Rise of fascism... what, if anything, can decent people do?

[MrsBennetsPoorNerves]

Trump's victory is obviously alarming for many of us, but we've seen the rise of the far right in lots of places across Europe to a greater or lesser extent as well. History teaches us that bad things happen when decent people stand by and do nothing . So what, if anything, should those of us who are concerned about the rise of fascism be doing now?

Please note: if you're a Trump fan and don't agree that he is a fascist, this is not the thread to debate that. There are plenty of other threads where we can discuss that point, but this one is aimed at those who already accept that premise. Obviously, I can't stop you posting here, as it's an open forum and I don't get to police it, but I won't be engaging with any posts from Trump apologists on this thread because I don't want irrelevant debate to derail the main discussion.

You are describing the current Labour government

Ed. Spelling

True. It fits

And the Dems campaign

I'm describing the left in most European countries which is why the far right are a threat.

Definition and evidence are very overrated. After all we just know we are morally superior to those fascists, even if we can't define it.

They all need to be silenced for their irredeemable hate and lwts face it stupidity.

Thank you for creating this debate. So we can confirm all the ways in which we are righteous and they are untermenschen

That is how fascism manifested itself in the 1940s, however neither the modern left, nor the modern right fit the description of fascism on all counts.

Both are entirely different from Germany during the Weimar Republic, but one that in my opinion fits the people claiming to be antifascists (and also moral superiority) better than the other side

Liberal literally means willing to accept behaviour or opinions different from your own).

Do you feel that sums up the spirit of this thread?

The point being made is that the liberal left are no longer liberal but are themselves edging dangerously close to authoritarianism

A key component of fascism.

Now this is interesting. Are you saying your points can be applied to both sides then? So it's polarised politics BUT with the big distinction that 'the left' (e.g. Dems) don't want to ban abortion, take away healthcare etc but this seems to go unheard by supporters of 'the right' who prefer to think that the left are actually fascist?

What particular enemy has been singled out for vilification by the current Labour government?

I'm genuinely baffled by anyone thinking those points apply to Labour.

I think that we're living in a dustbowl after being stripped off everything but the kitchen sink. A small percentage of the world has the majority of the world's wealth and access to essential resources.

People (on all sides) have been left to scrap for the crumbs. Deindustrialization and globalisation means that for decades blue collar workers have been abandoned.

Privatisation and deregulation means that businesses are charging what they want for vast profits. They are doing what they want to the environment (in the UK that includes pumping raw sewage into our waterways), while paying their stakeholders vast sums and withholding essential investment.

No political party offers an alternative and Trump and his chums are going to strip the US and pick its bones.

The left has long abandoned its working class voter base. The left in the UK is more right wing than left but things have moved so far right, they offer a sliver of difference.

No left wing party currently represents the traditional interests of the working class and right wing populism offers easy answers to complex problems.

Yup don’t think Labour’s workers’ rights bill is helping the working class? Or free breakfasts in schools?

His overwhelming victory scares the hell out of me because I know it won't last 5 years and I know what it means for the UK

Trump has openly said he's going to change America chooses it's leader....this is about removing the right to vote or diluting what a vote means.

I'm afraid our own far right will be energised by this news and guess who's close to Trump....Farage. Labour have got an immense challenge ahead and now they have Trump and Farage causing trouble....

My advice to young people is get the hell out of Britain right now.

What a ridiculous shrill response. Where might they go that is free of any right leaning parties?!

No one is going to touch the peoples right to vote, and if anything democracy is becoming strengthened by the right to choose and for that decision to be enacted regardless of political persuasion.

It's not, Trump has said openly that he's going to do things differently as the American democracy doesn't work. This is despite him being elected.

Ask me the same question in 5 years....Trump is going to rig the system...

🤬Scum of the earth.

The term isn't going to fit anything 100%. There are always going to be variants containing some element but not others.
However, that is the definition, whether you like it or not. You are, of course, free to define anything incorrectly if you like.
Germany was not fascist during the Weimar Republic, it was a liberal democracy, so I can't figure out why you brought that up.

I also don't understand your question about the spirit of this thread. It's a question about what to do about fascism. What spirit are you suggesting this question should be asked/answered in and how would that be demonstrated?

Absolutely. You cannot engage meaningfully with people who are living in an alternate reality. They cannot be reasoned with because their beliefs are completely based on their emotions, the predominant one being fear.

Btw, @MoreAgreeableMyArse
your definition of liberal is not the political definition.
There are two; classical liberalism being basically about civil liberties and democracy, and modern American liberalism being more about human rights and progressive causes.

Your definition is more for being liberal as a personal characteristic- open to new ideas, respect for different opinions. So were you asking me if I think most of the people in this thread are liberals on a personal level? If so, I can't answer that, not having sufficient information to judge by.

My advice to young people is get the hell out of Britain right now.

@dubsie

Where would you suggest they go?

You missed the point completely despite repeating it back to me verbatim.

I am not disputing the definition of fascism. I am saying it incompletely describes both Trump/maga AND the neo left in different aspects.

Neither side recognise it in themselves.
Actual liberals recognise it in both sides

My question about the spirit of the thread was pointing out the irony of the 'left's' pious assumption ( the OP in this thread) that she is 'decent'.
Standing in moral judgement about percieved hate of the mythical other.

The 'left' are so spectacularly unaware of their own authoritarian fascistic tendencies, they can't see it even when it is pointed out. Which it has been repeatedly.

We are saying the neo left (critical social justice/ antifascists) have fascist tendencies. They aren't actually left wing since they have rejected socialism and any sort or material analysis. They are as bad as Trump. Possibly worse.

Hitler and fascism rose to power DURING the weimar republic out of a liberal democracy. They called themselves the social democratic party. I doubt the average german housefrau who voted them in thought of herself as a fascist either.

@dubsie my advice to young people is to get the hell out of Britain now.

Well, that's pretty spineless! Do you always run away from things you don't like?

Far better to stay and resist any emergence by the far right. My DS has the chance of a good life right here, supported by family and friends. He is well educated, and has opportunities in a well paid career in a beautiful part of the world.

If he chooses to go elsewhere, that's fine but it won't be because there is nothing to stay for. What an over-dramatisation.

Funny you should say that, because you actually missed my point. I'm saying it may be incomplete, but that doesn't make it inaccurate. As I said, it's going to be incomplete in describing any movement, because some elements will be lacking. The key, defining elements just need to be there.

So basically, you are saying the OP can't be liberal, simply because she thinks wanting to fight fascism is an example of being decent? She said nothing about hating anybody. That is a huge reach and pure straw. You can point things out all the livelong day if it pleases you, but if they aren't reasonable, logical and justifiable, don't expect people to agree. OP is perfectly entitled to consider herself a decent person because she wants to fight fascism. You aren't the self image police and her self image has nothing to do with you. You seem to be perceiving a slight that isn't there just so you can get all offended and make sweeping generalizations about the awful lefties who say mean things. I would suggest that you badly need to grow a thicker skin if that's your idea of an insult.

I'm agreeing its incomplete. I'm not saying it is inaccurate.
I agree there are elements of the american right that share features with fascism.

I'm just saying that there are elements of the neo lib left that also share features with fascism

But you are absolutely correct that i am saying that people who post things like this are not liberal.

I am not percieving a slight or insult towards myself. I am not a Trump supporter. I don't give a shit about OPs self image, I am just telling her how it appears to me. (and 50% of the American population many who voted for biden last time. So it is ludicrous to suggest they are all fascists.)

Ultimately the one thing that determines whether or not an administration is a threat to democracy is this: does dissent have any place, yes or no? If the voice of the minority is squashed then it is a dictatorship. If the voice of the minority can still be heard, then it remains a democracy. The proof that the Dems were never dictatorial is clearly that the voice of the minority got the opportunity to become the voice of the majority. Will the reverse be true though? That's the question here.

Ah, okay. I don't share your perception that she was suggesting all of those voters are fascists, but I do understand where you're coming from now.
I do think she was saying the party is fascist. I don't find that unreasonable.

Trump has threatened to jail reporters and political opponents, plus even entertainers who have been critical of him. That is clearly
anti-democracy and dictatorial. The people who voted for him obviously didn't care, which I find crazy.
Perhaps they are relying on the checks and balances of the justice system to keep him under control, but they shouldn't take that for granted.

The Republicans aren't fascist. They ming on about free speech and the 3rd ammendment all the bloody time.

Though I suppose he did fail to conceed the last election, and he won't be eligible for a fourth term, so I guess we will find out soon if he has dictator tendencies.

I still think he is a common and garden insecure narcisist with a massive platform, a deep pocket, an uncanny talent for making people feel heard.

I predict his ego won't be challenged like last time by giving up power when the constitution says you can only serve a maximum of 3 terms.

The real concern is how much damage will he do, lumbering around, propping up his ego whilst in power.

Still doesn't excuse pampered sanctimonious faux libs stoking fear about fascism.

Inexfuckingscusable.

More than part of the problem. Dangerous.
Self reflection long overdue