Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair and left us - WE ARE MOVING ON!)

[Dee34]

Hopefully, I have done this correctly?!

Old thread here Thread1

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

I think it is very hard and probably too emotional atm but it may help to think of him feeding her bullsh*t too. My DH admitted after his affair that he told OW everything she wanted to hear and manipulated her as much as he did me.

Remember his new wife has a onesided view of you and your relationship with ex, he has told her everything about you etc etc. Maybe in the future when there has been enough time elapsed you may feel meeting for coffee will let her see that you are not mad/bad or whatever he has said and sometimes we just have to be the bigger person for a DC's sake. If this marriage succeeds then when your DS gets married in future, has children etc you will have to meet her to make it easier for your DS IYSWIM.

It is very hard for you as it is so raw still but with time and space it may become easier.

FWIW, my DH took my DCs to OW's house without me knowing even that there was an OW so I know the pain involved and the pain involved in all the deceit of an affair etc.

It has been 3 yrs now for me and I can look on the OW as having issues of her own and know that my DH was so good at lies and deceit that we were both duped by him (though she did know he was married with 4DSs ).

It's interesting that he didn't/doesn't want you two to meet - worried you would both compare notes .

Good luck with it all anyway.

I dont think I could meet her now - definitely not at this stage. Lots has gone on in the background; I was forbidden to meet her when she first arrived here, even though ex introduced DS to her after 3 days. I think I went into it all at the time, ex wrote 'No, you cannot meet her. That is very werid. etc etc'. This was all in a an email. They later decreed that I could indeed meet her as ex wanted to do something with DS and I said no. By that time,I did not want to meet her as DS had been in her company for x months/weeks during his time with his dad (sorry, vague on the detail as cant remember it all now).

She aso threatened to call the police on me in my own home (she was in SF) when she overhead ex and I arguing in Jan 2010 (we were arguing because they were talking to each other from the family home on the phone. He had agreed to phone her away from the house and then obviously couldn't be botehred, a week or so later after agreeing to this....we were living under the same roof as he had nowhere else to go and didn't want to pay for a hotel - yes, I have enabled this man from day one).

I am also 'hmm' about the influence she has over ex - though still not forgetting that ex is in charge of his own actions. Back when she threatened the phone call, ex had come back home (he had stormed out after I tried to grab the phone) agreed to talk, but only on the condition that OW had told him that he had to phone her every 15mins - during our talk. Told him to stick that idea at which he did call her and tell her that he was indeed okay. Bearing in mind, ex and I have never had a fall down/shout in your face argument, never had any physical fights etc the fact that he rolled over and did as he was told has stuck with me and made me super wary of any interaction with her/them together. I have also had the 'if people dont want to support us, then we are happy not to have them as friends as they are not true friends' party line.

I dont think she has to encorach on certain aspects of DS' life though does she? Esp re access and school. I know friends who have stepchildren and they pretty much butt out (for want of another expression) on that sort of stuff.......but get what you mean about not having to engage with ex and also her influence being constant for DS now.

Long winded, but I dont think I physically or mentally could do that just now..do other people meet the OW/new wife/partner?

Yes, had already thought about that, in terms of DS getting married in the future etc. I get about being the bigger person and would love to do this for DS, but sometimes, and just now in particular, I am thinking why is it always me.....though guess I have enabled ex so that it is always me....

Self pitying rant is out into the ether by the way and not directed at anyone btw.....

obviously couldn't be botehred

No, he did it on purpose to hurt you. YOu set a boundary, he purposefully flaunted a refusal to abide by that boundary. YOur boundary was a very reasonable one, remember. She threatened to call the police because she was up to here with the shit he had told her about you - she believed every word of it.

I didn't meet the OW (though my situation is different, in that I left the marriage and 'OW' came along later). She was totally brainwashed about me - and still is to this day. I have still never met her approx 10 years later - not properly anyway. ex died before the spell broke about him for her (bad sentence) ie she was still in the honeymoon period. Rabid eating disorder (one of the clear symptoms of being with an abuser) but still loved up with the psycho. She never got to work through to the other side ie her life didn't become so unmanageable and she hadn't got to the stage where she lost her mind enough to start to question him.

I honestly don't and didn't see the point in meeting her. She was brainwashed to the hilt about me and there was nothing I could do or say that would in any way break the lies. I wish I had severely limited the kids' exposure to her, and them; but I was doing the decent thing: kids need their fathers etc. Kids don't need a psychopath for a father, I don't care what anybody says; though, very sadly, I have had to learn that the hard way. Which is why my posts are so urgent!

He will probably interpret your sudden withdrawal from him as jealousy. Don't worry about it! In fact, don't worry about one single thing he thinks or says, or she thinks and says. don't worry about saving face - there are more important things at stake here.

btw don't write out the boundaries and rules for him! Do it for you and then enact it, dont give him any clues. You could write out eg a (short) list of what consitutes an emergency and word it as: 'Please contact me if the following are happening' etc. Don't say the words 'Don't contact me if they aren't' - though he will very probably get around your conclusive list somehow. Don't flag up that you're setting a boundary - slip it into an email as a btw. Don't come out all guns blazing because he has plenty of ire he can draw on and will use it. He will never feel he has hurt you enough, will always go for hurting you more: don't give him any clues about how to hurt you.

Why does he feel that he can never hurt her enough do you think? I don't understand it. He wanted to go, and he's gone. He's got what he wanted.

I wouldn't want to meet the OW either Dee. I think at the moment it's not something you need to even think about unless you genuinely want to.

Because I am to blame for everything. He has told me this directly - I am to blame in that because I didn't give him enough x, y or z, he had to look elsewhere, find someone else, someone who really appreciated it, thought he was fantastic. Nothing about his own failings or how he carried on as happy as Larry and normal before revealing all. I dont believe a word he says of course - stopped believing all that some time ago. I think because I dont agree with his world view it doesn't sit right with him.....he obviously needs to believe that life was so terrible, how he was so wronged, to make the present valid, understand that bit. He had me doubting a lot of my own memories in the early days when he would say things like 'dont you think it was terrible back when we were together?' or 'dont you remember x,y or z'...Nope I didn't and can see it's all gaslighting etc (I ditched my rose tinted glasses a long time ago and never claimed that he, me or us were 100% perfect, but we did have a fantastic time together up until xmas (which I got the blame for and not a word was uttered about his folks, even though I had begged him if we could stay in our own home. But he refused and I know why......wonder if I had had a wonderful time there what the excuse would have been then. Actually, I dont wonder as not interested anymore)....

Suspect that he will think it is jealously with me now taking action and withdrawing. As you say, tough, dont care what he thinks anymore......

You know it still takes my breath away how some people have the audacity to openly blame the other person for 100% of their problems. Its the categorical... 'I've done NOTHING' wrong and am only thinking of you...' Really? Your Ex is not worth your energy any more.

I remember so well in the beginning Dee when he was messing with your head about your most recent past then he kept tugging on your soul every so often when he said that he wished it was all different and he missed you. It was all an act. It was designed to make him look as though he'd second thoughts and all the time he was getting off on having two women at his side. Worst thing was that he made you start to doubt your skills as a mother. That was unacceptable in the extreme having taken any stability away from your little family without giving you the dignity of a response.

BUT... I am delighted to read your recent posts. You have turned a page - its wonderful to see. I don't doubt the pain of the journey so far and how much determination you have to have reached this stage.

I do agree that your distancing should be done subtely, no drama or openings for him to shaft you. Just a grim determination that you call the shots in your own life and he can go swivel when it doesn't suit.

Be one step ahead of him, don't remind him of his duties. He either wants to be a good father or not and No.1 on that list is respecting his DS's mother. |Any time you feel downed by him, its because he does not respect you and for your DS's sake, make your Ex raise his game to your level. He either comes with you on this parenting journey, or he'll have to survive in your wake.

Your strength is amazing and I am sure that every time you look at your DS you know it is worth it. He will respect you for it. You are the best role model for him, so keep on this track and you'll have the best DS in the world. x

Proper access/contact (never sure of the right word!) has now been agreed with ex and I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Will go down from current levels of seeing him/interacting with him 4 times a week to once every fortnight (and even that may reduce as DS starts school and ex can do Mon am drop-off, though he didn't seem that keen when I mentioned that!).

Only bugbear is that whilst discussing holiday weeks (yes, had to do f2f meeting as couldn't bear idea of a million emails ping ponging and we would still be at battle now if had gone down that route), he mentioned that he wanted to take DS away to US for thanksgiving. Think someone warned me to be prepared for that. Ummm, wasn't when he mentioned it today. Esp as he pushed it under the guise of seeing friends and family (her friends and family that is, who ex even admits he has seen only a couple of times). Know that he can take DS wherever and to see whoever, but I still cant believe that he has no empathy to say, 'hmmm, maybe not a good idea to suggest this just now' etc etc. Actually, yes, switched on Dee34 can believe it. There is also the very big fact that DS has plenty of relatives in the UK that he doesn't see enough of (i.e. ex's own family). Reminded ex of this and he said 'yes, yes, that's true' as if it hadn't crossed his mind. Fully expect him to come back asking again nearer the time, but when he first mentioned it, I did hope/guess that this would fall in school term time and put the kaboosh on that idea. Have no problem with ex and new wife taking DS abroad for a holiday (and I am the one who suggested he put some dates forward now to go in the diary so that these are known and agreed upfront), but, honestly, I dont trust him not to go there and then one day just disappear, esp as he would have his wife and children with him. Probably over-working my imagination, but ex's actions have been so impulsive compared to the steady person I used to know, which is what niggles at the back of my mind.....I just dont trust him...though know that is no basis for my saying no.

Apparently Thanksgiving is the concession to her having to spend every Christmas and NY here forever and eternity (ex blurted this out before I could stop him - did not ask! Maybe he wanted me to feel sorry for her? Or feel empathy for her and the sacrifice she has made...etc etc).

But, all in all a good outcome. I let go of some of the smaller details remembering the adage about choosing my battles.

I was able to breathe through the meeting and ping an elasticated hair-band on my wrist when things started to rise in me. Amazing what you can do if you really try (says she, wishing she had done this from day 1!). Came away with no fury embedded in me and was able to skip about the rest of the day's work with no worry. Felt like I was swimming for once as opposed to the drowning/weighed down feeling I have been experiencing.

McNaughty - several RL people have said the same about distancing/withdrawing myself from ex's orbit (as has been said by others on the thread as well). I.e. don't go in with a big announcement - just carry on and do the actions and he will soon get the message. I felt like the door to that part of my life was closed now. No more nonsense interaction (fuelled from either side), minimal interaction and all necessary interaction focused on DS. Still a way to go before it all becomes second nature, but am feeling really positive now. Thanks for the warming words; yes, I am constantly grateful for DS and determined to do the best for him (even if that is hard on me at times). Thanks!

Phew - Thanksgiving does fall over school term-time, so can present that to ex if he asks again. Hence, I can now avoid looking like the crazed/over-bearing/psycho ex who cant get over losing ex and move on, blah, blah

Maybe he will think about a week between now and school starting in Sept 2012 to take DS on a holiday/see his relatives instead.....

You what, Dee, it would be over my dead body that a trip abroad would happen. Seriously, he wouldn't even have to disappear would he? If his NW was still pregnant it'd be a problem with the pregnancy that would mean they - including DS - couldn't come back, or if she's had the baby it'd be a problem with the baby.

Given that he's treated you with nothing but contempt, has basically got form for taking time to plan ways to screw you over, is a complete liar and thinks the world revolves around him, I would take care if I was you. In fact, the way he's been so reasonable about access should tell you he's planning something - he ALWAYS is when he's nice.

Just say no. Refuse to hand over DS's passport. Just don't take the risk. Doesn't matter if you look crazy/psycho - rather that than having to live without DS.

Still think you're pretty darn amazing, btw.
X

I'm so pleased you have got access more established Dee - I think it will make a huge difference to you. Long may the skippy light feeling continue!

It's not you who is the crazed/over-bearing/psycho ex, let's get that clear!

I really really wouldn't care what he thinks or what it 'looks like'. HOpefully, once you settle into never meeting him ever again unless you have to [once in a blue moon] then you will settle into not caring what he thinks, not factoring what he thinks into your decisions.

Personally? no way would I let ds go abroad with him since you didn't ask

Remember Dee this is none of your business.

What ever concessions she/he has made regarding Christmas and New Year are nothing to do with you and none of your business. What ever sacrifices she has made to be with her husband are her business (more fool her).

You have asked nothing of her, it is nothing to do with you and it is none of your business. See how this works the other way

If you get to the stage where it is Christmas with you then Christmas with his dad then there is nothing to stop them going away a week before Christmas and coming back like Boxing Day. Your son wouldn't know the difference...

Can you fit in a visit with a specialist solicitor to find out where you stand with preventing him from taking him to the USA for your peace of mind?

Hmmmm Xales - he mentioned all that as in 'no, listen' (in response to my raised eyebrows when he landed the TG request in my lap) 'we have agreed to spend TG in the US so as to stay here for Xmas/NY'. All said pretty quickly and I did say after he said it 'sorry, not interested in that really as it's none of my business'; also said when he asked me if I would be willing to give up some of my time if/when his folks came down for a visit (the gp's who saw DS for two visits in the whole of last year, April 2011 and then Dec 2011). My reply, 'no, we have to both work around our access time and ditto for family. Though special circumstances can be discussed'. Totally agree, it's none of my business, but ex dropped it into the conversation....but, arse, I can see what is happening now, getting sucked back into the machinations and thinking about the minute of their lives.....!

Not wanting to overanalyse, I think he is saying that he will stay here for Xmas/NY, so DS gets to spend that time with ex's parents and cousins in the UK, but yes, see what you mean about how he could just take him anyway (though I have DS' passport). I know I keep saying it, but I just dont trust him to not do something impulsive. I doubt I have any legal grounding on this though, so will just need to sit and wait and see what happens/if he makes the request. I also thought that if we had parental responsibility then he would need to get my permission to take DS to x, y or z country abroad and ditto, I would need to get his permission?

Springy - yes, was being sarky (a bit!)! You are totally right, I shouldn't care what he thinks and am getting there!

Well - thanks, yes, I am kicking myself thinking why didn't I do this ages ago, but better late than never and really, I think the pregnancy has kicked me into action. If it hadn't been happening, am sure the protracted access/swapping whenever would have dragged on for a good few more months....silver lining and all that I guess.

enuff - thanks. I hadn't thought too much about him being reasonable meaning that he is up to something, though that is usual practice, yes.... Hmmm, the TG request did come after we had reached agreement, maybe that is what he was angling for?? But yes, I will be on my guard, though I do now feel more empowered to say no and mean it and not be persuaded because ex wants this or that.....

I'm not a hundred percent but this is what I think based on recent experience (I'm assuming you both have parental responsibility, which is the usual state of affairs unless it's been specifically removed through the courts):

• each of you needs the others consent to take your ds out of the country, even for a holiday. If one of you has a residency order you may take ds out of the country for a holiday for up to 4 weeks without obtaining the other parent's consent
• in reality I think your ex most likely wouldn't be questioned by british border officials when leaving the country, but he might be questioned on arriving in the states (they're big on illegal immigration aren't they?) in which case he should have a letter of consent with you every time he travels.
• if he did abduct your ds (take him out of the country without your consent) or 'unlawfully retain' him (not come back after a holiday) present circumstances mean your ds would most certainly be considered to be habitually resident in the UK and as such you could bring an application for child abduction under the hague convention (to which the UK and US are both signatories). You would get legal aid for this (no matter the merits of your case or how rich you are). From what I recall I think the US has a pretty good track record of adhering to the HC, hearing the case fairly quickly and returning children to their country of habitual residence (presuming that is you know where to find them - the US is a big place), although I think that might differ from state to state. In the UK all hague convention cases are heard in the high court in london because that's where the judges with the expertise in it are, but I know it's not like that in many other countries.
• there are defences to the HC, but not many. Consent is one of them, but (in england anyway) the defences are interpreted narrowly by the courts.
• I'm not sure about prohibited steps orders (ie an order specifically preventing him from doing something) - I think you might need to show that there is a genuine cause for concern of abduction, and I think it might only pertain to a specific trip
• prevention is absolutely better than cure!

In short, I think it's not something he would find very easy to do 'impulsively' in the US, especially as your ds doesn't have US nationality/passport. They'd have to disappear from the system which I assume would take some planning and forethought. Nevertheless, your ex is bonkers and the US is a big place so when and if the time does come that you feel comfortable with him taking your ds out of the country (anywhere, not just the US), I'd make damn sure you have a strongly worded letter of consent (or perhaps even a deed so that he signs it too) which sets out the background facts that you are the primary caregiver, ds' country of habitual residence is the UK, and that you are giving your consent for ds to travel with his father to X country for a holiday between the dates of Y and Z after which he will return to the UK permanently. That way if your ex does claim you gave consent you have something that says "uh, yes, for a fricking HOLIDAY you donkey". You can couch it to him in terms that he's going to need it for border control and that you're doing him a favour to make his life easier (if and when you agree you can even say something like "Oh for GOD'S SAKE, now I'm going to have to get a bloody letter of consent sorted out for you too. Well I expect you to pay for it at the very least. Sigh, grumble, complain etc). I'd get this drafted by a suitably experienced solicitor the first time and then you can use it as a template for any further trips. I'd also make sure that it's very clear by your continuing circumstances and living arrangements that you are the primary caregiver and that ds' primary place of residence is with you. All the more reason to get those access arrangements in writing.

I know a vair vair good solicitor who accepts legal aid and also does a free half hour initial consultation! I bloody love her and I owe her a huge debt of gratitude. She's not in your neck of the woods (but she's not in mine either and it doesn't make any difference - we do everything by phone and email). You probably don't need her now but feel free to PM if you want her details.

Incidentally, does anyone know if one parent can apply for a passport for a dc without the other parent's knowledge/consent?

I'm not absolutely certain that one parent can't, well

re I wonder if one parent can without the other's consent.

I think I posted before that I contacted the UK border authorities who had a notice to stop him if he tried to take the children out of the country. They contacted me annually to ask if I wanted the bar to be removed.

I also caught my ex applying for passports for his home country, which is not part of the hague convention. it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to get ds an american passport (if that were at all possible...)

I also agree that the States is a big place and wouldn't risk it. You don't know where her family live, you know nothing about her, no addresses etc.

LASTLY: Dee, please please (to the power of 10) don't let him know what you are thinking, what you are planning, what you are considering ie don't have open convos with him. eg don['t say to him "you wouldn't get an american passport for ds would you? I'm worried you will". He is not to be trusted so keep your world/thoughts/concerns totally tight. Remember the E word - Enemy.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about the sweetening to prepare for landing the punch! If he is being nice to you, he is planning something horrible

re don't be a blabber mouth!

It has occurred to me that by nailing down the contact arrangements, you are effectively ds's resident parent, ex is ds's non-resident parent. That puts you in a much stronger position. The way things were before, he could have argued that your roles were equal. I'd get it set in stone legally though, it's not like he's ever true to his word eh.

Dee this is what the government says. which might be a good starting point. And here is some advice from the US for parents.

Springdaffs - would it be ok if I PM'd you about something?

Those were very good links mummytime.

Dee - this is down the road somewhat and will hopefully never be necessary, but if you go to reunite.org they also have something called an 'abuction pack' which you can prepare and have to hand to give to the police etc should anything happen.

Morning - thanks for the sterling advice about travel and access.

I will definitely keep those pages bookmarked mummytime. I will have DS' passport with me, so ex would have to let me know his intentions (esp as we have agreed on set holiday weeks), from which I can respond armed with the above info. Defo right Springy- wont reveal anything to him to forewarn him or allow him to up his game.....I know some people will say 'well, he can do what he likes with DS when DS has him' and I agree. If her friends and family were visiting in the UK and ex had DS for a weekend when they were here, then I would swallow (hard) and send DS off for the weekend. It's just this mad inplusive stuff that is bugging me (combined with his alleged highs and lows - even if false and mentiond to curry favour, I have this in an email, so could be used as 'evidence' possibly). With some planning, he could transfer money over there, buy a house, cash in on his savings and live quite nicely. And as pointed out above, I know nothing about her, bar her name and the state she is originally from. Ex's parents have never met her family/been there, so doubt they would have contact details for her family either.

I think that the request for TG was a dummy one (though still keeping my wits about me and treating it as a real request). Similar to the request to take DS on a 'holiday' when he gave me 2 weeks notice (or less), which turned out to be their wedding/honeymooon. If he had really wanted to take him back then, he would have asked to take him back when they booked their holiday. When I said no, he backed down straight away, so more of a 'look, I asked, did my bit and it was Dee34 who said no' (not that I care what he thinks). Ditto here, reckon he can now say 'look, I asked and Dee34 said no' without ever really intending to have taken DS there....though he is crazy in love so wouldn't put anything past him right now and his madness to create and cultivate a new perfect family unit.

Should I get the contact agreement formalised now, or after a while when the agreement has been in place and it is the 'norm'? Should I just write it up, get ex to sign and me to sign and then a third person to sign (and date obviously). Or should I go via solicitors (costly?!).

Thanks hugely as always, Dx

Dee, I love your attitude. You've found this strength from within yourself and its positive to read your recent posts. Hang on in there, you are finally getting a step ahead.

A quick comment about finalising contact agreements. I know very little about the legal side of things, but I seuugest that you seriously consider going down the solicitor route. I know the cost is scary, but I think that you want to make sure that any agreements you put in place are watertight. You don't want to give him wriggle room. I know this from one of my relatives who said that when the chance came to finally gain control of the situtation, they wanted to make sure that it was final and legal.

You know how unpredictable your Ex can be and he will do all in his power to hang on to this shiny, new relationship. Armed with a year of his areshole-ish behaviour, don't take any risks. Nail him re: your DS so you don't have any worries about what he might do. Tell him what he can do. End of.

Take care x