Right-wing American Pied Piper Charlie Kirk assassinated

[MsAmerica]

I see a thread was started in Chat, but it's obviously more appropriate here. I've been in an American forum where someone wondered if it's of international interest.

Right now it's so early that there's no predicting what will develop, whether it will snowball into something catastrophic. Oddly, after a few hours, it's still not known for sure if they caught the shooter, which is strange, as they supposed knew where the shot came from. I'm already running across some odd conspiracy theories.

Conservative activist Charlie Kirk dies after being shot at Utah Valley University event
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/conservative-activist-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-valley-university-event-spokesperson-says

Charlie Kirk assassinated at Utah event
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/09/10/charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-valley-university/86080079007/

Charlie Kirk, a prominent conservative activist and Trump ally, dies after shooting at Utah campus event
www.cnn.com/2025/09/10/politics/charlie-kirk-obituary

You can't be serious. When was a public figure last assassinated by gunfire in Europe? America has a unique gun culture, and the difference between a sniper and a Walmart gun owner is irrelevant to the debate.

I'm saying he wasn't 'collateral damage' as stated by the previous poster.

This was a professional hit.

Just because you regard someone's beliefs or statements as abhorrent, doesn't mean you think they should be assassinated, or that their assassination is justified or acceptable. Come on, this isn't complicated.

He's paid his respects to Charlie Kirk, an influential right wing campaigner who was brutally murdered and said he will posthumously award him the medal of honor.

He did not pay similar respects to Melissa and Mark Hortman who were brutally murdered in their own home - he instead used their deaths as an opportunity to attack Tim Weiss. Despite dedicating her life to public service she was not posthumously awarded the medal of honor.

So respectfully....what's your point?

It really isn't.

I posted this on the other thread but it is relevant here:

There are violent extremists on both the extreme right and extreme left wing - and let's face it, political opinion is basically a circle with not that much of a gap between the extremes on both sides.

Of course those on the left are obvious suspects when it comes to violence against politicians on the right and vice versa - although the data is clear that right wing extremists are responsible for a lot more acts of violence and terrorism than left-wingers.

www.cato.org/blog/politically-motivated-violence-rare-united-states

This data shows that if you exclude 9/11 there have been 477 politically motivated deaths with the right responsible for over 80% of them and the left responsible for 14%.

And before anyone shouts bias, the Cato institute is libertarian, so generally right leaning.

In the UK, the majority of political killings in the 20th century and beyond were driven by the Northern Ireland Troubles and were commited by the IRA on the left and the Loyalists on the right.

There has been no other left wing politically motivated killings or attempted killings in the UK as far as I can recall - they have all either been Isalmist (05/07, Lee Rigby and David Amess) or right wing (Jo Cox).

There have been three potentially political acts of murder or attempted murder in the US in the last couple of years which have been 'linked' to the left.

I say potentially because none have been confirmed as being politically motivated.
Trump assassination attempt - deemed left wing because the perpetrator once do ated $15 to the Democrats, even though he was a registered republican and had a social media account which tended to lean towards right wing views.

The Minnesota church shooting - deemed left wing because the perpetrator identified as trans and his journal had one entry with a rainbow flag and a mention of equality but beyond that, nothing known about his motivation other than he was obsessed with other mass shootings.

Charlie Kirk - perpetrator assumed to be from the left but we don't yet know and Kirk was disliked by a lot of people on the extreme right due to his willingness to debate the issues and not just impose his views.

Happy to consider the view that there are a lot of violent extremists on the left if it can be backed up with data - but I can't find.anything which suggests that this is the case or that the left are more violent than the right!

*Addition - I have also just remembered the assassination of Brian Thompson - but the perpetrator in that case was neither right wing or left wing as he held a mix views.

I know that, the poster I asked the question of seems to just be quoting Kirk's words [all over MN] as some sort of justification for the assassination. Otherwise why choose those words in particular?

Couldn’t agree more.
I am truly shocked at the huge level of celebration of his killing coming from the left.
I was watching college students in America being interviewed and they were gleeful.
The education establishments in America and here push a very left wing agenda.
If you look on YouTube at the Oxford and Cambridge debates you will see a level of brainwashing evident that is astounding.
I saw it with my own daughter at school.
Thankfully she hasn’t been brainwashed and has come out the other side.
There are going to be an awful lot of indoctrinated young that will leave their education establishments and will suffer from mental difficulties from the indoctrination that they have been subjected to and are just not going to cope with life in the real world.

I've seen Charlie Kirk debate things many times, and I always agree with him. I'm pretty right wing. No one deserves to be shot for free speech, it is abhorrent. That poor man and his family.

What I can't understand though, is what he was doing, constantly touring Colleges, telling students that a College education was a waste of time, and arguing with them about all manner of difficult subjects, more often than not making the students look like idiots in front of their peers, because they mostly didn't have the ability or knowledge, to debate effectively with someone who was 14 years their senior, and a practised spokesman.

We can all remember how strongly we felt about everything at 18 - hormones are soaring, you think you're going to conquer the world, and you think you know everything, you are consumed with a burning passion for the slightest of causes, and you think your parents and teachers are old, stuffy and don't know anything about the modern world, even though they are only maybe in their late 40's (cringe).

It seems to me, as though he built up a ton of resentment amongst college students - as evidenced by their lack of care at his passing - and this had led to some hormone fuelled kid taking him out. Yes, it was a good shot from far away, but lots of teens will have been shooting guns since they were small - this is the USA after all!

Sadly, this is going to affect most people who are in the public eye - who would want to do that now? Not least Candace Owens, who has the same MO as Charlie, touring Colleges and debating in the same theme.

Anyone remember this.
The face of intolerance trying to shut down anyone else speaking.
Claiming anything of an opposing view is hate speech.

Islamism and the far Left has merged in recent times, if you think about Greta Thunberg and Palestine marches, Campus protests where all the students wear the kaffir etc. This is giving them the numbers to displace the Centarist Left that we have been used to thinking of.

What about Melissa Hortman, Esther Salas, Heather Heyer, John Hoffman, DNC pipe bombs, Josh Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer? Murdered or attempted murders by the right. Or the ones in link below? What does that say about the right?

https://www.cato.org/blog/politically-motivated-violence-rare-united-states

Left leaning people attending pro-palastinian protests and supporting the palastinian people is absolutely not an indication that islamists have merged with the left for goodness sake!

Fundamental Islamists are a political faction in their own right but if you want to go down that route of combining them you have to acknowledge that they have far more in common with the extreme right than the extreme left - subjugation of women, restricting access to education, opposition to liberal democracy, exclusionary identity politics, policing what people wear are all tropes of the right, not the left.

Sure there is a crossover between them and the left over the issue of Palestine, but while it is a shared cause, the motives and long term goals are very different. The majority of left leaning people (and non-islamist muslims) attending those protests just want the see the end of the needless death and destruction, whereas the fundamental islamists want the destruction of Israel and a palastinian caliphate.

It is no different to the cross over between gender critical feminists and the far right - while there is agreement that people cannot change sex and that children should not be subject to gender related medication and surgery the motives are very very different. GC feminists are fighting back against TRAs to preserve women's rights, the extreme right just don't like them and hide behind the feminists arguments to impose their will. We already know they have no interest in women's rights and are actively seeking to reduce and remove them.

This is why, despite being GC, I absolutely do not support the way they are currently treating trans identifying individuals.

Extreme groups of all colours will always appear as a Venn diagramme of seemingly overlapping beliefs on the surface - which is why taking the time to understand what motivations drive people before throwing your lot in with them just because they seem to agree with you.

What I can't understand though, is what he was doing, constantly touring Colleges, telling students that a College education was a waste of time, and arguing with them about all manner of difficult subjects, more often than not making the students look like idiots in front of their peers, because they mostly didn't have the ability or knowledge, to debate effectively with someone who was 14 years their senior, and a practised spokesman.

@fastingforweightloss - he set his Turning Point organisation up with the expressed intention of bringing conservative values to liberal education centres. Him and acolytes were essentially prothletising.

He was entitled to his views and you are entitled to agree with him - but luckily in the UK you wouldn't be allowed to force your 10 year old daughter to give birth and would quite rightly be looked at as completely mad if you said that the death of innocent people was worth it to enable you to own a gun!

They don't love Islamists because of shared values - they love them because they view them as a battering ram against Western civilisation.
Islamists, are wrapped in the Left's favourite cloak: "oppressed minority."

Islamists hate the West. So does the Left. That makes them temporary allies.

In fact, if you actually read most comments, also on here, the left is calling for unity and peace, an end to political violence and gun ownership laws - frankly, a practical solution.

The Trump right is calling for 'JUSTICE' and the death penalty for the killer - which they've already decided is trans/left wing (despite the vast majority of public shooters being right wing extremists) and all those things which do NOTHING to calm the situation.

YOU are fanning the flames.

You are conflating Islamist with Muslim - while all Islamists are Muslim, only a small proportion of Muslims are islamists.

Most left leaning people recognise that Muslims are an oppressed minority who receive a lot of hatred in the UK and are appalled at the deaths of tens of thousands of children in Palestine.

That does not mean they support Islamists who are political extremists.

Most left leaning people also do not hate the west. As with Muslims / Islamists, only a small number of left leaning people are extremists most just want an equal, fair and safe society with decent public services, jobs and universal health care. Equally, most on the right want a safe society which aligns with their views and do not agree with the minority of right wing extremists.

There is a quote from the West Wing where Sam Seaborn says "For all the partisan noises made on the margins.we are a nation of centrists" and I think that is very much the case in the UK.

Even though the Overton window has shifted to the right and those partisan margins have got wider the majority just want a just want to get on with life and rub along together.

Without extremists (right, left and islamist) stiring up hatred and divisions for their own ends (whether ideological, political or financial) people would generally be willing to compromise to make sure life gets a little bit better for everyone.

Unfortunately the extremists on all sides push their rhetoric to the point where people start to believe that the only acceptable solution is to have everything their own way so nobody gets anything, nothing gets agreed and life gets worse for everyone - apart from the extremists who get richer, gain power and instill rules and laws which meet their ideology.

Trans issues aside, what are the specific things that are part of a left wing agenda that you think students are being brainwashed with that will leave them unable to cope with the real world?

Universities for the most part teach critical thinking skills. God knows that a significant portion of students at red brick and ivy league schools come from backgrounds where they are more likely to have been raised with conservative views and values - maybe their change of stance isn't brainwashing at all but a result of them employing those critical thinking skills and just coming to a different conclusion?

I spent my whole youth being told by my dad that I would 'change my mind' when I was older / got married / bought a house / had a child whenever I disagreed with him.

I didn't and if anything, after what's been happening in this country over the past 10 years, his views have actually changed to be more in line with mine.

Candace Owens, FFS. A full on conspiracy theorist who thinks Brigitte Macron is a man.

Not a sniper it appears. An amateur who was a student at the University.

In your view, is the right a risk to society bc of Josh Shapiro, Melissa Hortman, Gretchen Whitmer, Mike Pence, Paul Pelosi, Esther Salas, John Hoffman, the 2024 neo Nazi Marine abortion clinic bomber....?

There are evil wretches on both sides. If you think the right are clean, you are blind. Both sides are filthy.

Is it logic and reason, in your view to say that 10yo rape victims should have no access to abortion, that abortion is worse than the Holocaust, and that having gay relationships is like being an alcoholic or drug addict?

How did he react to one his worst "enemies", someone who tried to have him removed from office countless times ? (it's Ruth Ginsburg if you've forgotten) ?

As soon as you add "influential right wing campaigner" your underlying attempt at a smear is obvious.

My DD came out of school a few years back with a high level of indoctrination - "I hate Trump, I hate JKR, I hate ..." etc., then went to college and became even worse but now she lives in the the real world she has thankfully matured and realises what an idiot she was unlike quite a few posters on MN

I sense quite a few probably get paid for their services to "the cause", same as Twitter / X, you see the same text being used time after time, very occasionally it's even factual.

So the 'pro life' lobby have called for the death penalty for the shooter.

Also, unsurprisingly, it doesn't seem as tough he was trans.

I have asked this on other threads but not had a response. I was aware of him but dont agree with his views so hadn't watched his debates. Perhaps I was wrong. I am not interested in social media sound bites and shorts as they can be edited to distort but does anyone have any links to any full, proper debates I can watch please. I genuinely would like to understand the context for his views and learn from them even if I robustly disagree.
All the hatred and blame flying around is exactly the problem and of course he should not have been murdered