Cannot decide if we want our son to attend a private school or not

[Londonhoneycake]

I am 43 and attended a state school, although it was in a fairly middle-class, well-off area. My husband is 47 and went to a private school. We have two boys, aged 9 and 7, and we have started looking ahead at secondary schools for our eldest. We’ve attended open days and open mornings and met with heads of schools, but we’re still unsure whether to send him to a state school or go down the private route.

We aren’t wealthy. We could afford private school fees, but only just, and because of that my husband’s parents have offered to help with the costs. I’m not sure how I feel about that, whereas my husband is very much in favour of it.

I’d really like to hear from parents who weren’t completely sure either. We have good state schools nearby, some within walking distance, and I feel our children would benefit from attending a “normal” local school. My husband strongly wants them to go to a private school, but I’m conflicted because I disapprove of a system that reinforces inequality and gives children advantages purely based on their parents’ or guardians’ wealth.

I want our children to be educated alongside the majority. I also work closely with an education think tank, much of which focuses on strengthening state education, so it would feel quite hypocritical to send my children to private school given the values that underpin my work.

OP:

I just read your comments about possibly not being able to handle the finances, so it’s worth thinking carefully about the commitment. Independent schools can be pricey, with costs increasing each year and extra expenses piling up over time. It’s important to be sure you and your husband can manage them.

If independent schools are too expensive, a great alternative is to send your children to state schools and hire private tutors. At first glance, it feels like a win-win for everyone. The state schools think they’re winning, the state school parents feel like they’re winning, but no one really knows what’s going on behind the scenes. What matters most is that your children are winning. I have many friends who follow this approach.

Please don’t take state school parents’ opinions here too seriously; they seem full of resentment and feel entitled to private school parents’ money.

I have to reply to this because I see this said a lot and it's such a lie.

That 7% you are talking about is how many in ONE year, not overall. The number of people I the general population who have had private education is over 20%. Not everyone has private school all the way through. At A level alone it's about 18%. And as for being over represented...those 18% getting private education at A level are far more likely to go to uni because that's the main reason parents will pay for private A levels. Something like 50% of state students go to uni, whereas a much higher proportion of private A level students do. So out of the the people actually going to uni, private students aren't over represented and are only slightly over pre presented in certain careers. It comes down far more to what families value than the school a kid is sent to.

The rest of what you said about private school being unfair is also silly, unless we all live in exactly the same houses with the same income and have the same healthcare and holidays etc then yeah, life is unfair.

At the end of the day you should consider what's best for your children. That might be private school, it might not. But don't base that decision on propaganda, base it on what's available to you and your budget.

No they do blind recruitment so where you went to school won’t open doors. As used to happen - 90% of my fellow junior lawyers at the magic circle firm I worked at in early 2000s were from the big name public schools which can’t be right. Where I went to school came up at my interview 🙄. Hopefully that’s changed.

@redskydelight - just give it a quick google if you don’t trust the AI summary - I just don’t know how to do links 🤪. Plenty of pieces from news outlets (Guardian/BBC etc) and also a recent summary from the Sutton Trust.

Please don’t take state school parents’ opinions here too seriously; they seem full of resentment and feel entitled to private school parents’ money.

Why are our opinions not to be taken seriously? What makes you say that we are full of resentment? And how on earth have you come to the conclusion that we feel entitled to your money (how would that even work?!)?

I presume what you are trying to say is "Ignore the povos, they are just envious of our money". But you know who I find more envious? People who think that private beats all having their kids being outperformed by kids like mine. Who went to good state schools, smashed Uni and are now further outperforming the private school attendees.

I dont want your money, I dont want your misplaced pride, I dont care what you do. But I do care that you think that you have the right to look down on others who make different choices to you just because you believe that you have more money than we do.

It is not even about the money for some state schools parents. I know plenty of rich state school parents, we live in London. By rich, I mean net asset wealth in excess of 10 million pounds. Some people just do not want to spend that money on something that is available for free and perfectly good enough, just like they continue to use the NHS. Others object on principle etc. There really is no generalising about what choices people make. Just like some far poorer people do choose to scrimp and save to send their own DC to private school and are happy with that choice.

If you’re reliant on others to fund it then you can’t afford it.

What if IL’s pass away, or both end up in nursing homes costing £2,000+ per week? Would the money be ring fenced for the entirety of both dc’s education (have you got a crystal ball to predict how much fees will go up by in the next 12 years?!)?

Will IL’s add any constraints to their offer - must attend a certain school, expectations of results etc? Even if they’re unspoken there are likely to be some expectations.

Do dc realise that their friends will come from a huge catchment and they’ll need to go to school on Saturdays too? Would they prefer local friends and a choice of what sports and activities to do at weekends?

It’s really not as simple as private v state. Each school is different as is each child. Having a very healthy deposit for a home at 25 would certainly set them up well for the future, attending private school gives no such certainty.

We went state, but we didn't have grandparents willing to help out financially.

No regrets, as I think state is a better fit for us and our kids. They are bright but they're not sporty or musical, which are more pushed in the private sector. It also made transition easier having primary school friends when they went up to secondary.

They have both at different times had private tutors, so not sure how fair the state system when some pay for tutors/ have more supportive parents who help at home with the learning etc.

We've managed to save some money to help with uni, and house deposits.

No they do blind recruitment so where you went to school won’t open doors.

@TheaBrandt1 Thank you for answering my question.

We have 2 kids in private - nursery and year 1 and are fortunate enough to have FIL pay 1 term’s fees per child each year. We could’ve afforded it without that help, but you do also need to consider the extras - uniform won’t be cheap, trips will be annual and sometimes more than 1 residential a year once in senior school, if they do sports there will be extra commitments to fixtures and tours, etc.
could you comfortably afford those too?

can you also ensure that you can afford it all the way to the end of 6th form? As I feel it wouldn’t be a harder adjustment for them to attend private for a few years and then go back to a state school

I wasn’t sold on private despite having attended the school both girls now go to. But I am glad we chose it.

From what I saw (hopefully no longer) going to a “normal” private school did you no particular favours either at my old firm. The trainees were majority public school harrow / Winchester etc. So clearly not fair. Think blind recruitment though not perfect has to be the better approach.

So we have gone private and sound similar to you in terms of finances. We can afford it but we sacrifice many things to do so. Mainly meals out, holidays (we have some but not as many and definitely not luxury) and I buy way less clothes / make up etc. I’m happy with those sacrifices as we made the choice. Neither DH or I went to private school ourselves. GP help a tiny bit here too.

we also had a ‘good’ on paper state school locally. No guarantees my DC’s would get in as it’s oversubscribed hence why we originally looked at private ‘just in case’.

for us, the decision was made during the end of Covid and I think that did impact us slightly, more than it would now. My eldest (we knew this) at primary was bright and we knew she could excel in the right environment but her primary had 32 children in the class, the secondary option is the same (big intake, 30 in many classes) and although teaching is good, behaviour isn’t and the extra curricular activities are minimal by comparison. She could easily be overlooked and definitely there’s potential to fall in with the wrong crowd where we live. And also potential for the right crowd but we had had friends whose kids have been bullied etc at local secondary and felt it wasn’t dealt with. And many friends who say ‘it’s not cool to be clever at xyz’.

DD went in to secondary probably top 20% of her middle class nice primary, now she is top 5% at her independent school. It’s not super selective but I know what it’s given her is:

• extra curricular activities in abundance (drama, sport, music concerts)
• encouraged to be smart and get top grades (amongst peers too)
• lovely friendship group (not elitist, all from parents who are both working in professions eg medics, lawyers, teachers) what you’d expect but no ‘uber rich wealth’ which worried me
• one to one connection with teachers who go above and beyond to support and encourage.

this was the right school for her and a good fit. Her confidence, grades and general niceness are what made us choose it. We had a few babysitters who had attended the same school who were lovely, articulate and all going off to do interesting stuff (not all off to oxbridge!) but it felt a good school in comparison to what else was on offer. Where working hard to get ahead is seen as cool.

Would I do it again now with VAT etc? Maybe not. But I’m certainly happy with her education as is she and I feel she will come through these important years unscathed and eager to go out in the world. We are not staying for 6th form, she will go to local college and again that’s partly financial but also because she wants to ‘be in the real world’ - her choice.

i completely understand your hesitance but do remember that depending which school and where you are many kids at private school come from ‘professional working parents’ it’s not all elitism and Eton. I won’t state my profession but it’s nothing fancy and neither is my DH. We live in an average semi in a nice area but not SE. I am 100% envious of my daughter’s education as I didn’t get that and frankly both DH and I agree, we wish we had because we both think we’d have been more driven to achieve and do more. For me it wasn’t cool to be clever so I didn’t focus on that. To my regret! But each child is different and you have that decision based on them, their interests their ability and of course, what each school offers.

I’m also going to add something that many people said to us when we chose private…

DD’s school doesn’t ask for Saturday attendance ever. Some sports fixtures yes but only for those on a team (which she isn’t and it’s not ‘expected’). Many private schools don’t do this anymore. And friends, yes they are a bit further away but actually not very! In a group of 6 girls she is in, 5 live within 10 min drive, 2 within walking distance. Obviously every school is different but we deliberately chose one that had students attending from our local area not a further away one… and I’m glad we did as she now gets buses etc to see friends. That hasn’t been an issue at all. She also gets a public bus to school most days (which saves on costs) - transport is a factor so do check that. We do drive her sometimes but it’s a pain and one thing that was a bit of a drag in younger years. There’s also a private bus service but it’s £££.

In our small city the teens socialise together what school you go to is largely irrelevant.
So not sure how much bearing I would put on getting them in with the “right crowd” in the “right school”. Dds friendship group is made up of teens from various local schools both state and private. The teens are frankly utterly interchangeable in terms of manners / politeness.

What has changed significantly in the last 10 years or so, and even more post this bonkers Labour VAT, is that kids are coming out of the private sector for Sixth Form specifically. Whereas in the past, parents valued that most (eg the extra uni advice input), very small A level classes in private schools. Now people are happy to get a specialist tutor instead, if need be.
Why this is relevant is because you have to think ahead and quite clearly about whether they will then transition back easily into the state sector. Also a lot of private schools demand a term’s notice. DD is at Sixth Form with a whole lot of ex private school kids who all lost a term’s fees as they were not able to give notice early before GCSE results were due. Most Sixth Forms are selective and some highly so.

My DC's Private Secondary has no 6th form so around 90% of the DC go State post 16. They mostly seeem to get places as easily or more easily than DC from other schools and manage fine in their new environment.
Both kept old friends and made new ones

Dds state 6th is absolutely packed with ex private school pupils. It makes sense really. The classes are small, teachers really good and the less academic disruptive kids have left. Most teens except the very dedicated are less focussed on sport / music etc in 6th form,

Given the comments about moving to state sixth form, it may be worth mentioning an additional factor in people making that choice: universities are trying to increase the number of state school students. However they usually only look at where the kids are for their A levels - so some parents are moving their children to state school sixth forms to increase their children’s chances of getting offers. It’s not a practice I like, but I am aware that many parents are doing it.

They might be doing it but it won't work

I hope it doesn’t work because it’s a bit grim, but I am sure I have read articles saying that when they do the stats for state school students as a percentage of intake, it is based on where they did A levels and disregards where they attended primary or secondary school. And I certainly know a few people who have done it for that reason.

No, they look at where they did GCSE's.
My DC's school told us this and I have also seen quite a few people on here say so

Private school is not an option for my children but I was privately educated from age 4-16. I had an absolutely awful time at my secondary school, to the extent where I couldn’t bring myself to even walk past the school until a year ago!. I gained some excellent friends which I’m still in touch with but I don’t know if it was worth all the money my parents paid. In fairness the state schools in the area were dreadful.

For two children, I would not consider it unless you can comfortably afford it. A pp made a good point about only accepting the grandparents offer if you can afford to step in if they change their minds at any time. Fees will go up every year and uniforms, school trips etc are all more expensive.

My eldest child will start state secondary in September and the school he will go to has way more facilities, extra curriculars and GCSE subject options than my private school had, although I appreciate times have changed.

Is there a difference though between a privately educated DC and a highly tutored state school kid? And how would the unis be able to ascertain the latter? The tutoring craze has distorted everything now, it is so readily available online as well and trying to level the playing field is pretty impossible.

And further, what is the difference between someone having a tutor vs a highly educated parent who sits down and works with their child? A basic UCAS application tells you nothing these days. I think it would be better if the unis just focussed on particularly underrepresented groups like white working class boys. Middle class parents battling it out state vs private with grammars and tutoring thrown into the mix is entirely pointless.

Contextual offers are rarely (if ever) given based on a student simply attending a state school for either gcses or a levels. Multiple factors are considered of which attending a state school that has relatively low achievement and/or be situated in an area of deprivation may be one. Other factors may be FSM eligibility, care experience or home postcode deprivation index. Universities vary, but i am yet to see any where eligibility is simply attending a state school. Links to example criteria below

https://www.lboro.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/apply/entry-requirements/contextual-admissions/reduced-contextual-offers/

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/applying/contextual-admissions/

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/after/contextual-data