What will labour do re: trans

[Singersong]

I've seen some really scary stuff with Keir starmer not knowing what a woman is and an article saying they class not "affirming" someone's gender identity as conversation therapy.

This topic is extremely important (if not the most) to me right now and I'm wondering if anyone knows what they plan to do? I also saw something about them disregarding much of what was in the Cass report.

Then you vote however you see fit.

I think the backbone of two sexes is needed. No more 867 genders.

How will you define male violence when men are legally women?
How can you defend rape and assault victims being forced to use the wrong pronouns for their abuser/rapist?

Labour have said there will be no change to spending plans in place already. So there will be no more money. Those crumbling services will continue to crumble.

And in the interview with Kier above - he’s absolutely in favour of female only spaces and has campaigned and worked on violence against women for years.

After the cass review use of puberty blockers was temporarily halted for 3 months. IIRC because the election had already been called the current govt were unable to take measures that would bind the next. Labour need to decide to make that permanent or it will lapse.

And you're basically right about the GRC process. The plan is to require a medical diagnosis. This is still too lax from my point of view. Just as dodgy private companies popped up to prescribe kids puberty blockers and hormones, it is likely private doctors will dish out diagnoses of dysphoria for cash. And more fundamentally the idea that a man can be a legal woman, but only if being a man makes him really sad, is just stupid. It says nothing about his conduct, risk level, attitude to women, history of violence etc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UuMIVbLxmoY

And here is Kier’s view. I think he’s as good on women’s rights, if not better, than the other parties.

Labour have spent the last few years trying to avoid this issue - which I do understand as their voter base is totally split on it so any wrong move in either direction could cost them the election.

My prediction is that if they get into power they will continue to avoid it. Maybe tinker around the edges of the GRA like the Tories did, so it looks like they've done something.

I think (hope) the Cass report has already put the brakes on the medical transition of children/teens, and I don't think any party would dare to reverse that as they can probably see the looming medical scandal.

I'm gonna vote Labour as I'm desperate to get the Tories out, and just cross my fingers that they quietly go along with society moving to a more sensible position on gender issues and particularly on transing of children and young people.

Nope, labour plan to get rid of the panel that oversees applicants.

And make it so that one GP can sign off your gender wants.

That's it, no safeguarding at all.

I think this is where hyperbole muddies the water. I’ve worked with trans gender people and the vast majority are genuinely suffering and genuinely need to live an authentic life as a different gender to the one assigned. The trouble is the few aggressive and predatory trans women make the headlines. So it’s both/and. Not either/or. We need to protect women’s rights AND we need to protect the rights of those that are genuinely struggling with gender identity issues. The difficulty is figuring out the genuine from the arseholes that dress as a woman to commit or get away with crimes. Fortunately they are actually rare.

I think Labour are going to go down self id route hard and fast. But they have promised consultation. And we have so many active, informed and amazing women's rights & children's rights & LGB right groups up and running now. So the resistance is ready and we are all far more well informed than ever before. We have media time & space now - unthinkable just a few years ago.

I'd say to everyone- get connected with a group, get vocal, get active. The next few years are going to be immense & very important.

No debate is over.

Surely you're far more likely to end up with men on a mixed ward becuase of bedspace issues than another patient being trans?

My Mother was on such a ward after a cardiac issue c2009. In spite of constant promises to end the practice I believe it still happens.

Umm yes but he believes men with a 'woman ' gender identity are also female.

How can you have both a single sex space for women (he says safe space btw which is the sex fudge they came up with recently) and also allow men in?
Schrodingers spaces?

So rare theres a long thread about things that never happen.

‎https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread?page=34&reply=134227024

I think it's too important to hope that it only has some tinkering around the edges.
I do believe that once we have lost everything, itll be an immense battle to get it back.

This whole thing has made headlines in the last few years, but it's been ongoing for more than 20 years. The people who kept it secret, had backroom deals, are mostly nameless, will not want to lose now. They will kick up a real shit fit if they dont get what they've been planning for for so long.
But you do you.

Listening to some Labour MP this morning when asked about what should be framed as sex based rights he diverted to another issue

They won’t talk about it and don’t get it. This is their main approach, ignore women

If I ever get this done, itll be the first time in 34 years I've been in hospital. So I've no idea. Still stuck with an AGP or a man who knows he's a man???

Trans identified men aka "trans women"are men who are trying (quite successfully) to use some invented "most special & most vulnerable" status to erode women's boundaries & access women's single sex spaces - which effectively eliminates women & girls single sex spaces & legal rights.

They could very easily continue to use the mens single sex spaces - which are for all men - but they insist that is a hate crime & they must be free to destroy women's spaces instead.

Women who oppose this are deemed to be hate filled bigots.

What about this doesn't bother you?

I just don't accept that "protecting the rights of trans people" means giving them the automatic right to opposite sex spaces. People can present how they want and have whatever gender identity they want, but we have single SEX spaces, not single GENDER spaces.

I whole heartedly agree. I never even considered it as an issue until I joined mumsnet.

But it is an issue now.
It was an issue 20 years ago but you didnt hear about it because women were threatened and faced violence for mentioning it.

So now you know about it you think we should just brush it under the carpet?
Pretend men are in fact women when science says that can never be true?
Just shut up about it?
Keep letting children be harmed?

Great stuff, dont come crying to us when you finally realise what it means to you and your mother, your sister, your daughter.

We told you.

They have stated clearly that changing gender will require a diagnosis.

No, it doesn’t. I didn’t say that it does. And Labour have stated clearly that they will protect single sex spaces. NHS wards for example and Kier made the point that at the moment there are very few single sex wards and this needs rectifying.

Kier addresses it on the link above.

You seem to know quite a lot about the issues for someone claiming they don't know what Labour plan to do.

If you don't believe their statements that they plan to keep spaces for biological women only and keep gender dysphoria as a criteria for getting a GRC, and if this genuinely is your main "womens rights" issue then don't vote for them?

Which spaces will be single sex?

And you can see why they might avoid it. There are some black and white points that they have addressed - biological sex and single sex spaces. The rest is very nuanced and less clear. It needs a proper grown up conversation but at the moment it’s a dog whistle and if they use a phrase that can be taken out of context either side will end up making a big deal about it and MPs have received threats and all sorts of abuse. It’s a very very divisive subject that Kier has said he wants to tackle without the toxic rhetoric. Fair enough. I think they are probably the party I trust most to consider women’s rights. Kier spent years helping to tackle male to female violence and it’s clear he feels passionately about that. He’s maybe struggled like the rest of us to tread the very fine line between both sides but I think he’s genuine in wanting a solution that doesn’t erode women’s rights. If they get in and I’m wrong I will come back and eat my metaphorical hat.

@Noddedoffagain have you read the JKR article? It highlights that Labour are firmly on the side of the toxic rhetoric.