Rise of fascism... what, if anything, can decent people do?

[MrsBennetsPoorNerves]

Trump's victory is obviously alarming for many of us, but we've seen the rise of the far right in lots of places across Europe to a greater or lesser extent as well. History teaches us that bad things happen when decent people stand by and do nothing . So what, if anything, should those of us who are concerned about the rise of fascism be doing now?

Please note: if you're a Trump fan and don't agree that he is a fascist, this is not the thread to debate that. There are plenty of other threads where we can discuss that point, but this one is aimed at those who already accept that premise. Obviously, I can't stop you posting here, as it's an open forum and I don't get to police it, but I won't be engaging with any posts from Trump apologists on this thread because I don't want irrelevant debate to derail the main discussion.

It’s not much more than 6 months since they took over. Tories were still blaming the last Labour government at election time. Who needs a crutch?

Labour. I doubt they'd drop the it's not us it's them rhetoric as the economy stagnates and join with Conservatives as suggested by pp.

Badenoch has repeated Trump lies in the past. She isn’t someone I’d want my government allying with. And Labour using the fact that the last government were crap less than 12 months in is very different from the excuse that it was a Labour government’s fault there was a global financial crisis 14 years ago. The second is a crutch. The first isn’t.

Yes as I said I doubt loyal Labour supporters would want it.

And yes they have an issue, receipts down borrowing up. We'll see how they manage cuts.

Borrowing up over the financial year - half of which happened under the previous government. Nobody, not even Tories, should be happy with the things Badenoch and other members of the party seem happy to accept from Trump.

Tax receipts are actually high, its the borrowing that is higher still, needed to cover the 10 billion per year in NI cuts he has cost the UK.

Tory supporters will never accept this.

That's fine loyal Labour supporters think it's all great.

Even today reports said otherwise.

Eventually Labour will have to sell in cuts.

Even dyed in the wool Tories are unimpressed with Badenoch. One of them here described her as “shit” recently. The days of any chance of Tory/Labour cooperation are long gone after decent politicians like Major left parliament, leaving the handful that were left to be expelled by Johnson.

About the rise if fascism, @EasternStandard
Again, a thread which could be critical of Tory behaviour gets hijacked to all about some perceived failing of Labour.
How do you feel about the rise of fascism and what will you be doing about it (sniping at Labour isn’t going to help).

I'm responding to the suggestion they could join.

You don't have to contribute if you think it's not worth responding.

The posts show tribalism would prevent it.

No, decency would prevent it.
You can’t stop the rise of fascism by legitimising people who support fascists.

It’s nothing to do with tribalism. Cooperation requires trust.

So what, if anything, should those of us who are concerned about the rise of fascism be doing now?

You can’t worry about fascism while supporting the creation of a Palestinian state which would carry out extreme human rights abuses and subjugate women under Sharia law.

To me, if you object to fascism then you need to object to it in all its forms, not just when it involves Western countries.

That was a quote of the previous poster @EasternStandard - you're right that they are very tribal in public, I do think there are reasonable people on both sides though and I hope they are able to discuss this sort of thing together. There has been respectful collaboration before.

This was an interesting pov as stated I doubt it would happen. Posters have pretty much backed my initial thoughts up.

So, you're anti labour rather than anti fascist, right? 😂

I don't think Labour are great no. Unlike quite a few very loyal supporters. You included?

On the latter nope.

You do seem more focused on criticising Labour than condemning fascism though.

I responded to the pp on joining and said it unlikely.

I don't think that initial view was off. As a suggestion to beat fascism by the pp it's not welcome as shown.

Loyal Labour supporters wouldn't do it. Not everyone is that loyal but those who are, it'd be a no.

You keep say8ng ‘loyal Labour supporters’ as though they are the only people who find the current Tories abhorrent and more than a little fascism enabling. One Nation Tories dont want to be with them either. Or LDs. Or the Greens Or anyone really.
Meanwhike, you just criticise Labour and don’t condemn fascism. Odd.

Exactly this. The only people still supporting the Tories are frankly the most extreme. You could say the few remaining loyal Tory supporters.

All this is outside the original point. And doesn't really interest me

I picked up on the suggestion of joining and said it unlikely. And responses show that

Nothing else to say on it really

I’m pretty sure it’s anyone who doesn’t hold the same political views as @MrsBennetsPoorNerves 🙄

The OP is a supporter of a Palestinian state, which would be a state governed by Sharia law which in itself is a far right ideology. How she squares this with herself, I have no idea. I’ve asked but no response is forthcoming. If any other ‘anti fascist but pro Palestinian’ posters want to explain, I’m all ears.

Bless you, are you stalking me @wildflowers? I'm flattered. I'm afraid I have been out for the evening so I'm only just catching up. I'm so sorry that you have been hanging on my response for the last couple of hours.

And yes, I do support the idea of a Palestinian state because I believe in the principles of democracy and self determination. I don't personally think that people should only be free to govern themselves if their chosen government has my seal of approval.

Contrary to what you are desperately trying to claim, I would actually hate to see a hardline Islamic state in an independent Palestine, but that's beside the point. I still believe in the right of the Palestinian people to govern themselves. I've never really been a fan of the paternalistic assumption that people shouldn't be allowed to rule themselves because they don't know what's good for them and cannot be trusted to make sensible decisions... that's far too much like colonialism for my liking.

But in any case, I am much more sanguine about the prospects for an independent Palestinian state than you are, and I haven't actually seen any real evidence to confirm that an independent Palestine would evolve into an extremist Taliban-style state like the one you imagine. The survey that you quoted doesn't actually tell us that much at all.

Well said @MrsBennetsPoorNerves