What will labour do re: trans

[Singersong]

I've seen some really scary stuff with Keir starmer not knowing what a woman is and an article saying they class not "affirming" someone's gender identity as conversation therapy.

This topic is extremely important (if not the most) to me right now and I'm wondering if anyone knows what they plan to do? I also saw something about them disregarding much of what was in the Cass report.

Its great that you offer eating metaphorical hats, but that wont get our rights back.

Once we have lost everything itll be an uphill battle getting anything back.

My step mother will be needing care pretty soon.
How can I prevent men who say they are women from doing her intimate care?

She would rather die than have a man change her, see her naked in the shower, dress her etc. But this stupidity will see men (and we all know which type of men) doing her care because they are female now.
Her options will be, wait for me to visit, I can maybe do two visits a day, only maybe. I give up work and become her permanent carer, which does not appeal or she gets no care. Because saying you want female or women only carers will be transphobic and just beeee kiiiiind.

You ok with your mothers going through the worry, will it be a woman carer today or that other "woman"

Yep - 44,000 breaches of single sex wards in a year due to resourcing.
Far far bigger issue than a trans person on a single sex ward.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mixed-sex-wards-breach-nhs-streeting-b2534608.html

I work with some who are self ID-ing sexual predatory types.

Some get kicks out of having a catheter inserted into their penis, stating it's the closest experience to PIV they will get.

Some aggressively challenge a person for mis-gendering them when they were neither being spoken to nor about.

Some make no effort to continue 'looking like a woman' but insist on their very male appearance being referred to as 'she'. Even a child in the street would instantly misgender them and be at risk of violence for that.

Some claim they have been transing to female for 2 decades despite no gender affirming treatment other than wearing their hair long and wearing skirts and dresses. And that being trans means they do not pose a risk to anyone.

Some want to live their life quietly identifying as a woman. To hide in relative obscurity as the person they believe they are. But in my experience, this is perhaps 2 out of 10 MtoF people I work directly with.

The others are using this as a smokescreen to hide behind - they believe that 'women' are not sexual offenders and therefore they are safe to be in women's spaces. The very spaces they have previously committed their crimes against women and children. The spaces those victims go to to be safe from them. It becomes parallel offending by allowing it and we are simply blindly letting it happen

So, I don't agree with self-ID, I don't agree with GRC's. I do believe there are genuine mtf people who do want to live their lives in peace, to use women's spaces safely and with respect. But sex matters! Biology in healthcare matters. A man is rarely going to need to see a gynaecologist (specialist imaging for anal cancers aside). A woman is very rarely going to need to see a proctologist. By denying biological sex we are harming the individual more than anyone wants to accept as they rush into affirming behaviours because we might be denying to truth of their medical condition.

I also believe there are a huge number of modern mtf who are ruining decades of work that has come before by these genuine people simply to indulge in their own perverted belief system.

My research leads me to believe this would be worse under Labour as they pledge to “modernise, simplify, and reform the intrusive and outdated gender recognition law”. Simplifying it to me means there will be less need to demonstrate active and prolonged investment in living life as a woman, more freedom of choice to flip between the 2 depending on the day of the week or mood of the individual. More confusion in society.

While my beliefs may align more fully with labour on the majority of things. Biological sex and gender identity is a hill I will die on to protect my family, my children and my friends. Because I see the extreme believers every day. And there are a lot who are psychologically deluded.

But women make up 51%of the population. Most of the women I know when its explained, do not want men in our spaces, sports, rape crisis centres, prisons etc. So he can upset 51% of the population to appease somewhere around 2% *

The math doesnt add up.

• 2% is a rough guess, I'm not sure anyone knows how many trans people there are. I think if you include non binary, pan and the 764 other genders theres maybe 5% population wise.

Its great that you offer eating metaphorical hats, but that wont get our rights back

Exactly it’s a bit late then. For women but dds too

PP never said it did mean giving up single sex spaces.
She said trans people need support and it needs to be "both/and" not "either/or"

On another thread I saw some posters get quite irate that trans patients might get "special treatment" by being given their own hospital room to get round the wards issue.

It really feels like for some there is no other solution than enforcing a strict gender binary based on sex and that feels to me regressive and unnecessary.

Single sex and third spaces where needed for dignity and safety (of both women and trans people).

And before anyone says it, we don't need a list

A list?

I'm all for third spaces, I can see already that they will be useful.
I also see that eventually they will just become another mans space.

Sure for two or three weeks,it'll be fabulous. Carers with opposite sex carees? Is that a word? Any person who doesnt care what sex they share with. Then assaults will happen, women will be less inclined to use them. Rapes will happen, women will be less inclined to use them. And by my reckoning in less than a year, they will be men only. Officially mixed sex, sure, but reality,well we know.

But for sure, bring in the third spaces everywhere.

There’s no point in waffling for eternity someone will have to say which spaces and how at some point

Apparently we’d know when the GE was called, or the manifesto was released

But no

Third spaces? Sure no problem if women get single sex spaces back and sports too. Now they can convince TRAs and Labour

Yep, there's no cure for stupid but hey ho.

I think the problem is, this issue has been seen very much as a fringe issue. Factions fighting each other. It's been mentioned in the press and JKR has brought it into the light but it's not really in the mainstream.

I'm sure if the majority of fathers knew that their daughters no longer had a right to get changed in the swimming baths or at school, without a man present, they'd want to do something about it.

Hows that denigrating anyone for the choices they make (out of terrible options) going for you.

Heres an idea, if you want people to vote "the correct way" maybe dont call them stupid.

Frustratingly you are likely right.

How fucking annoying that women cant just ask for something and at least get a hearing about it.
Nope we have to wait for the menfolk to catch up and realise it affects their women

Are you seriously saying a transwoman who has been on hormones and has large breasts should be in a male changing room?

I know/know of three trans people. Two are men>women and one woman>man.

First time I met the latter in autumn 2019 when they were in process of transitioning. Their appearance and androgynous clothing caused some comment amongst colleagues. They were interviewed on the radio, in a professional role not becuase they were trans, and I would not have been able to tell other than becuase the name/role tallied. Met them in person last year; same.

Are you seriously saying a transwoman who has been on hormones and has large breasts should be in a male changing room?

Of course. Unless you think gender non conformity is so wrong that you must possess the stereotypical appearance of your sex to use spaces of your own sex.

Frankly, they can go wherever they choose besides the female changing room. Because they are not female. Even with their "large breasts".

@CassieMaddox
PP never said it did mean giving up single sex spaces.
She said trans people need support and it needs to be "both/and" not "either/or"

PP said that genuine trans people needed their rights to be protected. What rights were they if not to use single sex spaces? Other rights to be free from discrimination, harassment & violence etc. should obviously apply equally to lovely genuine trans people and also shitty and predatory trans people. Unless you've suddenly gone a bit right wing on us.

That's your biggest concern about this election is it? Not climate change, fuel dependency, homelessness, NHS, education, infrastructure, fair taxation... etc

Yes it certainly is.

You are going to find there are carers with opposite sex carees already....because there aren't enough carers 🙄

Yes. Apparently the Tories were going to make it clear "what a woman is"
But no. Its unfortunate. Luckily for me it's not my only voting issue which makes things easier.

I think its entirely possible she doesn't care how "stupid people" vote

This shaming people because its their fault we got brexit, because people can't own their own democratic choices has stopped working imo.

If someone wants to go and vote for a misogynist dictator because "at least he knows what a woman is" they can knock themselves out. I'm not trying to persuade them otherwise.

This is the 'most important' topic for you. Really?

You don't think the cost of living, NHS, social care, schools, utility bills, housing, Brexit and the environment are more important than what is really a niche issue that has no impact whatsoever to the majority of people's lives?

I smell an agenda here...

Though there's certainly a case for a third space. After all, we all deserve respect.

Great, they will be able to use third spaces.

And the list? What list

Oh my gosh.
This debate is not as simple as "single sex spaces" and you know that.

Someone trans shouldn't be forced into "spaces for their sex" as it won't always be safe for them. There needs to be concern for their safety as much as womens safety. Which is why I support third spaces.

Someone trans doesn't deserve all and sundry knowing about their medical condition and treatment. Therefore they shouldn't be forced to be "out" as trans in social situations unless they want to be.

Someone trans certainly doesn't need to be named and shamed on the Internet and it implied they are sexual or child abusers because they are trans. Yet that happens all the time.

These are all trans rights issues that are nothing to do with womens rights. There are ways to deal with this without negatively impacting women.