Cannot decide if we want our son to attend a private school or not

[Londonhoneycake]

I am 43 and attended a state school, although it was in a fairly middle-class, well-off area. My husband is 47 and went to a private school. We have two boys, aged 9 and 7, and we have started looking ahead at secondary schools for our eldest. We’ve attended open days and open mornings and met with heads of schools, but we’re still unsure whether to send him to a state school or go down the private route.

We aren’t wealthy. We could afford private school fees, but only just, and because of that my husband’s parents have offered to help with the costs. I’m not sure how I feel about that, whereas my husband is very much in favour of it.

I’d really like to hear from parents who weren’t completely sure either. We have good state schools nearby, some within walking distance, and I feel our children would benefit from attending a “normal” local school. My husband strongly wants them to go to a private school, but I’m conflicted because I disapprove of a system that reinforces inequality and gives children advantages purely based on their parents’ or guardians’ wealth.

I want our children to be educated alongside the majority. I also work closely with an education think tank, much of which focuses on strengthening state education, so it would feel quite hypocritical to send my children to private school given the values that underpin my work.

It depends how good the state schools are tbh. What are you basing that opinion on? Schools can be good on paper but stil have a lot of problems. So can private schools, of course. I've taught in a couple of state schools which were outstanding according to Ofsted but in reality were anything but. I've also taught in a private school I'd have loved to send my children to, and one which I wouldn't have sent them to for free.

Good grief! I was with you until you mentioned DC 🫣 I know they’ve done a lot to ‘clean it up’ in recent years but the bullying and misogyny is hard to shake. Plus having a name like that on his CV forever.
I know a lot of people connected with the School and someone who went there.
On the upside it is easier to get into than the other Dulwich privates.

It totally does.

At our local state the class sizes can be about the same especially in the older years. But the difference is often that SEN kids have a dedicated unit so aren’t always fully in with the other kids who often have learning difficulties.

Again attitude to hard work and better learning environment- reports say our state is better and both are considered ‘outstanding’. Grades are better at our local state and there is a 3% reduction in grades from the grammar schools in the next county at GCSE. It’s the same for a level with a lot of the grammar kids coming to the local state.

In terms of ‘way more sporting and extra curricular’, again wrong from where I am. The three private schools don’t offer a running track, fully equipped gym, fitness center, Astro pitch, fully equipped theatre, full basketball/tennis/netball areas etc. Our local does and the local teams play together and the private schools because they have a lot less kids can’t always find enough players for a team and don’t often win. One of the private schools is campused based so different sites for boys junior, girls junior, senior girls, senior boys and while large overall two of the sites (seniors) don’t have fields big enough for a football pitch and they have to run diagonally to hit 100m. The sports definitely aren’t better. Oh and they have to do sports on a Saturday morning which sounds good but a kid we know who was a talented footballer could never play on a Saturday morning as he had to do school sports.

I appreciate this isn’t the same for everyone and having been to both my opinion is it depends on the schools. No one can answer if state or private is better without knowing exactly the schools you are thinking about.

DC is a good school for alpha boys but can be more difficult for quieter or more quirky boys in my opinion. I’d check the level of scholarship if you need it. There are lots of extra expenses on top and you’d need to think about how your children would fit in with a much wealthier (on the whole) cohort. Academic outcomes are the same as the grammars (or the top grammars perform better in some cases). Have you explored the grammar schools? You can buy in an awful lot of extra curricular opportunities for the DC fees.

I would also be wary of a private all-boys school based on the experiences and views of my Dc and their relatives - from private and state ed.

(some) DC boys call state school kids 'peasants' on public transport ...and when playing in a charity concert at DC my Dc's expensive equipment was nicked. My boys were shocked at the behaviour and attitudes to girls amongst the boys from private all-boys schools who moved to their school for 6th form.

But clearly NABALT and family influence and extra-curricular contact can play their part. but I'd be alert.

If your boys are academic and you want a school on that area I would look at Alleyns .

I'd say it depends on the child. What are your boys like? I went to a northern state comp, and DH to a minor public school, and our DSs went private.

For DS1 he was bright and coasting/ bored in state primary. He was acting as a TA and hearing other classmates read! We chose private it as we knew it would stretch and stimulate him (it did...)
For DS2, he was summer born, immature, anxious (and later diagnosed as neurodiverse). He found being part of a class of 30 mentally exhausting and risked becoming a school refuser. Smaller class sizes helped enormously.

I think both our sons might have been targeted/ bullied in the state sector - for different reasons. Both excelled in private.

I would choose the best school in your area - if that's a private school then send him there. Don't take away the opportunity of a superior education from him just to make a point.

Is it telling that you've posted on the "private school" board and will therefore likely get people who chose private commenting? Are you looking for permission to get over the guilt related to your job?

I'm not criticising, just suggesting you reflect a bit.

I wouldn't choose a private school if it takes him out if his local community and adds in a commute. My DH had that sort of education, so no friends in his village and no time for hobbies etc as he was always on the bus. These external factors are not given enough consideration, but your whole identity is not school based, there's more to life.

I'd also only do it if you can afford it yourselves if something were to happen to the grandparents. They might write such things into a will, but might also have higher care costs or another child needing a lot of help.

You cant afford it.

And all it takes is one argument, one serious illness or god forbid death and the whole plan falls apart.

Its as simple as that.

@VivaVivaa there are no moral arguments against giving your children more than the state mandated minimum. National healthcare and education are safety nets. Not moral imperatives.

@Londonhoneycake best thing we ever did and having a shared purpose really improved our marriage. We were worried too but I said to DW if it's the one thing we focus on doing and everything else comes second we can do it. We've never regretted it and we have x3, yes it means I'm driving a shitty car and our house is small. But an education you can never take away! Be prepared for the negative reaction and judgement from family especially if you're working class or lower middle class. Everyone is so brainwashed that the state must provide. I think it's because it causes them to reflect on their decisions.

We had a similar consideration with our DC and opted to send them to our local state school (which was fine, but not amazing) as we thought it would be much better for them to have a lump sum to enable them to buy a house when that stage came. I otherwise can't see anyway they could otherwise afford it; and I was dubious that private school would add that much to future salaries (looked at from a purely financial basis).

If you/your in-laws could afford to do both, it's clearly a different calculation.

If you do go ahead, I'd want the in-laws to put the ring fence the money (trust?) in advance to avoid the risk of them not being able/willing to continue to finance it, particularly as it sound like you definitely couldn't afford private school for both children.

In terms of some university entry and entry to some professions and the civil service, it’s now a positive disadvantage to be privately educated. I’m not sure that all the suggested ‘contacts’ or nepotism exist now, apart from in a very few cases ( old Etonians etc!) I know that some AI recruitment processes for graduate jobs now automatically exclude the privately educated from the first sweep.

All depends of course on the state provision being good enough for your particular child to achieve the exam results needed for their choice of career.

What you’re really buying at later school ages is a peer group. As others have said, if you have academic aspirations for your child, then you want a school - a peer group (much more important to teens than parents or teachers) that values academic and other achievement and where hard work is a given.

You may find that a good state school with the right cohort will have such a peer group anyway. Any deficiencies in teaching can be addressed through tutors and external music and sport classes can be a good way of escaping from the school environment and making new friends.

@EvelynBeatrice

) I know that some AI recruitment processes for graduate jobs now automatically exclude the privately educated from the first sweep

That’s interesting - could you give some examples of companies or places of employment which do this?
Also, how will A1 know if the applicant is telling the truth?

I don't know about that claim but I have heard of kids going to state college from private school, so by the time they're applying for university they're not penalised in this way. You heard that too?

Have a look at the schools and decide.

We are choosing private as the SEN support is better than our local school.

Lots to think about from the replies here so will try and add to them and not repeat things already said. My DC are at an independent school (always thought they would be state educated but it didn’t work out). Many children’s fees are paid by grandparents- it seems usual amongst many of their peer group. If the grandparents are well off and intend to pass the money on it makes sense to spend it on education which lasts a lifetime. I pay my DC’s fees but would have no issue if GP offered to spend it on this as I have seen how the DC are thriving.

I wouldn’t send a dog to a daycare depending on what was the right daycare for its father.

‘Private school’ or ‘state school’ in London covers such a vast range of options, I certainly wouldn’t wander off to Dulwich College without having a forensic knowledge of the other options. With grandparents involved I’d want cast iron certainty that they could afford the £350k odd for private secondary for EVERY grandchild, which it sounds like they can.

Like many, if I had had the financial option I might well have picked a private school with the specific right profile for ds over a state London selective grammar, hoping for better sport and music (are you in the St Olaves catchment?), though I might have gone for a Kent grammar if it were an option. However, with extremely limited cash (like, household income of £25k), I chose not to pursue big private bursary options, of which there was at least one locally, despite grandparents jumping up and down with cash offers. I didn’t think my parents and in-laws had really taken in the scale of money required over 7 years, the additional pressure of maintaining a bursary offer on ds, or the fact that they had 8 grandchildren between them. We went for a good comprehensive with an STEM focus and an excellent head, knowing that ds had a good peer group around him and a level head. No [big] regrets, he’s a textbook example of the kind of product of comprehensive education that is supposed to happen, though it definitely limited some of his horizons. But it felt then and feels now like a huge decision. What the school looks like in the Old Dulwichian magazine or whatever would send me running in the opposite direction.

by that logic most people can’t afford it or do a lot of things in life.

Not really.

Most people make decisions based on their own income, health, age, employment etc. This would be banking on the next 15 years in someone elses life and finances. There is far more risk.

As I said, all it takes is one falling out and they are having to withdraw the kids from where they are settled. At least in a divorce things like school fees can be added into the financial settlemnt, there is nothing that can prevent a simple "I have changed my mind you will have to pay now".

My son now 23 went to private school from 11 to the end of sixth form and I wouldn’t change it for the world, my parents helped financially as he is their only grandson but we would have sent him regardless, we only have one child so it was tight financially but not dreadful. If you have the chance do it, I don’t think there’s any comparison.

A ton of private school kids have their fees paid by relatives. It’s a risk like other things in life eg your health can change, you husband can leave you, you can lose your job, you never know what’s round the corner. Most things are risky to a degree.

Op said they can afford to send one child, so no idea where the 15 years are from.

This.
Its sad there's inequality but also many people have different priorities.
As a parent you have one job, raise well rounded decent human beings who can contribute positively to the world and do it to the best of your abilities.

I attended state schools and wouldn't dream of sending mine there.

So you’re implying if you attend a state school you can’t become a well rounded person who contributes to society? Utter nonsense. Over 90% of the population go to state schools I thought I read!

DH and I both did and have successful professional careers both our dds have thrived at decent state schools as have our friends children. Recently saw DH brother who has sent his son private honestly he sounded like he had swallowed the schools marketing brochure it was embarrassing.

Me? No.
Just bring up well rounded good humans in the best way you see fit/can. Whether thats home ed, state, private, overseas.

It was just a side note for me that I went state but after my experience I wouldn't send mine.

Private schools dont make the educational aspect superior or better in any way.