Cannot decide if we want our son to attend a private school or not

[Londonhoneycake]

I am 43 and attended a state school, although it was in a fairly middle-class, well-off area. My husband is 47 and went to a private school. We have two boys, aged 9 and 7, and we have started looking ahead at secondary schools for our eldest. We’ve attended open days and open mornings and met with heads of schools, but we’re still unsure whether to send him to a state school or go down the private route.

We aren’t wealthy. We could afford private school fees, but only just, and because of that my husband’s parents have offered to help with the costs. I’m not sure how I feel about that, whereas my husband is very much in favour of it.

I’d really like to hear from parents who weren’t completely sure either. We have good state schools nearby, some within walking distance, and I feel our children would benefit from attending a “normal” local school. My husband strongly wants them to go to a private school, but I’m conflicted because I disapprove of a system that reinforces inequality and gives children advantages purely based on their parents’ or guardians’ wealth.

I want our children to be educated alongside the majority. I also work closely with an education think tank, much of which focuses on strengthening state education, so it would feel quite hypocritical to send my children to private school given the values that underpin my work.

The idea that well off state school students attending grammar or other high achieving state schools for gcses or a levels are likely to achieve contextual offers is frankly a myth. If there are other factors at play (like they are care experienced, a refugee or eligible for FSM) then it is more likely.

Parents moving their child to a high achieving state 6th form.in search of a contextual offer are likely misguided. There may be mant other valid reasons to do so though.

I heard this too but then I found out the "top universities" actually look at the full secondary education not just a-levels as so many private school parents did move their children for sixth form.

Different universities have different policies. I know students who have got contextual offers from Warwick and Bristol based on going to state sixth forms, after being in private school for years 7-11. No other contextual eligibility criteria was needed and their websites state that you need to meet one criteria only. There are other universities which require 2 or more criteria, e.g. Manchester, Imperial.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/entry-requirements-qualifications/contextual-offers/

https://warwick.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/apply/contextual-offers/

Universities can create their own criteria. Bristol is not attendance at any state school/college it is a school/college on their list. It is a bit of an outlier and has come under criticism.

Warwick is one of the following:

For the 2025/26 admissions cycle, applicants from UK state schools who are eligible for Home fees and meet one of the following contextual ‘flags’ will be considered for a Contextual offer:

• 'Individual Free School Meals flag': The applicant was eligible for UK government-funded Free School Meals at some point during the past eight years.*
• 'Neighbourhood flag': The applicant lives in an area which has a high level of deprivation (Index of Multiple Deprivation [IMD], 0-20%).
• 'School flag': The applicant completed their studies at schools/colleges where performance was below average and eligibility for Free School Meals was higher than average.

I dont doubt it is possible for some former private school students to receive a contextual offer (from some HE institutions) by moving to a lower performing sixth form or if they live in a high deprivation postcode. However, they would need to choose a lower performing sixth form to do this or meet other criteria. However, the idea that most students in high performing state sixth forms receive contextual offers is a myth.

My child doesnt attend private school, but was interested to research. They attend a high school on the 'Bristol list'. If they stayed at that school for sixth form provision they presumably would get a contextual.offer. However, I dont think they would meet the criteria elsewhere I'd have to investigate further. When deciding on sixth form provision I dont think the possibility of a contextual offer from (one? a handful?) of institutions would be a key factor in my child's decision. There is more specialised/higher performing sixth form provision in the area. I am sure private school students move to the higher performing sixth forms. Moving to my child's school for sixth form seems a less likely choice. However, they could.

If increasing the chance of a contextual offer is a key factor in moving from private to state at sixth form, I would be looking at the criteria at target HE institions very carefully. I am not aware of any where it is as simple as attend any state school/college. There are lots of reasons why it might be a great choice to move to state provision, but i'd be careful (and get fully informed) about how it would impact the likelihood of a contextual offer.
Ps - apologies fir my typos. Just got up.

I think it's a bit misguided to try to game the system by moving from private to state at sixth form thinking university entry will become 'easier' if you're coming from a state school. There are so many different factors to university offers and university admissions work in different ways.

HOWEVER, coming from a state school, even just for sixth form, can work to an applicant's advantage. Not sure if it's still the case, but until very recently students at a highly regarded academic state sixth form in London did qualify for contextual offers from a few RG unis. This was despite the vast majority of the cohort coming from an affluent demographic.

Equally with Oxbridge - they often make higher grade offers to students coming from private schools as they're seen as having an advantage (fair enough). Oxford and Cambridge are also probably the only unis that look closely at where an applicant did GCSES before A-levels (to those saying that all universities do this, I don't think they bother tbh) - but do remember that Oxbridge are generally keen on widening participation. So if you have two identical applicants - one who is coming from private school, one who is coming from a state sixth form (after a private school) - they are probably more likely to offer to the sixth form state applicant, it will still allow the admissions team to tick that box.

So arguably, moving to a state school for sixth form can have an advantage when it comes to uni entry.

Our Dd went to a private school at 11 (boarding available). It wasn’t a difficult choice as my ex was in the military and there was a distinct possibility of us being posted.The school we chose wasn’t high pressure. But for all round development and finding their passion in life.

She benefitted from all the usual advantages of smaller classrooms and excellent pastoral care. She got very good GCSE’s.

However, she then when to a large state sixth form college only (around 2,000 pupils), so I guess she saw the full majority then. Her grades did drop, but not enough to stop her going on to her chosen uni.

She’s highly ambitious and motivated after a few rocky years as a teenager.

Id suggest you go to as many open days (state and private), you may just find one of them absolutely blows you away.

There is a lot of 'anecdata' presented. Is the highly rated academic state sixth form in London (mentioned above) on the Bristol list? Does it meet the Warwick school criteria (high FSM and below average performance). It might, I dont dispute the possibility. However, i think criteria have been made more transparent and strict recently than they may have been previously. It is not 'any state provision'.
Im also not sure it is an 'advantage' to move deliberately to lower performing sixth form provision. Is it really an advantage to move to my child's state school (small sixth form with teachers responsibilities wide and significant pastoral challenges in the lower school) rather than the highly rated specialist state sixth form college in a neighbouring area. There staff only teach level 3 courses with a less challenging cohort. You gain a chance of a contextual offer at a small number of HE institions at the school, but the a level provision may be less strong.

Oxford contextual info:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/decisions/contextual-data
Cambridge contextual info:
https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/after/contextual-data

Both look at a wide range of data both relating to school/college performance and wider demographic factors. It is not about blindly favouring all state applicants or universally offering state applicants lower offers.

I find threads like this quite grubby. Rooting around trying to play the system which has been set up to try to level the playing field in an attempt to push your child down one narrow path of “success”. Ewww.

FWIW none of the 4 decent state schools in our city get any contextual offers. The fifth is in a deprived area with a good SN provision. Any child getting to Oxbridge from there deserves all the help they can get. No private school parent would touch it with a barge pole.

I would agree your biggest issue is the financial aspect and it sounds to me that it wouldn’t be the best financial decision for you, and in-laws suddenly being unable to continue paying is a risk.

My thoughts are that you will get no medals for having ‘morals’ about equality etc and we should do whatever we need to for our kids if we are in a position to do so.

I went to private secondary school due to my state catchment school being in special measurements, mostly from poor/criminal behaviour, and i don’t think my parents should be ashamed for making that decision for one second.

If we had the money, we would send our kids to private in a second. Luckily so far, we seem to be an area with decent state schools.

As a Pp said, it honestly depends what options you have in your area.

With private i benefited from smaller classes, better behaviour from pupils. I will say a disadvantage is that we all lived in different areas so i didn’t have any local friends and was quite lonely as a teenager (as my parents split and my brother lived with my dad)

Do you also help yourself to donations from the food bank?

If your children will get the money anyway and your local state schools are good, I would be putting them in state schools personally. Like you I am uncomfortable with the ethics of private schooling system and disproportionate representation, you sound invested in your children so there is no reason your children can’t succeed from mainstream school. You can afford to get them access to good tutoring & sports/extra curriculars. The extra money they’d inherit would make a huge difference on their ability to buy a house/travel etc.

There are some sought-after state schools on the Bristol aspiring schools list. E.g. Hasmonean High School for Girls (25 on The Times top state secondary schools in London), Queens Park Community School (83), La Sainte Union (88), Guildford County School (81 for SE region), Lord William's School (102) are all on the Bristol list. Parliament Hill is also on the Bristol list although not the Times but is highly regarded (and attended by dc of well-known wealthy public figures).

https://www.thetimes.com/best-schools-league-table

Most parents transferring from private to state would also be using tutors as well and not just relying on the teaching in the school.

As I noted above Bristol is a bit of an outlier. Maybe it is there somewhere, but i am not sure what the criteria is for making the list.

Bristol say ...
We consider a school or college to be aspiring if it has low average attainment and progression to higher education statistics.

100% mine will go private if we can afford it. It's a better education with more opportunities and less disruption. The confidence and additional skills they learn will open doors. Don't harm your children by putting your left wing ideals ahead of their prospects.

It depends on the private school and on your boys. Dd wasn’t academic but went private, in-laws paid but was average independent girls school so she could have gone anywhere. Dh went to top London school and it was one of the factors in setting him up for life.

You don't have to use your own kids in an experiment with strengthening the State School system.
If you like the private school - go with it.

You could have your sons sit for scholarships and start tham a year or two later if it would make a difference financially.

Dulwich college is an excellent school - and if your son passes through exams to get in, I think it'd be selfish to not sent him there because of your morals alone.

Plenty of people working in state send their kids to private, if they can afford it.

As to grandparents paying for your younger - what ties do you think they'll have? And how would they be using this position of power over you?

And again - this "issue" is all you. It has nothing to do with your child's education. And it is unfair to be guided by your fear of needing to be nice and "thankful" to the grandparents of your children.

Let's say your son gets in and loves the school - with the beautiful grounds, sports opportunities, and excellent facilities it's hard not to. He also knows his daddy went there, and his cousin as well. And then imagine you need to explain to him that he can't go - "because mommy need to be thankful to grandparent, and does not want to". Seriously? Or - because it'll "make mommy look bad in front of her colleagues".
Which part is it about education for your child, prioritising what he needs/wants/etc? And which part is about you?

For the grandparents - paying tuition is simply passing on inheritance earlier and without taxes. And seeing the benefits - which is nice. I'd love to be able to do it for my grandkids one day - if I have gk and can afford it that is.

I was a state infant teacher for over 40 years and all of my children ( and me) went to absolutely excellent state schools from 4-18 . They had a brilliant schooling, developed lasting hobbies, made lifelong friends, got good exam results and went to university.
However
Im now volunteering once a week at the same infant school that my children went to ( and where I taught for 12 years in the 80’s/90’s.
Im horrified by what is going on and would not be sending my children there - and it’s still one of the “ best” schools in our town and is often oversubscribed. I’m going to complete this school year of volunteering then leave.
My eldest grandson is at the local secondary ( where my children and stepchildren went in the 90’s/00’s ) The stories he tells me about the behaviour, drugs stuff etc would also make me change my lifelong support of the state system.

What I would say about the private system is that there are so many extras required and/or expected.
So if you are on a fairly tight budget don’t forget to allow for these.

Apologies - feel i am derailing the thread a bit now. I just wanted to flag that as far as i am aware there are no universities that offer contexrual offers to all state school students. A few give contextual offers to students from schools that meet specific criteria. Bristol seems a bit of an outlier with a list that some posters suggest doesnt meet their criteria (of low average attainment & low HE progression). I dont live in/near London so cant comment on the specific schools. It does seem odd if they are including high attaining provision on the list given the criteria outlined. However, Bristol is an outlier. The vast majority of universities have more stringent criteria for contextual offers. The idea state school = contextual offer is not correct.
I'm the last person positioned to offer the @Londonhoneycake advice, but as i have posted multiple times on the thread will address the actual question.
Only you can decide if choosing private school fits with your values. No one can decide this for you. If you dont think private school is consistent with your values dont choose it. It sounds like you have reasonable state options. You are unlikely to find support for a values based state school choice on a forum aimed at private school users. I attended a very 'average' state school so does my DD. We are fine. Private school may offer advantages, but state school can work out fine. Letting values influence your choice isnt wrong. It doesnt mean you DC will have a poor educational experience.
However if you are comfortable with a private option, then look at the pragmatics (cost, journey, educational offer, impact on family relationships etc.). From what you have said I would be worried about the financial and family dynamics impact even if your choice isnt influenced by values.

Something else to remember is that friends may not be local if attending a private school which means parent taxi service for meet ups etc