Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships....can it be 18?

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

FW has managed to piss me off tonight. Raced back from seeing a friend to get to his for 5. Usual time I go to get them. Nobody there. He'd said he wasn't going to go anywhere with them as it was bad weather. Rang him and he was at a pub with soft play miles away with his sister and reckoned I don't normally collect them til 6.30 at weekends.
Then I was annoyed as ds would fall asleep in his car and have to be transferred all grumpy to mine and sleep in his clothes so as not to unleash the beast of a tantrum getting him into his pjs.
Managed this at 7pm. FW then tells me to let him know what we are doing tomorrow. Told him we are going to my mum's as it is sodding Mother's Day. He'd been telling the dc in a stage whisper all week they had cards to sort out.
So I told him I assumed he'd not done the cards. Cue him looking a bit pissed off with himself and telling me they'd not had chance ( in all morning dd says). Then asks me if I want to take the cards and have dd write them at mine. DD is 5. No I don't bloody well want to sit and spell out her message for me for a card that's FOR me! FFS, all he had to do was get them to write in a bloody card.
My DM will have assumed he will have fucked it up though and will probably have sorted something for the dc to give me when I get to hers.

snowshapes - I was looking at this site.

Maggie - it's lovely to hear from you, and fantastic to hear your news. So hope the house comes through with no problems. Sending lots of strength your way (if I could!).

Bertie - forgot to say, that's great news - you're so close now!

Match - how annoying!

FW is home. He managed to behave like a normal person for two hours or so. Then the dcs and I went for a long walk and he went out too and by the time we next saw him, he'd turned into Mr Hyde again. I could actually observe the behaviour and see it as abusive rather than just brainless, which might be a first - he would say something and I'd realise I couldn't imagine him saying similar to anyone else. And I could see the malign intentions behind what he said.

So I'm very grateful to him for all that! He's now locked himself away in his study to work, as has lots to do apparently, so I'm looking forward to a quiet evening emailing my mum to make up for not sending anything this year and then hoping to tell him tomorrow evening.

Bertie, Thinking realistically, honestly and kindly to yourself takes practice.

Until then? Fake it till you make it. Whenever an unkind word is hurled at us, STOP. just think, I am NOT wrong, bad, weak, stupid, paranoid, abusive, mean, frigid, loose... I am NONE of these things. THEY ARE though! That's why they say it. To them it's the worst thing they can say, it's THEIR fears.

So the reply is NO response, no protestation, nothing. It's npt about YOU, never was...

But you know that already if you've read your Lundy! :)

Thanks, Charlotte. Wow, it is tick, tick, tick all the way. Just reading the ten steps to recovery, number 5 about money, so true.

Anyway, he never did believe in Mother's Day, so nothing lost there. Had good fun this evening making a chocolate cake with DC for tomorrow with Abba on, and no-one sweeping up the flour around me. Just hope weather reasonable so we can get out and about. Oh, and I bought some flowers for myself too. Sorted.

Good wishes to everyone, hope EternalRose is okay too, maybe hard for her to get online, but agree she sounded in a bad place. I hope she is okay.

Oh and was thinking about Cathy's question earlier. Be aware of the warning signs and listen to your gut. And without sounding woo, value yourself, does he respect you, in actions, not just words?
Agree about posting any questionable behaviour for feedback, but hope he is good for you.

Help please

I posted earlier that H saw me secretly texting last night, he's hardly spoken all day and said earlier when I was talking about the chickens "I don't want to male too many plans for the future".

And now I'm scared, he's just gone to bed and I'm scared to go to bed. I don't know what to do, this has thrown me so much. It wasn't meant to go like this. Don't get me wrong, if he left then that would solve many issues but I'm scared now. I dont want to get into bed for him to start on me... I know I shouldn't have been secretly texting, it's so hard.
FFS, I've been reduced to this...

mrsM responding to your post but don't really know what to say. can you sleep on the couch? Is your gut telling you he is going to be argumentative or physically dangerous?

He is being wicked making ominous remarks like that to unnerve you.

Thinking of you and wishing i had some sensible advice.

Just argumentative, he's in bed but texted me to say "getting all your texting in now are you, sometimes I think you even believe your own lies"
"you lie like a cheap watch"

I think I might sleep on the sofa, if he wasn't so controlling then I wouldn't have been secretive in the first place.

He just stormed downstairs and demanded to see my phone and asked why I wasn't in bed. I want to leave, I have work in the morning so I can't because I have no transport of my own.

mrsM in that case sleep downstairs if you will get more peace. hope you get some sleep. i hate getting wound up before bed.

thinking of you all, and especially thoughts for your actions tomorrow charlotte xx

And soon hopefully it will be over for the better.

mrsm I would stay on the sofa tonight. Is there anywhere you can be after work tomorrow?

Charlotte hope tomorrow goes well.

Have a good night all x

charlotte sending you bravery and strength. Look to the future

Apologies for any delay in replying.

I?m 99% sure he hasn?t done anything wrong. I mean, he doesn?t care/mind who I go out with, when I go out, how long I?m out, why I?m out etc. And I don?t mean that he doesn?t care in a negative, couldn?t give a damn way, but more that he?s unconcerned because he trusts me and it isn?t really anything to concern himself about, which is such a novelty and had been making me think I had done the right thing in allowing myself to be in a relationship again after all these years. He hadn?t portrayed one sign of the old, controlling, abusive behaviour I had been on the lookout for.

The only thing that raises my concern happened very recently. On Monday we had a huge argument. This was the first major argument we?ve had. I can?t remember if I mentioned earlier but we?ve been together four monthsish. The argument was about absolutely nothing. Stupid things like did he want me to stay over that night? Was he sure? He sounded like he couldn?t really care less what I did? (This was all my unreasonableness, said purely because I wanted him to reassure me he did want me to stay, when really his ?if you want to stay I?m happy with that, if you want to go home fair enough? should have been more than enough. But it wasn?t, because I see issues where there aren?t any.)

Anyway it spiralled out of control and resulted in him dropping me off at home and me leaving the car with a (again unreasonable and unnecessary) shout that he shouldn?t contact me again because he clearly didn?t care (I had asked and demanded for hours that he took me home, I was awful and nasty to him, almost pushing him into it, and then I was distraught when he went through with it. And I don?t know why I have to push him away whilst simultaneously pushing for him to not let me go. I know it isn?t okay. I feel like/know I?m talking my anger at my ex boyfriend out on him.)

Ten minutes after I?d got back into the house he had rang (we?d been exchanging angry texts for these ten minutes) and said he wanted nothing more than to come and give me a cuddle and take me back to his (btw, cross communication had led him to think I wanted to go home, and he hadn?t realised I hadn?t and he wanted to go back to his, but I had adamantly demanded to be taken home. Again, misdirected anger).

So anyway, I asked him to come back to mine. This was about 8pm. I got showered and dressed, and sat downstairs waiting. He said he?d be twenty minutes. By 10pm he still wasn?t there. I had been ringing him off the hook since 9, partly concerned he?d had an accident, but mostly aware he?d just stood me up. At 10 I gave up hope of him coming and showered, and went to bed at 11. I text then just asking him to let me know he was okay, because if not I was going to get a taxi to his to make sure he was okay. He text back ?don?t?. I tried ringing again then, and his phone went straight through to answer phone, clearly switched off. Though he has said his phone died at this point.

He rang me at about midnight. Said he?d just got home and charged his phone. I asked if he wanted to stay together, he said he didn?t know. It killed me. And it annoyed me that it did, because I had swore I wouldn?t care about someone enough to let it hurt me again.

On Tuesday I text asking what we were doing. No reply. I?m ashamed to say I bombarded him with texts asking what was going on. I just needed to know. He said he needed to talk but didn?t want to do so via text. He finally rang, said he didn?t want to leave me but needed to talk and I thought everything was okay. Oh, I should mention at this point he was going away for 10 days on the Thursday.

I asked him if he wanted to see me on the Tuesday. He said yes. Great. We?ll sort it out. I go to a quiz every Tuesday with my friend and felt like I wasn?t prepared to cancel that, because I was scared that once you start cancelling with your friends?

So I was meant to see him at half five, go for dinner with him, sort things out and meet my friends at about half 8. He text at 5ish saying he wasn?t going to get away in time so couldn?t go out. Fine, I thought, I felt still in absolute turmoil (like I did almost every day with my ex) but it couldn?t be helped.
Next day I emailed asking if he wanted to do something. Email back acknowledging mine, but no response to whether he wanted to go out. I normally go out with a friend every Wednesday but due to him going away on the Thursday, and me wanting some peace of mind, I was okay with cancelling on my friend for that night only.

He was meant to finish at 5. I knew he was at an important meeting though so when he still hadn?t rang by 6 I thought it had over ran. At half 6 I gave him a ring. He answered. Said he didn?t know what time he?d be finished. I asked if he wanted to see me that night to have this ?talk? so I knew what was happening. He said he probably wouldn?t. Later he said that was because he wasn?t sure what time he?d finish work and wanted me to feel free to go out with my friend. I lost my temper, said he clearly didn?t care what he was doing to me etc. Asked if he wanted to finish, he said maybe we should. I asked if that?s what he wanted. He said yes.

Anyway, about half an hour later he rang back, said he?d finished work and I asked him to come over to talk about it. He did. Said he ?didn?t want to finish with me?. But still no word on whether he was actually going to. (he said the previous statement that he wanted to finish was just spur of the moment, and not wanting to ?hurt? me by leaving me hanging for a week while he was away.)

We went to the local bar and I asked him several times why he was in two minds about finishing etc. he said he didn?t know, that he was ?inside his own head?, and didn?t ?know why he was doing this?. Eventually I told him I wasn?t happy to sit there and wait for him to make a decision, and that I was going to walk away. At which point he snapped back into his normal self, took me for some food, bought a dvd, we went back to his and had a lovely night.

I don?t know whether the warning sirens should be blasting as loudly in my head as they are. It?s literally the first thing he?s done like this since we got together. It?s really unlike him and I?m baffled as to why he?s been like this, and he seems genuinely repentant and sorry. And I know I have done things wrong in taking my anger out on him when really it should be directed at my ex.

I?ve told him it seems like he?s doing the same as my ex, ie. Threatening to break up with me to make me panic and feel like I did, and therefore exerting control. He gets understandably offended why I make the comparison, because he says he isn?t an abuser.

I don?t know what to think. Am I just hypersensitive.

Thank you to anyone who had made it this far. Apologies for the mammoth post. Once I started typing I just couldn?t stop. Sorry.

That sounds so awfully pathetic with no background to it. My ex used to, amongst other, perhaps worse, things, threaten to break up with me on regular occasion, so I eventually agreed and done everything he said to try and stop him doing so. My current boyfriend knows about the abuse, though obviously it's hard to comprehend if it hasn't happened to you yourself.

It's also exceedingly difficult to explain, as demonstrated here. Sorry.

I've just updated myself on the rest of the thread there, excuse my ignorance. I hope everyone can get through it.

Happy mothers day lovely ladies

cathy people do have arguments, and non-abusive people sometimes use similar tactics to abusive ones. eg. my new squeeze sometimes leaves an utterance hanging for me to finish, I think this is because of his own uncertainty, but with an abuser it would be so that I revealed what I wanted, while he did not.

It makes it harder to be independant when you are dependant on them for transport, so if you had really wanted to leave it was up to you to order a taxi. Perhaps what you did want was to get to some resolution.

It seems that you may have been running some of your abusee strategies. Particularly the repeated texting etc. Your sirens may or may not be a warning, but you may need to find a cooler more detached place from which to interact with your bloke.

Ok Cathy i have read your post. i am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say this early on in a relationship you had a bit of a set back with the communication. you were being very sensitive to whether he wanted you there- understandably as you are on pins after previous relationship.

However, let's assume he is just a normal guy. he won't understand what you went through. he May know, he may care but he can't really know what it feels like. so he won't have been able to see where you coming from and withdrawn himself from a very confusing situation.

At thus stage in a relationship he for will ve trying to work out what kind of a relationship it is.

However he should gave given you a chance to talk it over. if he eastenders bit coming over he should have said so.

On the other hand if he is an abuser then keeping you strung out suits him fine. although ic it were my ex, he would gave kept you dangling a bit and then relished the opportunity to point out all your failings and how you made him feel but how generous he was fir 'putting up either you when no one else would' i.e. in mh experience of my ex he would gave exploited this opportunity to the max to make you insecure and make himself look good.

(i am not saying you are lucky to have him no one else will!!! That's just what he would have said)

So On the one hand you do get abusers which do the I'm leaving you not I'm not trick. but it dies also happen a lot early in relationships when people are wondering if they should invest heavily ironically move on. he can probably tell you are not sure sit he is not sure.
At this stage i would say one swallow does nite a summer make and one communication does not an abusive relationship make.

But if it keeps happening then i would at the least worry that maybe you have a difficult relationship on your hands.

So i would say play it by ear. see how he is when he comes back. try not to bombard him with messages and calls.

Stay string for yourself. a man is nice to have but you don't need one.

you are understandably shaky and it might taketake you a few tries at it to get used to and to havefind someone who you feel comfortable with. if this relationship feel wrong bail.

Do you have much background on him- previous relationships, general communication style? Is he a fighter?

Dam phone if he isn't coming over. nothing at all to do with eastenders!!

Also putting up with not putting up either.