Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair and left us - WE ARE MOVING ON!)

[Dee34]

Hopefully, I have done this correctly?!

Old thread here Thread1

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
I
Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Sorry if I am over-analysing (please tell me if I am!). I just feel like I am having to re-learn the rules of engagement with this person who is now a stranger...

Springy - ex has long commented on how much weight I have lost and my clothes. I do give him short shrift or a withering look which usually shuts him up. I do not want any compliments from that man (and I always view them as suspect anyway). Like the ways to deal with a narcissism fuelled person.

Dolly - sorry to hear about interactions with nasty ex, but well done on keeping calm and carrying on!! Feel for you with the thoughts of Australia Day last year...but you are getting stronger (we all are) and Australia Day next year will be even better!!

Got my answer - he was sat outside the swimming pool when he sent me his email. Obviously too much trouble to ask teachers, so relied on me instead as 'he had it in his mind that class was at 10am'. Even if he did forget, he needs to learn to remember surely....

Another lesson learnt! Will ignore future emails like this (thought he was dashing to get DS to his lesson, not twiddling his thumbs whilst waiting in his car).

Ignore Ignore Ignore

He has a mobile. Most of them have a basic calander/appointment system. The posher ones complete diaries. Any appointments you need to share with him do the once. If he cannot put it in his diary or remember then that is his problem not yours.

If he calls you confirming details or going over them again, advise him to review your initial email/text. Do not give him the information again.

If your DS misses his swimming lesson that is your ex's fault not yours. Tough love I know as it is your son who misses out, however all the time you allow him to call you up over these things you are not disconnecting, you are enabling him to be a pathetic dad. How do you think he would cope if you were dead (not wishing!!!)? He would either have to remember or some other pathetic woman would have to support him.

Stop chasing him like with the school. Tell him the plan. Once. Do not listen to his questions/problems (unless they are reasonable) and refer him back to your original email/text/diary.

Do the same now with holidays/work trips abroad (funny how they seem to have stopped so much now his is married and OW is over here..) for the next 3 - 6 months. Once these dates are agreed send one email confirming them and then any questions/changes refer him to your original email (again acceptable allowances for emergencies etc but an old friend and drinks/a weekend away do not count as an emergency).

Be prepared for him not wanting his son around when new baby is born for a while. Also be prepared for your son to maybe regress a little when the baby comes. It happens in stable families let alone situations like yours!

Pathetic man starting to sound all cool and american with pants. How easily he is swayed...

I had something else to add but have forgotten while typing can't have been that important.

PS

You are in South East right? Next time I pop that way to visit my mum for the weekend would you like me to leave my motorbike outside your house and jacket there to wind ex up

Epic post sorry!

I must say I am astonished that no comms from Thursday am to Friday pm is seen as a triumph. I don?t mean to piss on your efforts Dee but I dread to think the level of comms previously ? this is excessively excessive comms.

The intention is to keep you engaged. Not so much to get you to run around doing the dirty work but to keep you engaged. You have said what you want and he heard it, he just has no intention of complying, insists that you will be kept dangling on a piece of string (and subsequently derided for not ?moving on?). He has no intention of you moving on.

I had to take out a restraining order on ex for precisely this: excessive comms. From the kids? shoe sizes to he wanted the shoe polish (go to the shop/get your own). It was a drastic step but not after repeatedly saying over a long period of time that I did not want such high level comms, which he flat ignored. Perhaps you could draw up a list/chart of comms ? dates, times ? to see for yourself that this level of comms is excessive.

I wasn?t exaggerating when I said that ?meaningful? comms need only be eg once every three months as a rule. He?s heard you Dee, he just has no intention of complying (think of the things you have asked him not to do ? he immediately goes right on doing it). Also, don?t relate to him on a personal level eg withering look. If he makes those comments, don?t reacte. Not a flicker, definitely not irritated ? ignore it. I would limit f2f contact drastically, preferably to once a year? (something to aim for) ? I appreciate that isn?t easy as eg f2f is necessitated during handover as ds is little. Is there any way you can not be in his physical presence? He wants to hurt you, and he knows how to do it

?Having a word with him? about eg personal comments, inappropriate relating is, in fact, relating to him personally. Don?t relate to him personally, your personal relationship is over, it?s business now. You?ve said all you need to say numerous times. Keep comms sparse, even about practical things. Have you done any boundaries work? Recommended, quite an eye-opener.

Had to laugh at the pants/trousers biscuits/cookies. He?s totally reinvented himself.

I would have completely ignored the text/email about swimming. It is his responsibility when DS is in his care. Please don't pick up the pieces for him - you are not staff, and even if you bloody were it would be your time off! I think you really have to be tough with this one Dee even though you feel like DS might be the one losing out (eg missing a swimming lesson) I think it's the only way your ex will learn how to be responsible and actually take care of his son ON HIS OWN. I really wouldn't be replying to any texts or emails unless they were extremely serious. How's that list coming along?

The americanisms are rather telling in my opinion. Very contrived and seems to me to be a symptom of being in love with an idea of what something is or represents. Wonder what will happen to them once the American Dream wears off.

Ah well done Dee ,i totally get what you mean about learning to communicate again with someone who was once ur partner and now a complete stranger .I guess thats the most difficult bit,trying to have a conversation with someone you once shared everything with and now you hardly recognise.I always think actions speak louder than words,keep on cutting back on the interaction,as time goes by and your life changes he will get used to it,but dont "enable " him,he has to learn to look after dc on his own and he aint goin to do that if hes textin u all the time.Hope you treat urself this weekend x

Courage Does Not Always Roar
By Paula Fox

When life gets you down and the problems you face are certainly more than your share...
When you run out of strength and you want to give up because it's just too much to bear...

I want to remind you, my precious friend, that you have what it takes inside...
extraordinary courage that may not roar but it doesn't cower and hide

It's the quiet voice inside you that says, "Tomorrow I'll try again."
It's the courage to keep on going... to see things through to the end

You are not defined by this moment in time. You are not what has happened to you
It's the way you choose to respond that matters and what you decide to do

Courage is not the absence of fear, but a powerful choice we make...
the choice to move forward with purpose?regardless of what it takes

It's the courage that's found in ordinary women who are hereos in their own way,
exhibiting strength and fortitude in life's challenges every day...

Valiant woman of exceptional courage with enduring power to cope...
taking each problem one day at a time and never giving up hope.

We're encouraged by the faith of others to survive and overcome,
with the courage to say, "I may be down...but the battle is not done!"

For the woman of courage is a winner... regardless of what she loses
She displays amazing beauty and strength with the attitude she chooses

She gives herself the permission she needs...to feel disappointed or sad.
But then she empowers herself with faith...to focus on good things...not bad

Her story is one of gentle strength reminding us all once more...
Steel is sometimes covered in velvet and...courage doesn't always roar

I get the control/refusal to comply now....

After a gap of some months*, today, ex sent me a photo of DS at play in his house a few hours after email about swimming. This photo was not requested and I did not acknowledge it. I did not stand on the doorstep this morning lamenting how I would miss DS that day/night which could have maybe been taken as a green light for ex to think about sending a photo (again, not that I would have wanted a photo and tbh, he is not that sensitive or emotionally attuned, well not to me anyway). So total mind games. I specifically ask for reduced comms and instead he ups the comms - for his own reasons. He didn't send me a single photo of DS when they were away for NY after he ballsed up calls - again, didn't ask for one and did not expect any, but would think if he were being genuine he would have sent one then (still wouldn't have acknowledged it though). Instead, DS hadn't been gone more than 6 hours by time of photo and he is coming back tomorrow morning.....

As said, didnt reply to him. I suspect he was trying to make me remember just how great a dad his is as I was out for the day.

Again, just feel drained again.......I definitely dont want to be his enabler, though realise I have been playing this role to his tune (damn).

Springy - yes, will need to be quite explicit and write down the whole boundaries and rules out for ex. So, really, I shouldn't even be engaging to re-inforce some of the things that we have agreed on previously. Just ignore? I have to admit, I do find that hard as it winds me up....like today and the swimming lesson, I was initially of the mind that I would not reply and then thought, 'but, DS may miss his lesson'. Of course, get what Xales and Well are saying about ignoring it, but half of me did feel responsible for making sure DS made his lesson (even though he was not on my 'watch') and also felt majorly peed that I had told him the info on several occasions and it seemed that he had just simply forgotten or couldn't be bothered to remember. But yes, this is still engaging with him on a personal level, which is not good. And yes, I need to remember that I cannot assume responsibility for DS whilst he is with ex as will just exhaust myself.

Unfortunately, I cant avoid seeing him for handovers as no family nearby to facilitate this and it would be a bit much to ask a friend to come over a couple of times a week, esp as most are mums so would be busy with own family life at those particular times. Contact should be reduced soon though as doing the every other weekend access from Feb, so wont see him at all during the week (he was picking DS up on a Monday after nursery and taking him back to his house and then back to mine for bed; as he has now moved away, I expect he will either ask to drop this - unlikely - or ask to have DS overnight that night - most likely. This was partly borne from him being away on business a lot in the week and him not able to do drop-off on Tues am, but Xales is right, they have reduced a lot in last few months, still has UK trips, but overseas has not been for a while; overnight on Weds, so he then takes him to nursery on Thurs am and then again one day at the weekend - seeing him twice within space of a little over 24 hours....can see now that this is not good, but, for me, seeing DS every weekend was a huge coping mechanism for me when I started working full-time etc). But, yes, agree, a period of 36 hours with no manic comms is hardly cause for breaking out that bottle of champagne**. Hope it doesn't escalate to cause for a restraining order, but realise I can effect this a bit with my responses now.

Xales - yes, getting diary sorted out now, and will bear in mind what you have mentioned about agreeing dates for next 3-6 months. Think if I weren't here, new wife would have been picking up the flack (ex told me early on, last year that he knows he is lazy and she knows he is lazy and she doesn't mind! . Their business of course). Oh yes, motorbike parked outside would be fantastic! Only I am not in SE (cant say exactly where on here as would give too much away and I probably reveal lots on here anyway!)......boo!

Well - the americanisms, I cant stand only because I dread DS coming back saying the same things. Silly I know and young children are endlessly impressionable. Will just have to grin and bear it if it does happen and correct him.

• actually, no, he sent me a photo of DS at his house opening some Christmas presents (must have been taken on Christmas Eve) on Christmas Day. No message, just the photo - decided best policy then was to continue to ignore (may remember, I have said umpteen times do not send me any photos and I do not request photos of DS). Did I mention before? I cant remember sometimes - though think I need to dig out that incident diary I started a while back...

** the same bottle that he bought back in Dec 2010 after getting physical with new wife - presented on the pretext of us opening it when we got pregnant with second baby......its quite a nice bottle, so will save it for a really happy occasion!

Patience - wow, powerful and bang-on words there. Had a bit of a silent cry (a good cry! Just a tear or two) as it really resonated for me......

I have copied and pasted it to a word doc and will be putting it up on my fridge and another copy in my handbag to carry around with me.

Thank-you. x

Darling

Gosh he isn't making thing remotely easy for you is he. Again, excellent advise which I can't really add much more to. I think the key is to sort out the ground rules for access. My ex has my son every other weekend, Friday to Sunday afternoon and then every other Thursday overnight with an agreement to consider Friday to Monday morning when he begins school. I think it is tricky if your ex would want and be granted 50/50 custody but I can't imagine the 'scrappy' nature of a night her and a night there in the week is great for continuity for your DS and also exposes to you to seeing your ex every two seconds. Whilst there are many men that bugger off it is good for your DS that he wants to be involved with him but it does seem on his terms and to suit his working/personal life - you need to get the balance right to suit you and DS too. I'll PM you with some details of how ex and I arrived at our agreement which may or maynot be helpful.

On the emailing you about things/photos etc - not sure if this would be playing into his hands but perhaps it would be worth sending him an email along the lines of:-

Now we are officially separated and you have a new wife and new life, I feel that we need to begin the next phase of our life as co-parents but respecting the new boundaries that need to be drawn. I feel that over the last 12 months I have been supportive of you as possible as you adjust to being in sole care of DS and of course we both want the best for him. However, your constant emails about clothing sizes, times of activities, calls when DS is unsettled etc are beginning to raise question marks about your ability to be fully in charge of DS - either that or you do not respect the fact that we are no longer together and it is no longer my job to constantly advise and support you in relation to parenting. I would suggest that it becomes your responsibility from now on to be on top of timing and location of activities and for you to measure DS etc etc and not rely on my being constantly available to provide this help to you. We will of course continue to exchange and listen to important relevent information about the development and behaviour of our son for the rest of his life but we both need to take responsibility for the day to day details of his life. In a similar vein whilst you may be sending photos of DS enjoying himself with you when he is not with me, I find them a little instrusive and they serve as a reminder that I am not his parent in residence 100% of the time - something which I believe you know causes me great sadness and so would appreciate if you desist from sending them. etc etc......then if he continues to send photos/ask you inane questions you know that he is doing so 'on purpose' as you will have set out your case.....anyway just a thought and not sure it is the 'right' thing but maybe the other lovely ladies may have a view on this.

I'm looking forward to seeing DS after his first w/end away for a couple of months. Went out for drinks with friends Friday one of whom had spent Australia Day with ex (he invited himself post surfing).....she tells me has has put on about 5kgs (hah!) and she and other wives were sniggering as this time last year he was known as shirt off as he got into great shape but never wore a shirt and was often admiring himself in windows etc....none of his friends have met OW either so she either can't face it or they are just going to wait until they believe everyone has forgotten that they are big cheaty pants and are open arms (not a bad strategy but equally not commanding a lot of respect apparently)....also found out he went to NY and Hawaii with her over xmas which I am a bit hmmmmphhh about as we talked about doing that trip and of course he has buckets of money to do it with hey ho...he has also pissed them all off apparently by falling out of contact now things with OW are going well again....

possibly as a result ended up going out for a drink with man in bar who asked me (wasn't going to but friends were like why not)...anyway slightly disastrous as when I got to other bar realised he was v. v. drunk and a bit up himself so left quite quickly - although not before a mini not really snog but touching of lips at bar (I was a bit tipsy but not drunk)...he was also very very minor TV actor but recognisable (where we live is very like hamptons are to NY so lots of holiday folk up here during holidays)...anyway ran off when realised being an idiot but still, there are adventures to be had and felt a bit rock and roll for 5 seconds, not bad for a 41 year old ; ) ....

other than that cleaned my car for the first time ever so feeling a bit I am woman hear me roar...aware that makes me sound spoiled/pathetic but my house is up a cliff so climbing down 60 stairs with vacuum, hose, power cable and running up and down turning things on honestly seemed beyond me last year....everything in fact seemed beyond me tbh so feeling a bit more in charge of things....again, aware it sounds a teensy thing but beginning to think I was actually a bit depressed as honestly going food shopping was a stretch at times and now am feeling like I can anything for myself....

lots of love one and all
manual labour dolly x

I wouldn't send the above. Whilst it is an excellent basis for agreeing ground rules, we already know that this has been done again and again. He agrees and then ignores.

It is simply an issue of control, XP still wants to be in a relationshp with OP in which he calls the shots, despite having a new wife himself. Issues around DS are simply the mechanism he uses.

Also, and I know this from bitter experience. You cannot make your XP a better parent than he is. He is what he is, and you can no longer cover/prop him up. Your DS will be fine, and if he is let down, that is NOT your responsibility.

Ignore, Ignore, Ignore!

I agree with Downunder's suggestion.

It's not the end of the world if DS misses a swimming lesson / wears clothes that are too big or small for him / is told at 5am that Mummy is sleeping so he can't speak to her.

Dee I'm saying this as a huge supporter of you and the way you've moved forward... you need to start to let go of DS a little bit more. Let go of the details. It really is the only way ex will learn to take responsibility.

As long as you're there as a safety net ex will never really learn to do the job of parenting, and in the end DS will suffer.

As Dolly suggests, reiterate the fact that his constant harassment of you only makes you doubt his ability to parent and that is of great concern to you.

I would go a step further and stop email contact completely. The notebook should be quite sufficient for communicating important info about DS.

Do you have a friend whom ex could call in an emergency, who could then easily contact you? That would take away the need for him to phone / text you, and also make him think twice about whether it is an emergency.

You've come an awful long way but this guy is still controlling you. Get tough!

Dee, you really need to view this situation from outside if that is at all possible.

Look on it as though you are in a film. This current cinematic release is a Swedish, gloom and doom introspective look into the lives of unhappy adults and the decisions made by each of them which makes their misery and selfishness even more tragic. You are the supporting actress and the ?stars? of this saga are your husband and his current wife. Your character is really quite depressing and, although I know you don't mean to, you are playing it really well. The critics are saying 'but no woman would really act like this surely?', 'I just wanted to shake the ex-wife, she seemed to enjoy taking the bait of the ex-husband', ' why didn't the ex-wife just cut him off and put an end to the show-off dramas of the leading man?'.

Don?t you want to be the leading lady in a funny, quirky, feel-good rom-com? If you do, then it could be a possibility in less time than you think. However, as I have stated before, only YOU can make it happen.

Another reason for making the break Dee is ex may start telling you his wife's top parenting tips once she becomes a mum.
F%ck goin thru that ....

Very easy for him to turn any communication between you into him being a victim,wife the rescuer and you the persecutor.For him any communication is a "reward" even if its negative attention.

Just remember you are in charge ,you have the right to not reply.He isnt ready to let go........
you are.I would start today,everyday you ignore unnecessary messages,cross it off on your calendar.You can choose to change your own behaviour thats the good bit,he has no control over you anymore,enjoy your freedom.

Wow, you've had some tough posts Dee. I'm sorry about mine - you took it well. And I meant it well!

I suspect you may feel that my take on your situation is coloured by my experiences with an horrifically controlling ex, that I may be projecting my experiences onto yours. I wish in one way that I could say that were true but imo he has all the hallmarks of a controlling abuser. What concerns me is that you are as much in his web as ever - it is agonising to read your posts, to read the latest stunt he has pulled on you, to hear you and others calling him 'forgetful' or 'lazy' etc. He is none of these: he's wide awake and knows what he is doing.

I have held back (believe it or not) because I know how much you are hurting and I didn't want to make it worse PLUS I hoped it wasn't what it looked like, hoped that here was a man who was lost and didn't know what he was doing.. but imo he is stitching you up and, also imo, things are going to get worse. He's on to too good a thing and won't let you go easily. He is weaving a web around you every moment and by continuing to relate to him as though he were a normal person - a normal person who has lost their way somewhat - then imo yu're not getting the sum of the man. You hear it often on MN, the phrase run for the hills and it could not be more apt for you. He is a thoroughly bad lot - actually, frightening, calculated. As long as you are exposed to him he will have power over you.

Please notice that he gives you the opposite of what you ask for. You ask him not to send the photos, he sends the photos - relentlessly, over and over; you ask him to keep in contact when ds is with him, he doesn't keep in contact. This is someone who had beaten you down with a campaign of calls, emails, comments, emotional manipulation (re 'if only I had known you loved me I wouldn't have strayed' [subtext, it's your fault]; all that shit just before he went off to get married...) - he's torturing you and it's agony to watch; and the confusion you feel - so much stronger now since he stepped up his campaign. H'es got you on a spit roast and gets off on hurting you.

Read Men Who Hate Women and Women Who Love Them - Susan Forward (I think?). He is using his wife to torture you - and, later on, he will use you to torture his wife (if he isn't already). He gets off on it, the sad, sick bastard. He has groomed you, is grooming his wife and, very sadly, he will groom your son. How do I know that? have a guess.

Yes, Dolly wrote a great email, but based on past form he's going to do exactly the opposite of what you ask, because he's a sh*t.

She's destined to be the most "awesome mom" and worse "cool step-mom" in the whole world.

I'm sorry that you and your son have got at least 15 more years, if not a lifetime, of this sh*t

Sorry, I was a tad blunt.

The strange thing is that I feel sorry for miss awesome too, I think in a few years time, when you are further out of his orbit, it will be clear that you've had a lucky escape.

Hi All

Slightly off piste to recent discussions in the course of some research I came across a US woman who has written a book about women who are suddenly left. It is UNCANNILY accurate and I can tick every single one. Its like men join a secret cult when they decide to leave and exhibit exactly the same behaviour - couldn't not post as was like reading my (recent) life story......

Ten Hallmarks of Wife Abandonment Syndrome

1. Prior to the separation, the husband had seemed to be an attentive, engaged spouse, looked upon by his wife as honest and trustworthy.

1. The husband had never indicated that he was unhappy in the marriage or thinking of leaving, and the wife believed herself to be in a secure relationship.

1. By the time he reveals his feelings to his wife, the end of the marriage is already a fait accompli and the husband moves out quickly.

1. The husband typically blurts out the news that the marriage is over "out-of-the-blue" in the middle of a mundane domestic conversation.

1. Reasons given for his decision are nonsensical, exaggerated, trivial or fraudulent.

1. The husband?s behavior changes radically, feeling to his wife that he has become a cruel and vindictive stranger.

1. The husband exhibits no remorse; rather, anger is directed toward his wife and he may describe himself as the victim.

1. In most cases, the husband is having an affair and moves in directly with his girlfriend.

1. The husband makes no attempt to help his wife, either financially or emotionally, as if all positive regard for her has been extinguished.

10. Systematically devaluing the marriage, the husband redefines what had previously been an agreed-upon view of the couple's joint history.

Yep that about sums it up Dolly.My ex will always be the "victim" in this .

Oh yes - that rings true here Dolly. My ex is continuing to be an absolute shit although he would never admit that he is angry with me. He is angry, it's quite clear, but he just substitutes the word 'disappointed' instead and doesn't clock on that this is incredulous on so many more levels. I guess we are uncomfortable reminders of their shabby behaviour and we haven't done the decent thing by handing over our children and all the finances on a plate and then disappear quietly into the night (acceptable), or just plain drop off the face of the planet (preferable).

Mine has just asked for a 'power of attorney' from me so he can 'sell the house'.

Hahahahahahaha.

Just like that - as if he was asking for a cup of sugar. I honestly think he thinks I will give it to him too. He is THAT detached from reality. No doubt he will play the victim card to his (now) nearest and dearest when I won't. Boo hoo.

Dee - your ex is clearly equally psychotic. He clearly cannot understand why you don't want to live in the house next door to him and be best friends with his new wife and go on shopping trips with her and have girly nights out with white wine spritzers and all go on holiday together. He just CANNOT understand it and he will never understand it - BECAUSE HE'S NOT NORMAL! I agree with others who have said that whilst Dolly's email is very articulate and to the point, there's little point in sending it. Past track record indicates that he will smile and nod and then ignore it, or smile and nod and do the opposite. Whichever it is he is still keeping you engaged.

WELL. I have just fallen off my sofa. Is he on crack?

Assuming your house is in both of your names why on earth would he believe you would consent to giving him power of attorney? Is it because the house is overseas and you can't travel to sign papers?

If so (as I know from experience when I thought we were selling the house last year when I was overseas) when and if you get an offer that you both agree on (when the split of the proceeds from the house sale is legally agreed) you can transfer limited power of attorney (only for things pertaining to the house sale) to effect the sale and division of assets (which needs to be water tight) but obviously not before hand as you are clearly aware.

Good luck - sounds like you are going have to some 'interesting' conversations....

There is no reason why I can't travel to his country to sign any papers - I am just unwilling to do so at the moment because we haven't yet agreed about how everything is to be divided up. I think he thinks he can sell it by 'stealth' by 'craftily' getting a power of attorney from me.

Yes dear readers, he really is that 'confused'. He is a sociopath, but fortunately for me not a terribly bright one. Sigh.

I expect more ranting and frothing at the mouth from him. My ex will never forgive me for the way he's treated me (I don't want to trivialise the holocaust but someone once said this about the nazis and jews didn't they).

Hi ? certainly been an eyeopener. And given me lots of things to think about.

I think that I now can see clearly where I have been going wrong. I don?t want to over-analyse, but, if I asked myself honestly, I probably was of the frame of mind that Springy mentioned. I did think that ex was a lost man who had lost his way/didn?t know what he was doing. I think I have enabled this stance some way from day one ? by effectively laying main blame with ex?s dad and his influence; by pandering to his inane requests for information and attempts to contact etc. Even up until yesterday if pushed to discuss ex and pregnancy, I would have talked my way into the viewpoint that ex must have been talked into having a baby so soon, how it must have been new wife?s decision and he just fell into it (I haven?t been discussing this and have no intention to, so please don?t worry on that score. Just thinking about how I would have relayed things and processed stuff). I hope that things are not as bad as predicted, though know that many have lived the reality of this, but I now know that ex is very clearly in charge of his full faculties and is very aware of each and every decision he makes. There is no fallback, there is no evil dad muttering things into his ears, there is no deranged new wife forcing him into having a baby with her. He had freedom of choice and those were his choices. And more importantly, I need to completely get away and block these choices. I shouldn?t care if he chooses to have a baby every single year from now on in or if they live to a ripe old age together. I now need to work towards this point. So, yes, I see that the complete block and detachment is key.

I agree he is not normal to not understand the effect of some of his actions and decisions, and I now need to exchange the ?not normal? view from one where I am feeling that he is not normal as in not himself and ?ahh, he has gone mad and is headed for a breakdown as he never used to act/say/think like this? and instead into one where he is not normal and this is himself (poor grammar, sorry), the real him that is now in place.

I hope that he is not grooming DS (fills me with terror), but then I am reminded of things he has said to me, and which I hope he doesn?t go around repeating to DS in the safety of his own home.

I don?t think I could cope with 15 more years of this ? though can guess that this will lessen as time goes on and even more so as I start to steel myself, remove myself from his orbit and interactions are less and less and have no effect on me.

God, it?s just so, so draining at times.

Have you actually met/talked to his new wife Dee ?

Just wondering if you could maybe meet her for a coffee/informal chat as she is going to play a big part in your DS's life and maybe you need to cultivate some sort of relationship with her ? And maybe (in the long run) deal with her wrt your DS re arranging times of access etc, anything re school etc. Maybe, just maybe, she will be easier to deal with especially if your ex is doing a number on her too . You would have to very careful, clever, whatever not to play into anybody's hand but it might be the way to go - more than one way to skin a rabbit and all that.

Just a thought.......

Hi Dee - I just realised when I was doing the ironing - I hope you didn't think I was shouting at you when I used capitals about your ex not being normal - I was just trying to emphasise the point. If anything I was shouting at your ex!

I can understand the dilemma. When ex told me about his 'new' girlfriend at christmas and I chucked him out of the house, he STILL wanted to do things 'as a family' the next day as 'ds would like that'.* I told him that, no, I wouldn't be doing 'family' things the next day as in the circumstances it just wasn't normal. DS may have loved the idea of it, but not the reality of his mum being miserable and struggling to cope in the company of a sociopath and bully. The upsetting reality is that there's going to be enough dysfuction for DS to cope with as he grows up and he doesn't need to be exposed to anymore bizarre situations unnecessarily.

It is tough - but our ex's are using the children to have it all their own way and to offload their guilt onto us. You won't be suffering it for the next 15 years because we are evolving creatures and you won't be the same person you are now in 15 years - you won't even be the same person you are now tomorrow.

*The reality is that the ex can't bear his own company and needs constant validation to prop him up, even if it's me - the hated ex wife (it's as if he's worried that if he's left alone without interaction with other humans his very existence will be snuffed out, and actually, if I had an empty little head like his I'd probably be a bit worried too).