not accepting it's over, isn't it. The rapidly changing mental games (because their tendrils remain in our head, easy for them to play with our minds). The good cop bad cop from the person who despite being a dickhead arsehole, we loved for years and also has an instinctive, vindictive deep knowledge of how to play us. And people wonder why we take so long to leave my fw is playing same games even tho I've sodding served divorce papers on him. It's soul destroying. Sorry for sudden outpouring! Just woke up feeling bit raw! Love to all xxxxx

Breathe so sorry your FW is making things difficult for you still. I honestly had hoped that once the divorce paperwork was served that he'd simply either back down or remain an arse (much easier IMO to deal with consistent arse behaviour), rather than returning to mind games.

Charlotte wise words. Something I will need to remember as well (not that my KD is in any danger at the moment of becoming a lovely guy )

The dcs wanted to speak to MIL and KD today so I rang there briefly so they could say hello. KD spoke to them both in under a minute then asked to speak to me. Why is it so hard for him to make actual conversation with his own dcs?? It baffles me.

Anyway, I decided to put my foot in it and get an honest reaction and mentioned the child contact centre and that I was considering it. I explained it was a temporary thing, but that it meant he could spend a couple hours every weekend with the dcs playing, and I would be elsewhere for that time. He said he'd have to think about it, as he wasn't sure he could afford a fiver each week to come over and visit them. Priorities, I suppose, eh?

Really need advice - sorry

Went solicitors on Wednesday. All ok. Left feeling clear and strong.

Next day - me and h sit down and talk. I tell him that I am anxious and stressed. I think it would be better if we separate. We have had 16 months of counselling and although some changes have been made it's still a rollercoaster.
I think he his having some kind if mid life crisis.

He said he can't think about a life without me. He loves me. He will change.
Please don't do this to me.

I was very strong even though the anxiety was kicking in. I said everything i needed to say and was calm.

However, I can feel myself weakening. It's so hard saying all these things when you still love someone. Which I know is the reason I need space from him. But I don't think I'm strong enough to keep this up.

I am trying to protect myself from getting anxiety to the degree I can't function. Which I have had before. I'm on meds now.

I don't know what to do next.

Reading back your posts curt, Charlotte and breathe - any one of us could have written my last post

FFF I think while he is there talking to you, you will struggle with spaghetti head. He's had 16 months of counselling... has he changed?

Remember that you do not need his PERMISSION to leave.

And screeeeeaaaaammmm....

I will take my rant to bingo.....

Thanks Alice x

No he hasn't changed