Rise of fascism... what, if anything, can decent people do?

[MrsBennetsPoorNerves]

Trump's victory is obviously alarming for many of us, but we've seen the rise of the far right in lots of places across Europe to a greater or lesser extent as well. History teaches us that bad things happen when decent people stand by and do nothing . So what, if anything, should those of us who are concerned about the rise of fascism be doing now?

Please note: if you're a Trump fan and don't agree that he is a fascist, this is not the thread to debate that. There are plenty of other threads where we can discuss that point, but this one is aimed at those who already accept that premise. Obviously, I can't stop you posting here, as it's an open forum and I don't get to police it, but I won't be engaging with any posts from Trump apologists on this thread because I don't want irrelevant debate to derail the main discussion.

I watched this short video the other day OP - How to Stop Fascism by author Paul Mason. It is helpful. He links in historical actions that have helped prevent fascism taking hold.

Would recommend.

Afghanistan is a mess, for a whole host of different reasons, but I see no reason to deny the Palestinians their basic freedoms because of things going horribly wrong in another country.

But they wouldn’t be free, as PP has said. They wouldn’t flourish into a liberal Islamic democracy as you seem to think they will. Hamas would likely rebrand as a political party, ensure they win or install a puppet government, then have far more freedom to organise acts of terror or revenge against Israel or the West as there would be zero checks and balances.

I wholeheartedly supported a ceasefire all the way through, and I support the notion of Netanyahu being investigated by the criminal courts to see if he knowingly committed war crimes. But the suffering of the Palestinian people sadly does not justify the consequences of making them an autonomous state, to me. I think the risks are too high. You feel differently and want to give it a go and hope for the best despite the risks, which you are entitled to.

Well it seems that you have just decided that they wouldn't be free, but we don't actually know that. Personally I don't think that's for us to decide.

You are very focused on the risks that the Palestinians would face in an independent Palestine but you don't seem to have any solution to address the horrific realities that they are facing right now. From my perspective, the risks of not pursuing a two-state solution far outweigh the risks of an independent Palestine. And despite your suggestion that Netanyahu should be tried by the ICC to determine if he has committed war crimes, you seem curiously unconcerned about the plight of the Palestinian people as things stand right now, so it's hard to understand your apparent concern about what would happen to them if they were to be given their independence. It is an extremely inconsistent position.

Which leads me to conclude that you're actually not that bothered about what happens to the Palestinian people at all, but rather by what you perceive would be the risks to Israel and/or the West from an independent Palestinian state. And I think you're wrong there, because continuing perceptions around the injustices suffered by the Palestinian people across the Middle East will only help to fuel a lot of the anti Israeli and anti Western sentiment, putting all of us at greater risk in the longer term.

Agree.

On another note certain posters keep going with the "all Muslims are barbarians" trope again.

Well it seems that you have just decided that they wouldn't be free, but we don't actually know that

No, I’ve come to that conclusion via strong evidence. Evidence you shrug off as it doesn’t fit your narrative and is a bit uncomfortable for you.

You ask what decent people can do to stem the rise in fascism.
May I give you a few suggestions.

Stop calling ordinary, decent people fascists simply because they are concerned about the current state of our country.

Stop calling ordinary, decent people racists because they are concerned about the effect immigration is having on our traditions and culture.

Stop referring to ordinary, decent people as extreme right wing simply because they do not agree with your views.

There are very few people in this country who are truly extreme right wing. Polarising the debate is counter productive. This country has suffered for too long under socialist/liberal/progressive policies that simply have not worked. It is time for a change.

The pendulum never stops in the middle. Engaging with decent, ordinary people who have different views to you without being arrogant and patronising may just stop the political pendulum from moving too far to the right.

I don't personally think that people should only be free to govern themselves if their chosen government has my seal of approval.

What if the people choose a far-right government? The subject of this thread is what can be done about the rise of fascism yet you say you think people should be able to choose their government even though you don’t approve of it?

Spot on @grannyrose15

Are you really suggesting that we have had a string of socialist governments since the end of WW2 ?

Truth is the Tories have been in power for the majority of that period.

Imho this country is more right wing than anything in mainland Europe, Hungary aside & i don't believe its a tiny minority either, Reform is packing 25% in the polls, the Tories under Badenoch are competing for the far right vote, so thats around 40% of the electorate.
Right parties in Europe are lucky to get 20% of the vote share.

Yes Reform are far right, their leader worships Trump, who in turn supports Tommy Robinson & the AfD.... who all back Russia and Putin.

Fair point

Do people on these threads ever actually discuss or is it all point-scoring? History, inc. popular history, has all the lessons on how to stop the rise of fascism, so decent people should start there.

I’m quoting here from the linked article, it kind of says it all. We risk going through the same again, institutions designed to protect people and democracy are under threat.

‘"The big problem was that the institutions that secured democracies collapsed," said Diner.
What lessons must we learn from this today? Diner's answer is simple but meaningful: "You learn from it to respect institutions."’

How can it be that we have so much information but no intelligence?

https://www.dw.com/en/could-adolf-hitlers-seizure-of-power-have-been-prevented/a-64536596

@Wildflowers99 , we may have a long wait.

‘"The big problem was that the institutions that secured democracies collapsed," said Diner.

Did this also happen before communist dictatorships took over?

It's a good question. You'll have to remind me, which functioning democracies became Communist dictatorships?

Nobody is doing those things. Lots who aren’t are being accused of it.
Where do you stand on Nazi salutes from people close to the US President?

It's a good question. You'll have to remind me, which functioning democracies became Communist dictatorships?

The only one that immediately springs to mind is Venezuela - but I’ll have a Google.

I think the insight applies across the board, definitely what’s implied by the person I’m quoting, but the original question I was responding to is about Fascism. Is it important?

edit, reply to @Barbadossunset

Is it important?

Is what important?

Responding to your question at 18:21

I don’t know whether it’s important or not - I was just adding to the discussion. You gave reasons why fascism can happen and I wondered if these reasons can also apply to communism getting power as both communist and fascist regimes are dictatorships.

Ordinary supposedly decent people can be fascist

Why the hec do you think fascist governments have always been able to come to power? Because they rely on fascists and mugs to vote them in

I mean I'm not fascist o just see a fascist government to be best for me ?

Yep, Hitler came to power in a democratic election, aided by the hubris of certain people who thought they could control him.

In the last sentence, are you talking about people’s self-interest?

Loved this speech that was all over my linked in this week (has anyone noticed that LinkedIn is being used like Facebook used to be - could be just my echo chamber)

www.linkedin.com/posts/andreasvonderheydt_usa-europe-asia-ugcPost-7299114068789919745-FQlQ?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&rcm=ACoAAA0GOxoBeCJ8Bgbp4HnbkNJihBTQyeq85-s