Rise of fascism... what, if anything, can decent people do?

[MrsBennetsPoorNerves]

Trump's victory is obviously alarming for many of us, but we've seen the rise of the far right in lots of places across Europe to a greater or lesser extent as well. History teaches us that bad things happen when decent people stand by and do nothing . So what, if anything, should those of us who are concerned about the rise of fascism be doing now?

Please note: if you're a Trump fan and don't agree that he is a fascist, this is not the thread to debate that. There are plenty of other threads where we can discuss that point, but this one is aimed at those who already accept that premise. Obviously, I can't stop you posting here, as it's an open forum and I don't get to police it, but I won't be engaging with any posts from Trump apologists on this thread because I don't want irrelevant debate to derail the main discussion.

They're well worth reading in their entirety, but the TL;DR of those articles is that Musk's current actions in attacking US institutions – not just the staff firings but the grabs of citizens' personal data – are straight from a blueprint by Curtis Yarvin, who has received funding from Peter Thiel (founder of PayPal and the very powerful big-data company Palantir).

They are part of a movement of neo-reactionary tech oligarchs who believe themselves more appropriate to run the US than a democratic government.

From the second link:

[The memo says:] “Elon Musk’s unchecked consolidation of power over government infrastructure, financial systems, AI governance, and digital media does not serve the interests of the Trump administration or the broader conservative movement”, warns the memorandum. “While some may view Musk as a useful instrument in dismantling the bureaucratic state, in reality, his actions demonstrate that he is not working for Trump or the Republican Party, but rather for his own power and the broader neo-reactionary agenda.”
[...]
Musk, the memo warns, is moving rapidly to take control of the apparatus of US Government power on behalf of a core network of interests who subscribe to Yarvin’s ‘ Dark Enlightenment’ ideology. Other leaders in the US technology oligarchy aligned with Musk who subscribe to Yarvin’s ideas include Marc Andreessen (partner at venture-capital firm A16Z and author of the Techo-Optimist Manifesto), Balaji Srinivasan (former chief technology officer of Coinbase and author of the Network State), David Sacks (who co-founded PayPal with Peter Thiel), and of course Thiel himself.
[...]
The [whistleblowers'] memo points out that Curtis Yarvin has a vision for an “American Caesar”—a strong leader who would dismantle existing democratic institutions and centralize power, but argues that “Trump is no Caesar.”

Although Yarvin has recently, in light of the rapid dismantlement of key US Government agencies, endorsed Trump’s second term, his pro-Trump position still sees Trump as little more than a vessel and tool for the neo-reactionary movement. “Caesar was an Olympian. Trump should be on Ozempic”, Yarvin wrote.
[...]
The memo reveals that Musk’s actions fit alarmingly well with Yarvin’s prescriptions for how a Trump administration can be exploited by the neo-reactionary movement to install a new faction of elitist Silicon Valley technocrats at the helm of a hollowed-out US Government.
[...]
The whistleblowers conclude: “The hollowing out of government, the privatization of state functions, and the centralization of decision-making in unelected corporate-backed figures—once abstract concepts in Yarvin’s writings—who make a spectacle of the Presidency are now being tested at the highest levels of government.”
https://bylinetimes.com/2025/02/07/silicon-valley-whistleblowers-warn-elon-musk-hijacking-republicans-to-control-entire-us-government/

Oh, not sure why my post has been temporarily hidden.

It was a TL;DR of that first article plus some quotes from it – so folks can go read it themselves anyway.

Ah, of course, it mentioned Peter Thiel as founder of a particular payment company.

Steve Bannon, Trump's former chief strategist, is supposedly very influenced by Yarvin's writing.

But already a deep schism has opened between Bannon and Musk. The tech oligarchy have different wants from Bannon; and Musk's attack on the functioning of government institutions and on payments of federal funding has impacted people whom Bannon sees as his constituency.

Oh sorry, do you not know that phrase? Never mind.

Excellent post thank you.

I think they were asking regarding the context, not the phrase.

Excellent, if it was responding to a post I hadn’t written

I'm sure they can read back a few posts and see.

What?

It was an excellent post because it was fact checking and had some valuable context and information in it.

Of course I know the phrase I just don't understand what it's supposed to mean in that context. Are you unable to explain it?

You just need to read back a bit. There seemed to be a lot of blame on the left while the right were being let "off the hook". Do you understand now?

I think the mistake the left make is in assuming that the Tories are a right wing party and represent right wing thought anymore than Labour or the Lib Dems do. There hasn't been a right wing government in my living memory. People think Thatcher was right wing, she wasn't. She was a Liberal, they are all liberals

That's interesting because the right are rereading Gramsci too.

Given this very thread is essentially blaming the right/far right, what do you mean by ‘a lot of blame on the left while the right were being let off the hook’? There is ample criticism of the right, the fact they are the prevailing movement in many countries now doesn’t mean they aren’t scrutinised.

I think part of the issue is that so many posters seem to think beliefs can only be genuine and sincerely held if they are left/centre left, whereas any right/centre right views are an agenda/goady and ‘not real views, just a vehicle’.

There was a v interesting interview with John Major on iPlayer recently which is worth a watch. His belief is that the British public are slightly to the right, and that trying to force them to the left via contempt/ridicule/blocking votes will result in a huge swing to the right far beyond their natural sitting. I’m inclined to agree with him.

Yes very much so. I'll see if I can find it.

Did he say anything about the public being slightly more left of centre fiscally and slightly more right of centre socially? I would also add, the centre can only be relative to the extremes - what we call right of centre now was at one point quite left of centre.

There aren’t many answers to the question on this thread are there? So what exactly can we do to combat the rise of fascism?

Firstly, both Labour and the Conservatives need to get better at using Tik Tok and other social media so they can get their own messages across as efficiently and effectively as the far right does.

Secondly, Labour need to find a way to counter the damage being inflicted on them by the traditional print media (especially the Daily Mail). I know fewer and fewer people read newspapers these days but they still set the agenda somehow. If Labour are weakened it follows that the right are strengthened - and that includes the far right. Who owns these papers? What can be done about them? Does anybody have any ideas?

Basically, we need PR experts to come up with ways to counter fascism.

Thirdly, the Conservatives need to stop shooting themselves in the foot. For instance, Kemi Badenoch is unelectable - it may not be acceptable to say so, but someone needs to call it out before we get to the next election because otherwise people who might otherwise have voted Tory will flock to the far right in droves. It’s not fair on Ms Badenoch, but it’s a fact. Electorally she’s as much of a liability as Joe Biden was.

Also, Labour and the Conservatives need to work together to fight fascism. The rules are changing and the old way of doing politics has to change too. They have a common cause (to keep the fascists out) and they should communicate and collaborate with each other to find ways to achieve this.

Lastly, people’s legitimate concerns about the economy and immigration should be addressed and they should not be written off as racist or stupid for worrying about the decline of their country and the possible causes of this. At the same time, we must defend equality, human rights and the rule of law - and fight racism, chauvinism and bigotry. We must champion democracy. We must not give in.

Also, Labour and the Conservatives need to work together to fight fascism. The rules are changing and the old way of doing politics has to change too. They have a common cause (to keep the fascists out) and they should communicate and collaborate with each other to find ways to achieve this. @Teaandapple - this is traditionally what German politicians do (though working in a PR system) . It's generally agreed that Hitler got into power because the more moderate right wing parties invited him in, thinking he'd be useful and also thinking they'd be able to control him.
I agree the media landscape is a very different thing now, but I think mainstream politics and primarily the right of centre needs to refind it's moral centre and not just pursue power for the sake of power.
I'm trying not to follow the Trump news blow by blow because it's distracting and it's intentionally distracting. I've started reading work which dissects the rise of totalitarian fascism in history - Hannah Arendt, I think is the most insightful person I've read so far, though I've not read all her stuff. Currently reading the rise of totalitarianism.

Also, Labour and the Conservatives need to work together

Pretty much every time Labour speak it's to reiterate how the mistakes are those you'd like to join together

Politics is very tribal here, I don't think Labour would lose that crutch

That was a quote of the previous poster @EasternStandard - you're right that they are very tribal in public, I do think there are reasonable people on both sides though and I hope they are able to discuss this sort of thing together. There has been respectful collaboration before.

"Arendt believed that a society in which individuals are disconnected from each other is most vulnerable to totalitarian leaders.
“When people are atomized, a movement or a strongman arises and he offers a story or an ideology which claims to explain everything, why people are unhappy,” explained In Our Time’s guest Robert Eaglestone. “This story becomes more and more powerful. You can’t argue with people who become Nazis or Stalinists because there’s only one way to think.”
Arendt’s other key idea about totalitarianism was something she called “terror”.
“Totalitarian terror regimes take away your name, your identity, your rights and reduce you to just your body,” said Eaglestone. Arendt thought that once you’re just a body you’re superfluous and you can be killed without the killer feeling any guilt."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5NvjlzbsFz59wRWgyBh8dBz/what-hannah-arendt-can-teach-us-about-totalitarianism

People are unhappy. You see it on here all the time with posts about how people feel sadder and/or less connected than before the pandemic. And more people are not socialising much, and are more isolated, simply being online instead.
The truth is there are no easy answers to improve people's lives.

Oh my. Another example of apparently " not using a nazi salute", this time from Bannon with Musk yesterday. Tragically, they are definitely hinting the direction of travel. Utterly shocking.

Problem here is that the Tory leader is very closely allied with those fascist types.

I can't see Labour dropping the only crutch in response to economic mistakes

Every time they're interviewed it's about the last gov

They've set that up and I can't see their loyal supporters going for it either

Yes listen to her speech at ARC, she went full on Bannon.

Considering Tories are still banging on about how Labour sold the Gold and their handling of the GFC, i think its perfectly ok to blame the state of the economy on the Tories, just 7 months in.