Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships

[ViVee]

I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread, a place to vent, offer support, advice.

I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship but I'm trying to find the tools to fight back - I've recently started counselling & the Lundy Bancroft book (Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry and Controlling Men) (recommended by mumsnetters) has become my bible.

Anyone else feel the same?

bigbuttons well, starting a row over something pointless in the first place, I would try and discuss the problem calmly and H would try his hardest to make it personal, and escalate it into high drama (lots of hand waving, eye rolling, exagerated gasps etc) CONSTANT interruption of what I am saying, talking really really fast, going off on tangents and introducing loads of different issues so its hard to keep it all straight or respond, suddenly changing to a sulk and refusing to speak, leaving the room, storming off, switching back to raging shouting, packing all his bags and calling the whole marriage off (remember this usually starts over something trivial) twisting my words round, making out that I said something/accused him or something I didnt, blaming me for everything, going back on things that he has just said, even if it was 2 mins previously, completely denying that certain events/agreements/conversations ever took place, basically anything to make me feel tired and exasperated and want to give up the talking about the issue OR that would make me break down and cry so he could then accuse me of being hysterical and mad. Also making sure the aguement goes on for hours and hours and even days. Even if I made up with him, if the topic was ever mentioned again, he would pick right up where he left off and just carry on ranting as if all the making up hadnt happened!

the kinds of things that started these rows would be:
-reminding him to give DS his dinner (H's ONE childcare job) because he was hungry
-saying that I wanted to buy a TV (with MY money)
-crying because I had had a miscarriage
-I paid a handyman too much money for a job.

• refusing sex in the middle of the night because I was tired

I got out but it took me ten years.

Met someone when I was 20, was supposed to be a quick fling after a four year relationship, it lasted 10 years

After the first year, I didn't like him anymore, but went on and had two children!

Was too scared to get out of the relationship, he was verbally and emotionally abusive and see someone else for three years who i found out about when she rang me when I was six months pregnant with my first, we were living at his mums at the time and I had nowhere else to go.

When I reached 30 it got to the stage that I just wanted to be dead, I started thinking about gasing myself and my kids in my car to get away from him, so one night I got drunk and told him I didn't love him and wanted him to leave.

What followed was six months of hell when he left, smashing windows on the house, abusing me at my place of work, coming and taking the children and not bringning them back, two injunctions, broke my nose in front of the kids.

Was hell.

It was 15 years ago now, and we talk for the sake of the children but I moved them over 100 miles away so he couldn't just turn up on the door step. They haven;t seen him now for 18 months.

Biss, my youngest goes to Uni this year so far then as I am concerned we no longer need to ever talk to each other again

wizbit and fabby those are such inspiring stories that somebody can be so low and beaten down but can find that strength to go and change their lives and the lives of their children.

bigbuttons the rows were horrendous... I remember one row starting over washing up. There wasn't enough hot water so I boiled the kettle instead. I emptied the kettle into the sink when it boiled and ex went off his head... I can't remember the details now but he just went on and on and on about how dangerous it was because we could have been electrocuted - it was a cordless kettle etc etc etc etc.
I came out of the house and sat in the car and rang my mum and just cried saying he's gone mad and I don't know what to do. I was just in shock, I couldn't understand at all what had just happened or how it started.

I wrote a list of things that ex did which really upset me, once I got started I couldn't seem to stop writing and I kept that list and every time I thought that my resolve was weakening I would read it again and my heart would harden .

Even now which is 6 months after I left he tries to continue to control and abuse me... Just 5 mins ago I spoke to him about access and I put my foot down and suggested a date that suited me. He knew it, so just to stick the knife in at the end of the 2 minute call he says "thanks Humpty" all nicey nicey in a really sarcastic voice, just so I know that he hasn't got one over on him... wanker!!

He also hated mumsnet... he called it "bitchnet" and I think that he was terrified that I would post about myself and a bunch of ladies would pile in and tell me straight what an arse he actually was, so it was pretty much banned in our house!!

Humpty, I'm sorry, I know i shouldn't laugh, but "it was a cordless kettle etc etc etc etc" How can you get electrocuted from a cordless kettle?
What a numpty!

Thank you humpty,fabby nicecuppa andwizbit for sharing. I recognise a lot of what you are saying. However, my stbex is very controlled in his abuse and anger most of the time. When we argued whilst I still thought I was mad and he was sane, it was like being in a court room with the worst prosecuting lawyer in the world. He'd tear me to pieces and I had no idea what the original argument was about. As he was doing this he'd accuse me of going off on a tangent and say we would get back to my point later ( that made him look reasonable of course). We never did of course because that was just a rouse to do more bigbuttons bashing. All the arguments became a dissecting of my faults, always, even if they and started as complaint about him. They would go on for hours and hours until weeping exhausted and confused I'd plead guilty and beg to be given a chance to change my terrible ways and I'd never do it again whatever it was.
He is at his most verbally abusive infront of the children because he knows I'll fight less. I have to put my fingers in my ears when he starts now and walk off, even if the children are there, because I will not listen to what he is saying. Then of course I am unreasonable for not allowing him to speak, even if it is to calling me a " fcking cnt" infront of the kids

Do you know what I fell utterly utterly exhausted

also ladies I'm so sorry I realise that I'm talking all about me and not addressing what you're saying about yourselves. I'm so sorry. It's just there's such a lot for me to get off my chest after 15 years of shit. Hopefully I'll calm down soon and will able able to lend an ear to someone else. Thanks for bearing with me

you know I remember after one row walking out of the kitchen exploding with my own impotence and telling him that if I could do I would kill him. I meant it. His response was to be sympathetic! He told me he believed me and understood! WTF?

bigbuttons dont feel guilty about posting about yourself, post as much as you need to. I think this thread is all over the place as there are a lot of us, each with such difficult and complicated stories to tell but I dont think it matters though. I think its great that this safe place exists where we can all say whatever we like. I am also finding it a huge relief to talk to people who understand what what I have been going through.

We've denied to the outside for so long, and even to ourselves. Normal RL support can't handle this shit, so best to just get it out there, whoever needs to!

I've bored myself of myself at the moment, just enjoying the quiet, trying to make sense, and help others where I can. Sometimes helping someone else,, opens up a thought and an idea for me.. it's a win/win situation sometimes!

Break the isolation, break the silence! We are all here to rant, vent, listen and learn!

bigbuttons have you ever thought before that you feeling utterly utterly exhausted was the whole point for him? That he does it deliberately to wear you down? I couldnt get my head round this at first, I just didnt want to believe that H was like that, but now I see that all his angry ranting was a deliberate control tactic Its easier to spot now that I look back at my list of "triggers" and see they were all occasions where he wanted his own way.

you said " my stbex is very controlled in his abuse and anger most of the time" which reminds me of a Lundy phrase that he is "not losing his temper, but using his temper"

I saw a life coach about a year ago and on the last session I remember saying "either it's my fault or he's been deliberately abusive for all these years - I'm not sure I could handle that". It was the last time I saw her. I'm getting quite angry now towards all the people that have stood by and watched this for 20 years - mainly my mother.

You know what barbie, no point in blaming others, they were in as much denial as we were. I know the stuff my mum said, I wanted to shout why didn't anyone talk to me about it?

But we all know that we are strong women, able to hold our own (that's why we are often targeted, a challenge, see?) we'd have shot their observations down in flames.

You know on here barbie, that women come on prattle about something silly and then, out of no-where suddenly describe the most heinous of acts against them, we all roar as one, He's abusive! but she isn't ready to deal with it all yet. She runs.

remember who did what they did and why, your family were there in the wings, waiting for the day your eyes opened. They don't know what to do or say, they are scared of opening the subject for fear of losing all contact with you.

Answer is that he WAS deliberately abusive for all those years. That is it. That is how it was. Not your fault, totally HIS decision. Nothing actually at all to do with you. Let (and him) go. He's held your life hostage for long enough.

I agree barbie there is no point in blaming others. We would not listen until we were ready anyway would we? I mean look how difficult it is now, we DO know but the truth is vey hard to stomach.

My mother, who is herself pretty manipulative herself, has told me for years that I was changed from living with stbex, that i was unhappy a s=hadow of my former confident self. I knew she was right in a way, but because she herself is always on a power trip I assumed she was jealous that he had taken away her control of me and was trying to get me back under her control iyswim?
Both things were of course right, he had taken away her control, he had become the new dominator, but he had also changed me.
My mother was the kind of person who always moved the goal posts when I was a child, so no matter how I tried I was always doing something wrong, failing to live up to expectations. One day black was white, then it was purple.

Of course I see now I was ripe for the picking. A woman would had grown up with no self confidence, no inherent belief in her own convictions, who had always been in the wrong and didn't understand why.
What I find odd about myself is that I actively pursued stbex, even when he tried to end the relationship before we had dc's. Perhaps that was also part of the whole game.
Of course with hindsight I can see all the signs, things that worried me then, very much but that I chose to ignore.
My girls will ALL be reading LUNDY when they start getting into serious relationships. Every young woman should be made to read this book.

Can I ask how you all feel about yourselves now? I feel bad, but I know why. i am plucking up the courage to start looking in the mirror again

barbie although on the surface I seem to have moved on... new house, new area, making friends, money sorted, kids settled etc...

Underneath I am still so angry most of the time and I hate myself for it. Everytime I have contact with ex, it just brings it all out again and then I am so on edge and short tempered and I feel more bad for being on a short fuse with my kids

He destroyed my confidence in myself, and my confidence in my work... I am a qualified primary shcool teacher, but thanks to him I now have no confidence in my abilities to work... he actively persuaded me that I wasn't good enough and couldn't hack it, instead of supporting me on a bad day, he said it was ok, but i had to accept that maybe it was too much for me????

He also prevented me from seeing friends and family and making new friends which is soul destroying because I am left thinking that I have no friends because there's something wrong with me. He picked on every aspect of my personality and turned it against me for example, if I was friendly and chatty, he said I was boring and people only listened out of politeness but actually they were thinking "when will she shut up and go away"... I started to believe that too.

He told me over and over that I was a bad mother. when ds2 was born, if I asked dd (then age 5) to play with him for 5 minutes while I had a shower, he said that I was neglecting my kids and I didn't care about them. In truth they probably were a bit neglected... not as in mistreated but they didn't get all the love and affection they get now because my head was so full of his crap that I couldn't fit it all in and also I always tried to protect them and keep them out of his way. I feel terrible about this, until we moved away, they never had a friend to play. They never had equal footing in their own house, they always had to shut up and stay out of his way. That makes me feel really bad and guilty.

He also made me feel fat and unattractive... I have always struggled a bit with my weight, and I was so worn down by him that I had no energy for cooking although I do actually enjoy it. So we got by on stuff out of the freezer and take aways... also that is because that's what he wanted to eat, he is a greedy pig who thinks nothing of eating 4 mars bars in a row and then asking for 4 rounds of toast and peanut butter. Every time I ate something he would make a noise like a pig and say something like "don't you think you've had enough" and then if I put it back, then he would say "don't be silly eat it if you want". He would aslo make comments like "you'd feel so much better if you got up earlier and did your hair and make up properly"... I really hated that comment, because I acutally was desparate for sleep not to get up early... The result of all this is that I am overwieght and feel really unattractive. He wouldn't let me get my hair cut so it was long and just "there" with no style, first thing I did when I left was to get it styled properly... nothing glamorous but something I chose. I'm not actually a fat slut like he made out. I do take pride in my appearandce and my house but it's not until now taht I am away from him that I have started a diet, taken more care over my appearance, little things like wearinng perfume and jewellery again and taking a pride in my house.

Whoever said about rl support not understanding is totally right. I'll bet if I said all taht to someone with no experience of abuse they might say that I was being oversensitive, but it's not. It's these little subtle attacks which hurt the most.

Oh Humpty, big hugs to you, your poor thing What an absolute barsteward he is. especially at the pig noises. I had long hair which I cut stbex HATED me cutting it. He wouldn't speak to me for ages. Then he was always making comments about how nice someone's hair was, who had long hair and how it would suit me.
He also used to go on ad nauseum about all the women who fancied him and were trying to make a move on him when he was out with his mates. It was so awkward for him, poor love, he didn't know where to put himself. I told him I didn't want to know in the end. Then I started to tell him I wish he'd just bloody run off with one of these women and leave us alone.

You see my stbex is much more cunning than some it seems. He often compliments me on my looks, especially if I put myself down. He'll tell me I'm slim and attractive. That any man would fancy me. I find this so hard to stomach. He tells me I am good looking and attractive but HE doesn't want me of course. It's a head fuck isn't it?

I always remember once about 2 weeks after ds1 was born, we were going to a friend's party and I was very unsure about how I looked, you know first baby, flabby tum, bags under the eyes. I was desperate for him to say something nice. I had dressed up and really tried. I even asked him if I looked ok. He wouldn't answer, I kept asking. He screeched the car to a halt and said if I didn't stop going on , trying to crowbar a compliment out of him he would turn the car round and drive home again. I was devastated and in tears and just sat there in silence for the rest if the journey. Of course then what happens is I'm miserable and he asks me " what's wrong?" in such an innocent smiley way. Fucker

He has been cruel like this many many times, always when I am very vunerable either in pregnancy or after the birth of a baby
I too am a primary school teacher, stbex is always telling me how I should go back to teaching because I'm obviously good at it, infact I should try for senior management. etc etc. Then the next day he'll make a comment about me not being able to cope in the house, how it's a tip, full of "your shit" as he kindly calls any of my stuff, how I neglect the children etc.

So on the one hand I have him tell me positive things about myself then he doesn't back this up with his general behaviour at all. He too tells me I am neglecting my kids by being on the computer and doing what he now calls "displacement activities" ( see how he is with words?), ie anything that might be construed as a hobby or pleasurable like gardening, sewing, shopping even. Anything that doesn't involve caring for the kids and doing my work.

Now if I ask for help he tells me it is my job and he is doing his, he won't do mine as well and I am lazy trying to get him to do my work. He is self employed so if I ask for help with the kids he'll say that I am taking him away from his work therefore denying the children money for food and clothes.
He counts his time in how much he is worth per hour. So if he's had to come and help unexpectedly that'll be £100 we've lost in money. He never fails to point this out, no matter how unobtrusively.
If ever I behave in a way he doesn't like he'll always tell me I am not thinking about what's best for the kids, I am selfish and neglectful. He knows best of course, if we all follow his way it'll be alright.
Of course if I point this out his immediate retort is that I want absolute power, that I am controlling, dominating and selfish, I will not even throw him little scraps.No man could ever put up with me, unless they were a wimp.

Oh bloody hell, that all just cam out, sorry humpty.

buttons don't apologise, I haven't let all that out before in terms of how I actually feel, I have focussed on what he did rather than how it made me feel. It hurts actually to think about it, doesn't it... And it hurts to think that I have let myself down by allowing him to treat me like this for so long, I feel like I have denied myself my fairy tale happily ever after... I'm not that naive to think that life is a bed of roses but everybody deserves some happiness and respect and support from their partner, not to be undermined

humpty you got out. You did it, you did it. YOU got your kids out. You made them safe and gave then a chance to be happy. Now is the time to begin the slow process of healing. It will be slow and it will be painful. Letting it all out helps. Allow yourself to be bloody furious, don't try and keep it in. Here is a good place because we all understand, we understand and have experienced everything and we are all here.
I tell you what I wish I could come and give you a hug and share a bottle or 2.
You will find someone decent, someday, you will. I will too, even with 6 kids!

I'm going on holiday tomorrow so I'll go on a bit now if you don't all mind. I'm going to have to face a lot on my own while we're away.

herhissyness bigbuttonsinteresting that thing about mothers - we have so much unfinished business with our own family that it's likely that even if they tried to say anything we wouldn't listen. My mother's relationship with my dad was an equal (she earned more money and did what she wanted) but she never stood up to his temper and seemed afraid. She never stood up to us when he was angry with us either - believes it is better to say nothing. I stood up to him as I was older but still hung on to her - but I feel she didn't like the part of me that stood up and so I could never please her because I was never like her.

Again interesting what you say about men choosing us because we are a challenge - because we are strong - my OH's mother was like my Dad, but really shouty all the time. Couldn't call his name without shouting at him. So I think he was expecting a long term partner to provide him with the same. So much unfinished business going on which is where the Engel book is good. It helps us forgive that part of the abuser, and that part of ourselves that allows them to abuse. After a while there is a line that is crossed (I think this was very early on in the relationship) where the indifference and disrespect creep in. That's where we either make it or break - the weaker women run a mile (wisely) but us feisty defensive ones stay and fight.

What's more is that while we are fighting we aren't much fun to be around, so we lose the people that can keep it in perspective. The only people that are left are immediate family (some of them because most are messed up), or women in a similar situation. As you can probably see I am very analytical and that also doesn't help. We reason with ourselves and with them, become drawn in trying to justify our situation.

I've learnt through watching children how unchecked abuse starts very early. There are the leaders and the followers, sure. But it's when the leaders abuse their privilege (like Ed Balls - talk about abuse of power - no better than the rest of them but that's another issue) that it becomes WRONG. I've seen kids be leaders and they are great fun and hold a group together and it's nice. But I see kids that take one aside and dominate them (usually dd) and it's unchecked by parents (oh she's so confident, my little darling, blabla) that it develops, I think, into abuse.

humpty what I'm learning from you here really strikes a chord with me - the absolute destruction of your ability to trust your own instincts and focus on what needs to be done. You can't do what's right when you are running about defending your position or doubting yourself or he's filling your headspace with the horrible things that he's said or done (or NOT done).

That's when I say I don't know who I am any more. But ever since I've disengaged from his abuse (but not from his good side - that would be destructive) - only a few weeks ago really, I have been much clearer about what I CAN do.

I think living with someone who treats you as the enemy will mean that you can't function - and yes, I have plenty of misplacement activities and stay up to late, and let the house get a mess, and not bother with my weight. I'm hoping that's simply because I have been too busy fighting him. And he does come home with multipacks of chocolate bars, (he's v.slim), and he puts stuff in places, all over the place, and he dips into housework when he wants which is no use in the greater scheme, and he doesn't reply when I need an answer to a practical question, and he disrupts bedtime. These things are designed to get a response, to maintain control in some bizzare way and they do, not because they force us to fly off the handle (we don't), but because we are so wrapped up in potential conflict.

Don't worry about your kids. Children are massively resilient and they can recover from whatever it was that made you not able to be the perfect mother to them. You can see where their needs are and you couldn't before but it wasn't your fault. He set that up, put his needs above yours AND your childrens. Mine is doing the same. I like the expression 'happy wife happy life'. That's a starting point for a healthy family. He made you unhappy, deliberately. To him it's "Unhappy wife, unhappy kids, happy husband". It's sick really. But you know what they need, which means you can repair the damage. Just being a happy Mum will probably be enough.

Humpty you didn't let yourself down - he took advantage of the fact that you had a chink in your armour. Try and fix that. Try and see the vulnerable person in you and recognise that you were made vulnerable through the way you were brought up - you were not brought up to be resistant and strong. The vulnerable person in you should have been supported but instead she has been turned into a victim.

bigbuttons your OH definitely had narcissistic personality disorder. I think it's something that develops when an abuser can get away with it for too long and then they start to believe the bullshit they tell themselves. Engel thinks it comes before the abuse - I think it comes as a result of being able to do it. He really did believe he was the centre of the universe as far as I can see.

Anyway bb, your last post made me weep again, it make me feel such relief to know you've been there and you're here now for us. I'll see you all in a week's time. I'm going to play the impartial observer. Just remembered my choice of holidays has always been where other people are around because his behaviour is better. But this time we are self-contained. I half expect him to miss the plane deliberately - that's one of the things he always did - made me late for things, keeps us hanging. Scheister. Now I'm thinking I might just not wake him! 'didn't want to ruin your beauty sleep'! Feeling mischievous now . If I did that though he would just get a really expensive flight and find us and never let me hear the end of it. But it's very tempting.

I am finding it so helpful just to be able to read other people's stories and know that it's not just me that has these things happen to.

humpty you are so right about the things they do and say being so subtle that other people woudln't understand or where thinking you were oversensitive, but we aren't; there is a differnece isn't therr between someone making the odd remark which is insensitive and then they are sorry because they didn't mean it that way (which we can all do), and deliberately eroding someones self confidence through a steady long term trickle of remarks. Like being buried in a pile of sand; you don't notice at first because it's just a tiny trickle of tiny uncomfortable grains, but eventually, you are stuck in it.

bigbuttons, that's horrible about him counting out his 'worth' per hour. My H often talks about what an important job he has, as a reason to work lots of evenings, and to have his laptop password protected; crazy thing is I earn as much as him, and my job inviolves even more confidentiality, but it's only the work files that are locked / inaccessible! And somehow, i still have to do most of everything.....

Barbit thats a good point about H's chosing us because we are strong; I think H chose me because I was a 'trophy' (back then I was very slim and I suppose pretty!), and earned a good salary (spent all my savings and most of the salary supprting him!) and had done very well at college (got a first, was due to start a professional post grad) Don't understand why, after marriage, all of that stopped being a good thing and became a threat?
I was also quite vulnerable in that my mum was a bit erratic in behaviour; she was an adult survivor of childhood sexual abuse who had not been believed, and sometimes she could get very angry, and whatever I didn't wasn't the right thing. Most times though, she was lovely, very gentle and shy, but maybe I had a more tolerant view of what was appropriate in a loveing relationship...I don't know.

Sorry if the above doesn't make sense. Am a bit stressed; H just told me that a colleague has made an accusation of bullying against him. H is outraged that anyone could consider him a bully. Sickening thing is that most of his other colleagues (who don't work as closely with him as the victim) have already apparently got in touch, equally outraged at how such a lovely man could possible be accused of such a thing. Looks like the accusation won't stick.

sorry...whatever I did, wasn't the right thing...

I'm also finding these stories helpful, though I am horrified at the same time at what you have all been through. Its hard reading for me because I am feeling very low and depressed at the moment. My resolve to stay away from H is still very strong, but I feel so lonely and abandoned ( though I know I am not, I kicked him out) I guess I just feel so sad that my dream of a happy family has been shattered.

BTW, I am another one with a troubled mother, she is an alcoholic. She had a lot to do with me deciding to emigrate to another country 10 years ago. We are still in touch constantly via skype but out relationship only works if I am living zillions of miles away and even then it gets fraught easily. I am just starting to suspect that she has a lot more to do with my low self esteem than I ever realised. Despite the low self esteem though, I would also put myself in the ?strong woman? category, I have always been a high achiever at work, popular, slim, ?pretty? (I?m also using the modesty quotations ), very intelligent. I suppose this is another reason why I thought that something like this could never happen to me and never had my guard up for this type of thing.

snaildoodle - my OH also was brought up a couple of times at work because he'd made a woman cry. Interesting that it's not just us who ends up the victim. His manner has changed since then (to his colleagues).

nicecup - try and surround yourself with people. Abandonment may be something coming back from childhood - you will be particularly sensitive to it I guess. Maybe you will need to come home and face the music some time.

Big hugs x