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210 replies

CardyMow · 22/06/2010 13:13

Could they POSSIBLY hit low single income families worse? Freezing child benefit for 3 years, abolishing the Health in pregnancy grant from April 2011, Getting rid of the baby element on CTC (how that helps us when I'm 3 months pg and DP only earns £16,000 is beyond me...), Lowering the thresholds for Housing benefit (we won't be able to pay our rent without the money we get on housing benefit), saying that people in social housing may no longer have a reasonable housing benefit allowance or entitlemnet for a suitably sized property. I note that they are CUTTING tax rates for businesses. Nice to know that they are hitting the poorest of us that chose to work. We are now in the situation where we are really going to have to consider whether we can AFFORD for my DP to have the luxury of having a job when we will be so much worse off than we would be on benefits, I think we may end up homeless otherwise. It might make DP feel like more of a human being to go out to work and slog his guts out for £16,000 pa, but if we can't feed our kids and pay our rent....

OP posts:
londonone · 22/06/2010 19:03

You cannot afford another child. NO ONE in this country has to have a baby contraception failure or not. Why should the state shell out for you to have 4 children 2 of which were unplanned but you were unwilling to terminate the pregnancies due to your "beliefs". Sorry but the state is there to provide a safety net not a lifestyle. You can't work due to medical reasons fine you should receive support for that, your choice to have four children you can ill afford is simply irresponsible and the state shouldn't have to pay for that.

CardyMow · 22/06/2010 19:07

How is being unwilling to kill something that has a central nervous system and a heartbeat a 'lifestyle choice'? If you did that with a cat or dog, killed them because you no longer had the money to look after them, you can be prosecuted, yet it's a lifestyle choice not to kill a human being that can feel pain?? Sorry, will agree to disagree there. It's a bit fascist to say that because DP is on a low wage, and I am unable to work due to my disability that I should in some way be forced to kill another human being. Did I wake up in Nazi Germany somewhere along the line??

OP posts:
SleepyCaz · 22/06/2010 19:10

Loudlass try NCT Nearly New sales. I sold my Bumbo seat, Moses basket, stand, Babasling and loads more, all for very very low prices. I also BOUGHT loads of things for DC1 at an earlier sale, then sold it again at a further one! They are fantastic. Look on the Mumsnet local page.

PS Try not to be disheartened, opinions emotions are running high in lots of families today.

CardyMow · 22/06/2010 19:15

SleepyCaz, everybody is entitled to their opinion, and in an ideal world, but for the grace of god, a few years ago, and a few changes in circumstances ago, I am pretty sure I would have been of the same opinions (at least on certain issues). I however have grown up, had life bite me on the backside enough and have realised that with the best will in the world, we don't live in Utopia, and not everyone can have perfect cushy lives.

I'd forgotten about the nearly new sales, got loads for the others at one, wonder if it's still being run?!

OP posts:
londonone · 22/06/2010 19:16

Of course it is a choice and if you feel that strongly about it then it is up to you not to get your self into that position. However you are unwilling to do that. You are unwilling to be celibate, you are unwilling to terminate, both choices but you think that the state should pay for the fall out. Banging on about Nazis isn't going to help you being responsible might. If you really can't afford a child and you really can't terminate then don't have sex, it's not rocket science.

SleepyCaz · 22/06/2010 19:19

The ones by me are like clockwork, every 3 months! Check the website.

The budget has been quite nasty and a lot of people have been affected. I hope you manage to find a way through it.

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 22/06/2010 19:21

Poor people should have abortions.... dear god.

Londonone I'm assuming that your entire life has been perfectly planned and managed?

londonone · 22/06/2010 19:25

No, ALL people should consider whether they can afford to have children before they do so and if they can't they should make sure they don't have them. It's not that difficult millions of people manage it, hence most people not having 10 or 11 kids.

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 22/06/2010 19:28

That would mean that poor people would be the ones going for terminations. Don't be shy, say what you mean.

tartyhighheels · 22/06/2010 19:31

the Tory government that I voted for, who promised not to hurt people in my situation, have done exactly that.

tbh Loudlass, this is your biggest problem.... they are Torie dear, this is what they do..... and as someone explained to you earlier, you will be no worse off because of the tax threshold being raised and the increase in ctc.

You are ranting about how shite you think your life is rather than this having anything to do with the budget. At least you have a protected tenancy and have a roof over your head. We all have our cross to bear, I have two disabled children, one on higher rate dla and the other on middle, i get carers allowance and we have plenty of money but i would chuck it all over for healthy children - I am pregnant (very intentionally) and have an 18 month old too - I am extremely lucky and it has fuck all to do with money or my housing.

Sorry but get a bloody grip and stop moaning, you can spend your life bitching about all the excuses you make as to why you are where you are now but just get on with it and stop blaming anyone and everything for your life and take responsibility.

EricNorthmansmistress · 22/06/2010 19:33

You will be £200 a year better off from the £1k tax allowance rise, and £150 a year better off from the CTC basic rate rise, so you will only be £50 a year worse off from losing the baby element. CB rises are worth about £15 per year per child so not a huge difference.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not overjoyed at the budget but on your income you should find you are not much worse off - not enough to really notice.

londonone · 22/06/2010 19:33

Your point is? At what point do you think people should take responsibility or should the state payout for as many children as people want to have, house them in bigger and bigger houses? Where exactly is the money coming from for all this BTW?

choufleur · 22/06/2010 19:34

I'm not considered by mine and my husbands income to be poor, but a middle income family. We really can't afford another baby after moving because of anti social behaviour and mortgaging ourselves to the hilt. That's our choice - I'll live by it.

i don't think anyone should have a termination because they are "poor" but there are loads of contraceptive available, not all of which are hormone based.

mrbojangles · 22/06/2010 19:41

I'm horrified.... what started off as a discussion on low income and the effects of this buget has turned into something quite scary!
Wondering whether to shoot myself now rather than except my life has occasionally taken unexpected turns for the worst!!! Dam......who are these perfect people! I've yet to meet one!

ilovemydogandMrObama · 22/06/2010 19:43

This is shocking. Suggesting the OP being unwilling to terminate .

I haven't read the budget, but thought there were allowances made for the working poor? People who are trying to make the best out their circumstances.

Personally, if I was in the OP's DP's position, and better off on benefits, I would go down the benefit route as then this means entitlement for retraining. There are some great 2 year degrees, paramedic for instance, although think my ideal job would be an estate manager for National Trust complete with cottage.

choufleur · 22/06/2010 19:45

But people shouldn't be better off on benefits IMO ilovemydog. I'm not suggesting that they should have no money but not better off than working and contributing to society.

tartyhighheels · 22/06/2010 19:48

no one nowdays is better off in benefits because of wtc.... you cannot just give up work, that disentitles one to benefits.

londonone · 22/06/2010 19:49

FFS that is exactly the problem. Why should the state pay out so someone can retrain just because they fancy it? There is no money the state should be a safety net for those in real need not a support service for those fancying a career break or wanting a bigger house.

All of you who are so horrified about the idea people should pay for their own children. Here's a question? Where exactly are you going to get the money to pay for it if everyone fancies having 6 children and demanding a big house? Do you know about a money tree or something? Where would you draw the line?

EricNorthmansmistress · 22/06/2010 19:54

I don't believe anyone is better off on benefits. My friend has just started working 16hrs per week in a minimum wage job. She has two young DCs and her DP has health issues which has meant he has been unable to care for them on his own. He has recently stopped getting incapacity benefit and had to go onto JSA. Her DS now has a free nursery place and her neighbour has him when he's not in nursery if her DP is feeling ill. They are better off now as she gets wages + WTC + CTC. It's a fucker for them as her DP's condition is no longer eligible for IB but if he was able to care for the little boy alone (forgetting free nursery places) they would still be better off with her working. That is the great legacy of tax credits and the one which GB should be remembered for!

ilovemydogandMrObama · 22/06/2010 19:55

Think in the long run, it's cheaper to retrain someone so they are able to come off benefits.

And don't get so high and mighty on me londonone

londonone · 22/06/2010 20:06

That is only the case because at the moment the benefits are in some cases are so generous if we didn't give people 10s of thousands a year then they would be better off in a low paid job.

nickschick · 22/06/2010 20:13

My mother in law died aged 61 my mum died aged 38 -my grandfather in law died days before his 65th birthday - all of them paid into a system they never got 'returns' on - Im happy to let their benefit'overflow' support Loudlass.

Londonone Id like to have a life as perfect and managed as yours .....theres a saying - dont kick peoples ass as you pass them on lifes ladder you will be kissing them when you come back down.

Benefits arent generous and anyone who thinks its easy to live on that income should work with the families I know.


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TheJollyPirate · 22/06/2010 20:17

There are some utterly charming people around on MN at the moment . The ones whose lives have been planned to the nth degree and who would never ever have a contraceptive failure. Not content with telling you that you have too many children, they are now saying you have no right to a sex life because you fell pregnant. Nice.

Get a grip folks - as I said earlier - sex happens, pregnancy happens despite contraception sometimes. Get over it - in this country we have a Welfare State (thank goodness). Those of you castigating loudlass want to come out with me sometime to see people with up to 8 children and not working at all. And in both those cases (only tewo families out of several thousand) the number of children is the least of the problems.

Leave loudlass alone - her DP is working, contributing to society and paying tax so get off your fucking high horses those of you being so high and mighty and just pray your lives never change for the worst.

nickschick · 22/06/2010 20:24

Leave loudlass alone - her DP is working, contributing to society and paying tax so get off your fucking high horses those of you being so high and mighty and just pray your lives never change for the worst.


Adair · 22/06/2010 20:25
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