Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships

[ViVee]

I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread, a place to vent, offer support, advice.

I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship but I'm trying to find the tools to fight back - I've recently started counselling & the Lundy Bancroft book (Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry and Controlling Men) (recommended by mumsnetters) has become my bible.

Anyone else feel the same?

Place marking. This thread is a good idea

Hello zanywany and bigbuttons sorry you find yourself here, but welcome.

wizbit if only they knew indeed! - though years ago I probably said that myself. Why arent all young girls made to read Lundy at school?

Annie @ the girls. Jesus.

breakfree good for you for seeing whats going on and still keeping a clear head. Yes its your house and you should stay in it. Keep strong. Its by wearing you down that they win. Have you tried just tuning out when he is speaking? Just thinking about something or doing something so that you actually dont hear half of what he says? I find it helps, I dont actually need to pay attention to the details because the gist is always the same (its your fault blah blah blah)

I'd just like to have a bit of a moan, (recap: its 12 days since I asked H to leave the house)

DS is 3 years old in a couple of weeks and we had a big birthday party planned. Half the guests are H's family and half are neighbours and school mates. I live abroad so have no English family here. H has emailed me to say that none of his family will come, nor him. I should be relieved but having talked about it with my counsellor she made me see that the best thing for DS would be if we all smiled and got along, and when I asked why we shouldnt have two seperate parties she said "absolutely not" because it will send DS the wrong message (divided families, different rules etc). So anyway, yesterday H's mum called me and admitted that they are having their own party. With such a large chunk of the guests and presents its actually going to be bigger than the one I had planned, and will include the mickey mouse cake that MIL was going to provide. Just skyped my mum who was really unsympathetic saying that I should be grateful to have a day to myself while DS is off with H, and that kids in divorces need spoiling more (!) Am i being selfish to be upset that our party is being boycotted and "ruined"? Should I just be happy for DS that he will get two parties? Feeling confused and picked on by the whole of H's family, that what they are doing is a big public snub and DS is forced to watch and learn that anything mummy does isnt to be respected. Should I just toughen up, put that out of my mind and act, as if it doesnt bother me? Part of me wants to send an email telling them all what I think of what they are doing, but if I do that I will get drawn into a whole long conversation that so far I have avoided.... advice please!

writing all that has just made me realise how upset I am about it I have just posted it as a sepearate thread too to get as much feedback as poss.

I'd like to watch this too.. trying to sort this out in my brain. Finding it very difficult to explain to people that haven't read the Lundy book.. because so many things are tiny but done over and over again and then twisted when he explains it. It's so hard to put my finger on exactly what's wrong, I do sometimes feel crazy or like I'm somehow involved in making it happen.

But then - "It is not kind to harang your spouse through the night, to push her till she is sobbing and desperate to get away, to blame her for everything in your life that goes badly." Ditto, my friend, ditto.

I'll pop back later, fab idea! I've been camping on a number of threads to help clear up any issues...

TTFN

butterflybee I feel exactly the same about explaining things, have only managed to talk to my counsellor and one close friend, both times took a long time and I did get the support I needed, but I have not had the courage to with other people. When my lawyer asked me why I wanted out of the marriage it was so hard to explain, and I could see in his eyes that he ended up concluding that things cant be that bad and we would probably get back together!

I know what you mean too about sometimes feeling crazy, but dont. You have to keep reminding yourself that it is just a tactic (often successful!) that abusers use. YOU ARE NOT CRAZY. (and even if you were, you would deserve loving care not abuse!!!) xxx

Nicecupatea, I think thats really disgustingly petty what your exH and his family are doing and you've every right to be upset but then again, thats what they want. Its purely a game to hurt you isn't it. I wouldn't email them or bat an eyelid at it and I would carry on and have the two parties. Your DS is young and won't remember or be able to understand why he is having too seperate parties so I think you should go ahead with the one you have planned and enjoy YOUR day with YOUR Ds and never mind about cakes and presents and all that palaver that they are using to try to be "the best"
When its over you will be glad you didn't pick at the scab that is H and his family, just ignore and keep your head high.

Here at home P is back to playing the wonderman again after this morning.

Thanks breakfree You are right, getting drawn into an argument over it is not going to help at all, and hopefully DS wont see it as the snub I do. I think I just wanted someone to sympathise too - I was a bit hurt by it and my mums reaction didnt help.

Sorry you have got the wonderman/abuser jekly and hyde thing to deal with. It took me a long time to realise but my H's "wonderman" moments werent even that nice. Just neutral/non abusive which I now realise ISNT the same as nice.

Hi everyone.

Barbie I wasn't sure what you meant at first about our relationship being unbearable for both of us; but reading through a later post you made, I think I understand and some of it resonates.
I think H is feeling very insecure at the moment because I have just gone back to work, in a job I love and am getting great feedback, I've made some new friends, and am generally feeling great, very happy. Looking back at what happened over the weekend; he came home, I had cleaned the house, cooked his favourite meal, bought him a newspaper, listened to him tell me all his news...then the kids interrupted, and I suppose in his mind, it was back to the reality that he doesn't and can't have my undivided devoted attention as soon as he wants it (though even that wouldn't be enough, because it only takes me to ask the wrong question / not ask the right one and he gets annoyed).

So I suppose even though i don't understand it, H probably does feel at times that the reality of that is unbearable; added to the fact that I clearly don't have the same respect for him that I once did, and probably in the back of his mind he knows that is his fault (the turning point for me was finding out 18 months ago that he had been having an affair; he had told me this woman was having a hard time and I'd been looking after her children to give her a break...which is when they'd been meeting up. Also found out he had sold some of my possessions on ebay without me knowing, and spent the money on her) I have told him I have forgiven him but that we need to work at rebuilding trust, but he feels I should just trust, automatically, and put him back on a pedestal. Problem is that I can now look back and see that he has always been subtley abusive, controlling, and disregarding of my belongings, money and self worth, so it's not as though the A was an isolated incident, it's just that it was a particularly dramatic one!

"It is not kind to harang your spouse through the night, to push her till she is sobbing and desperate to get away, to blame her for everything in your life that goes badly''

Totally agree with the above; and it's exactly what H does.

Nicecupatea, I think breakfree is wise. Hope you have a really good day with ds, am sure he will love having his school friends and neighbours at his party with you, because thats a bit different and special isn't it.
nicecupatea, you make a good point about the nice moments not actually being that nice. Even my H's nice moments are all about what he thinks being nice is....which, yes, is other peoples neutral!

H is currently in Nice phase, too; he has had a good day at work. He has told me about it; hasn't asked how my day was, stayed in his study reading while I made tea / did homework / ironed / tidied, is now asleep on the sofa and to me this is nice because it's calm.

I really wish I'd read the Lundy Bancroft book when I was in my teens.

Oh, and hi, zanywany, bigbuttons, and herHizzyness.

Thank you everyone for the welcome, it means a lot.
Perhaps I should give a hopefully brief intro on my situation: I've been with P for about 15 years. We have 6 children aged 12 to 4, 3 of each. From Lundy's book I would say that P is a 'water torturer' and it wasn't until I read the book about a year ago that I realised I really was being abused. I went from an EA mother to him.

The things he used to say and do me really upset me. The physical violence was rare but the emotional undermining was crucifying. I believed every word he said simply because he told me he was not a liar. I spent years trying to fix myself. I bought book upon book.

He never does any of the 'sorry' stuff, has never shown remorse for any violent acts whether emotional or physical. He has justified them all saying he was merely matching my behaviour. So we don't have any of the lovey dovey contrasts, he just carries on as if nothing has happened.

However we are in the process of trying to sell the house. He has agreed to sell and buy me and the dc's a place.

However much I want this to happen and I do I am really really scared. I'm not sure what I'm scared of but I think I am scared of NOT being with him.

It will break my heart to leave this house. It is a beautiful Georgian rectory in a beautiful village but I could not maintain it on my own. But I have lived here 11 years and put so much of myself into the house and garden and 2 of my children were born here. That is the thing tht upsets me the most.
All the time I was struggling on it was because I felt there was hope, but now there is none.
I am mourning the relationship I never had and waited and suffered for all these years with him.

I long to know what it feels like to have someone love me and want me again. But I think with 6 kids that will probably not happen and I am getting a bit over the hill.

I have lost all confidence in my looks. I can't even look at myself in the mirror, all I see is a sad, tired old face.

I think this thread is great.I'm sorry I haven't replied to individual posts. I find it all so overwhelming but it's such a 'comfort' to me to read that I am not alone. I hope we can all take great comfort in one another and buoy each other up when times get particularly sticky xx

Ladies can I just say something to those of you who are still in abusive relationships...
I discussed this with my domestic abuse counsellor (who I am seeing for free via local womens aid)... she says that anybody who is currenlty in an abusive relationship and tries to change things is dramatically increasing their risk... risk of the abuse getting worse/being assaulted etc etc.
If you read here...
www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html

The advice given here is more similar to what would be given by womens aid etc... It says that if you want to disengage, you should try to be bland and grey and boring... Meanwhile you are formulating a plan for escape and then when you do leave, you do it in a safe planned way and more likely to be sucessful.

Like snaildoodle says her H seems to resent her recent sucess at work, with friends etc. He thinks his control over her is threatened and he will want to regain that control... and the more desparate he gets to retain that control the more abusive he will be.

I left my exH last november with the help of womens aid but he persuaded me to go back, saying he would change etc etc... I went back and over the next 3 weeks things started off better and then deteriorated v v v quickly. He hid all our documents so I couldn't take them with me if I wanted to go again, he never let me have all 3 kids together etc and then I had made my decision to go and was making a plan when he slapped my dd age 5 round the face and called her a "stupid fucking bitch" and then picked up my ds1 (age4) and shook him for a minor argument with his sister... I left then with nothing and never went back.
My exH was extremely emotionally abusive but was not violent... he only actally hit me twice over the course of an 8 year marriage... What I am trying to say is that if you want to leave, the safest way would be to go to womens aid and ask for help and advice, and then stay calm and don't engage (like barbie is saying) while you find a safe way to go. I think that there is no time for analysing your part in the relationship, you can do it afterwards and I certainly would not recommend sitting down with H and discussing his behaviour because being abusive seems to be very resisitant to change and also you are just giving him ammunition to use against you... Trust me I have been there and it all gets twisted and thrown back at you... "I'm not abusive, you make me behave like this because of the way you treat me!" etc.

Life is so much better on the other side and there is lots of support out there, I have started the freedom programme which is brilliant for analysing your relationship and the abuser, it runs for 10 weeks so loads of time for real reflection/discussion etc but if you're still in the relationship, you need to stay safe and minimise any further damage while figuring out a way to get out.

bigbuttons you sound like a lovely person and anybody else would be lucky to have you...
Once you get away from your H you will start to change from the person you are now to the person you really are inside... I think it is in Lundy Bancroft where he says that the victim of abuse only changes themselves to deal with their situation, kind of a defence mechanism and even if you feel liek you are going mad and a horrible person, once you remove the abuse the defenses will left and you will still be the good person underneath.
It feels like a huge weight is lifted off your shoulders once you get out... honestly you won't believe it. I only have 3 kids not 6 but people say to me that it must be hard having 3 kids, but honestly it feels almost easy now because I don't have my head filled with all that abusive crap and I'm not treading on eggshells anymore.
I feel liberated and although the daily grind continues, my own mind is free to be filled with my own thoughts rather than wondering what the next tantrum from exH is going to be about and how to pre-empt the situation and pour oil on troubled waters.
Stay strong for yourself and your kids, when the day comes that you are free it will all be worth it

humpty you are so wise. Thank you.
Beverly Engel also says that about your behaviour being a defence mechanism (in the same way his is also, but defence against his 'original abuser').

It is good to hear that this learned behaviour lifts. For me, who has been in a relationship for 25 years, well I don't know who I was before really.

What you say about safety is important too. I've done a lot of work on DV in a child protection capacity and the fact is that, those 3 women murdered every week at the hands of their partner are usually murdered when they decide to leave. This is why I say that snaildoodle's situation sounded scary - he was shaking - please be careful, his reactions are becoming physical.

But I don't know a lot about emotional abuse - we didn't learn about that - the closest would be psychological abuse but that was always described as straight up namecalling and belittling, obvious things. What I'm interested in is whether they men switch from EA to physical violence - or go from EA to becoming really dangerous. So far I have seen it as separate but humpty's making me think otherwise.

Bigbuttons - I can understand the thing about not wanting to leave the home. I'm in the same position. I wouldn't want to have to do that but we are not married so there is no option (I think). Losing a long term partner and father of your children is bad enough (even though we never really 'found' him), losing your home as well really doesn't help. I hope this thread will give us strength and knowledge so that we can see past all this.

But bb - if he's been violent before you are right to be scared. Tread very carefully and get professional advice from Womens Aid. You are vulnerable, you have six children, you were abused by your mother. Please be careful. Have you looked at the WA website? There is advice on there.

Also, be careful about what he can see or read on here, check your web history etc etc. Home is home, home is not a house - you can make a home elsewhere if needs be - and it will be a happy one next time.

barbie I'm not wise !!! Just been there and lived it for 8 years and then got out. I hope I don't come across as too preachy, but it's so important for people to stay safe.
Here is a checklist to read thru to see some of the sides of domestic abuse... it's a huge thing with many different faces, some people may experience only 1 aspect and others several or many...
www.reducingtherisk.org.uk/wps/wcm/connect/occ/ReducingTheRisk/Home/RTH+-+am+i+a+victim
I saw abuse being described as a recipe, there are a number of basic elements which are present but the quantities of each varies, like Lundy Bancroft names the different personas of an abuser, the freedom programme does a similar thing but with different names. Take a look here for the basics

www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/docs/mrgoodbad-english.pdf

I like this approach in the freedom programme because it also shows you the other side, the positive side, who they call "the Friend".

Barbie you were wondering about an abuser switching from emotional to physical abuse and how that works...
Lets use my exH as an example... In my relationship with him he focussed on emotional abuse, he was physically threatening, towering over me, getting right in my fact etc, but only actually assaulted me a few times and each time it was only 1 well aimed punch. However, with his ex wife he was extremely physically violent, he beat her with his fists, he beat her with sticks, he threw furniture at her.
With another ex partner, my ExH (sorry this is getting a bit confusing) was very sexual. He was forceful and the woman was degraded and felt that most sexual contact was rape (ie it was not consensual sex).
I know this because I made it my business to get to know these women and find out what they went thru. In the beginning it was because I was questioning my own sanity, I honestly thought that I had imagined it because it seemed surreal and he suceeded in making me think that i was going mad. I now see that for the 3 of us, we have to makings of a close friendship based on horrible experiences but that we are sharing and all healing from.
What I'm trying to say is that yes, one person can be violent in some situations and not in others. I beleive that an abuser is only as violent or nasty as they need to be to keep their control. If you (the victim) can be kept in line with words and threats, then there won't be any need for violence necessarily, but that doesn't mean that he can't become violent if he chooses to or decides he needs to.

I never realised that an abuser despite appearing to be angry is not actually angry and now looking back I can see examples in my own relationship where I thought he was seriously angry, but actually he wasn't, he only worked himself up enough to justify the abuse in his own mind, so he could say that it was my fault he was nasty cos I wound him up.

Sorry, again another mammoth post... I only know bits and peices of information taht I have learnt from doing loads of research since I left... I'm one of those people who likes to understand what's going on before I can move on.
But I would say over and over again, that it would be so helpful to anyone who is or has been in an abusive relationship to contact womens aid or your local domestic abuse organisation...

Here is the link to womens aid website, and the directory of local services
www.womensaid.org.uk/landing_page.asp?section=000100010024&sectionTitle=Find+a+local+service

You won't be judged just supported!

Humpty, awesome posts as ever! Glad you think the Freedom Programme is good, I've found out a course that starts in September and am planning to attend.

Gah, I'll probably try and talk myself out of it, the whole everyone ELSE is worse than me, they deserve it more. The minimisation, it wasn't that bad surely...

But it was, wasn't it?

I'll not prattle on myself tonight, cos tbh, I've bored myself with myself iykwim!

Great thread with some lovely strong women, and some great big hearts too!

Barbie you have sold me on the Beverly Engel book, just ordered it from Amazon....

Hissy Can you not sign up for the course now, even though it doesnt start for ages? Failing that we can always help remind you of what you said if you start getting cold feet come September time

I asked them to send me the form, they will do so as soon as they have the dates/times. Then I get sent Living with the Dominator to read in advance of going to the course. I'll go, I promise I'll go. I need RL talking help in a safe space, where they can handle it and have heard it all before. My support network has no experience of this at all.

What was the title of the Beverly Engel book btw?

Hi HH - it's called 'The Emotionally Abusive Relationship'. I still just peep at it really, too scared to read it all. I haven't read Lundy Bancroft but I'm already terrified. I will get it though.

The Freedom Programme sounds great. About time something like that appeared - it's crazy that women should be expected to work this through by themselves.

Humpty - what can I say - I've got a very clear picture of how you've learned from experience, not from books. You are wise - that's what wise people do isn't it? Learning something from every experience.

I'm very nervous about all this now though. I'm starting to see it for what it really is. Eurgh.

Can't recommend Saint Lundy too highly. I got it more out of curiosity because it was mentioned so often on here, as it was too late to be of any practical help to me - though it would have been good to read it while I was still under the same roof as XH. Regard it as a piece of research rather than self-help, and don't be afraid of it - it's only a book!

The trouble is, with any book, you have to approach it in the right frame of mind. However much the author tries to tell you that any abuse is too much, some will say to themselves "this isn't anything to do with me, my DH never knocks me about", if that's the mindset they're in at the time. You have to have had a bit of an eye open at least before reading it to get something out of it for yourself - though it is still useful in that it explains more about how abuse works and why people put up with it.

... I meant to add, rather than it necessarily being about you.

Hello people. I can commiserate and totally relate to all you are saying.

I am 52 yr and have been in 2 emotionally and physically abusive relationships.
I went through Hell and back several times and I have 3 children with 2 different fathers.

My oldest 2 are grown up and I still feel guilty what I put them through.
I am there for them now and try so hard to make up for the crap they suffered as a result .
My youngest is only 10 yrs and I left his Dad because he was so manipulative, fowl tempered, and very self centred; and in the last 3 yrs became aggressive towards me.
I now have the sweetest man who is kind caring, loving , and not selfish, and he is not abusive or controlling.

I can now be ME and make choices in our relationship.
All I can say is you guys who are in the midst of abusive stuff to see the light, read up as much as you can about this kind of behaviour and if need be get the hell out.
You dont deserve it and neither do your kids.
Stay strong !
You have a right to be heard
You have a right to make choices
You have a right to YOUR opinion
You have a right to be treated with respect
You have a right to a life without physical, emotional or mental abuse.
You have a right to your needs being met.

barbie, he he he, I too was scared of the Lundy book - heaven knows what I thought it would say!

It IS good, it shows you that you are not alone, and shows you that actually nothing of this is your fault! This is a true gift when you consider how we have been blamed all these years. It's truly liberating. It also enables you, somehow, to see through the techniques and shows you how likely he will be to change, so you can decide if it's worth the herculean effort or not.

Above all, ladies who are still 'in this', know that this is none of your doing, that he chose - for whatever reason - to treat you this way. We none of us deserve any of it.

Lundy I find doesn't focus on those men that batter too much, sure it's mentioned, but there is more talk about the manipulation and insidious techniques employed by the abuser.

As in affair situations, the men operate to a script, it's almost predictable.

Never forget that a bruise heals all by itself, mental wounds take a lot more conscious work by the victim to get anywhere near resetting to normal. The longer it goes on, 'normal' gets harder to remember.