Page 4 | God is the creator so who created god

Shareornotwhocares · 2022-08-13T22:18:07+00:00

I’ll nail my colors to the mast first….. I’m not a believer but I also know currently science does not have all the answers to the origins of life However I have known Christian’s who believe in god because it answers the two questions we can’t yet answer - where did we come from and what happens when we die of comfort is gained from that then fine. however none had got anything plausible to say to the answer to the thread title - if god created us then who created god. It just pushes the unknown back one step in the chain.

rainbowdaz · 15/08/2022 09:05

In my view, it's also why most religion frown on suicide. If heaven is as lovely as we are told, why wouldn't you want to get there asap? Cue, mass suicide. Putting the clause in there that suicide is a sin, so therefore precludes you going to heaven serves a purpose.

Well, most christians would be compassionate as Raven said. We had a suicide in the family, there was only talk of prayer for that person. God is supposed to be omniscient, omnibenevolent and rational, so He wouldn't be condemning people to hell for mental health issues or psychosis even if it's a 'sin'.

It's seen as destroying Gods creation to kill your self, and possibly greed to die to get to heaven. Although I don't agree there, it would be terrible to advocate people killing themselves at every hurdle to get to heaven, so I can't be mad at that, in all truth.

Anyway, religion causes many problems when taken to extremes, but it also has benefits. It gets people through hard times. Even as a non-believer, I found the idea of the afterlife comforting. Faith gets people through hard times so they dont have to resort to suicide.

Alexandra2001 · 15/08/2022 09:13

orbitalcrisis · 14/08/2022 17:34

Why does the universe need a beginning or end? fd God can be infinite, why can't the universe?

We know accurately what happened from 10 seconds after the Big Bang, the only thing that existed at this point was Hydrogen. You can call Hydrogen God if you wish, but it still won't make the rest of it real.

We don't even know, with any certainty, what happened a 1000 years ago.

People even argue about how WW1 started!

What ever we think happened billions of years ago, it is a theory and constantly evolves/changes with more knowledge.

I think a better question is why people have the need for spiritual fulfilment, why have we, throughout the ages, wanted a "God" a religion to follow?

Many religions are 1000s of years old.

If we are just a collection of cells & energy, i d have thought we wouldn't need this.

Alexandra2001 · 15/08/2022 09:21

user1471453601 · 15/08/2022 03:44

It strikes me that faith is a pretty good get out clause in religion. You cannot really have religion without faith. And faith needs no logical explanation. Indeed, faith depends on there not being a logical explantation.

In my view, it's also why most religion frown on suicide. If heaven is as lovely as we are told, why wouldn't you want to get there asap? Cue, mass suicide. Putting the clause in there that suicide is a sin, so therefore precludes you going to heaven serves a purpose.

guess I'm just a deluded atheist, though.

Doesn't everything need a certain amount of "faith" ? i have the faith that my brakes will work when that lorry pulls out in front of me! or my bicycle frame wont snap in half as i hurtle down that Alpine Col.

As for suicide, as i understand, life is a gift from God, killing yourself is the equivalent of throwing it back in "its" face, an insult if you like.

What i don't like about the various theories on life's origins, is the faith that life began out of chaos and gradually evolved into order and balance - just take a look at our planet? the only one, so far of the billions out there that can support complex life, with an abundance of very useful stuff we can all use.

btw i'm not religious at all but my Mum was and she had a calm and wisdom about her that i've never seen before - i just wonder where it came from, her character or her religion?

drbuzzaro · 15/08/2022 10:30

MarshaMelrose · 15/08/2022 03:31

I always remember Marie in Everybody Loves Raymond telling Robert he shouldn't think about it because it'd give him tummy ache! She was very sensible.

People who scoff over where God came from because there is no god, equally can't explain where the universe started. All the blather about time but not as we know it is just to say "we don't know what started the very first universe.“ Scientists always act like they know everything but covid has proved that a) they don't; b) what they do know, another scientist will disagree; and c) you'll always be able to find a scientist to pay to say any old crap you want them to.

yeah what have scientists ever done for us? 🙄

waltzingparrot · 15/08/2022 11:28

I used to drive myself mad with this question when I was 14/15 but I'm at peace with it now. Know one knows the answer, but I've come to my own conclusion that we're here by design rather than chance. I'm happy with that.

djdkdkddkek · 15/08/2022 13:23

100%
I don’t even engage with the ‘just curious’ type questions anymore because it’s only a veiled way to make out Christians are stupid
because they don’t actually say anything to/about other religious groups because they’d be called a bigot

but mocking, undermining and trying to “catch out with science” those who follow Christianity is seen as fair game

drbuzzaro · 15/08/2022 14:13

djdkdkddkek · 15/08/2022 13:23

100%
I don’t even engage with the ‘just curious’ type questions anymore because it’s only a veiled way to make out Christians are stupid
because they don’t actually say anything to/about other religious groups because they’d be called a bigot

but mocking, undermining and trying to “catch out with science” those who follow Christianity is seen as fair game

Christianity is the dominant religion in this country. and there have been posts and threads on here criticising other religions. I even once saw someone complaining people on mumsnet never insulted Christianity the way they insult Islam.

Vincitveritas · 15/08/2022 14:36

@drbuzzaro Well, you wouldn't know Christianity was the dominant religion in this country! Some of the stuff I've read here and on other forums is quite frankly borderline hate speech.

Vincitveritas · 15/08/2022 16:10

Mischance · 15/08/2022 09:02

have direct experience of the presence of God in our lives - it is interesting how believers use this and similar phrases, but when tackled on what this experience consisted of cite things that agnostics or non-believers might attribute to things other than god, so it is a bit of an empty argument. It does not demonstrate the existence of god, it simply proves that this person interprets the experience as coming from a god.

I don't understand why atheists insist on proof of what we believe in. It's as if deep down they really want to believe too. The aggression and arguments are so unnecessary. And yes, it may be controversial but I believe we do share the same God with Jews and Muslims, as a pp up thread pointed out.

The Christian religion is often misunderstood. The church is not a building or set of buildings, but a community of believers. You may not agree with the Catholic Church but they remain the largest charitable organisation in the world. The Christian faith has inspired so much charity work, helping those in need including the destitute, widows, orphans, the sick and the disabled. It's had a significant effect on music, art, literature, architecture, scientific discovery, modern education and human rights.

The Church will always attract those who seek power and influence over others, much the same as politics. They don't practice what they preach, they are the 'wolves in sheep's clothing' that Jesus warned about. He was always rebuking the Pharisees for their hypocritical lifestyles, false teachings and over emphasis of the Law. God should be the primary focus, not rules and rituals. Religion is man's attempt to have communion with God.

Sorry for going off topic.

drbuzzaro · 15/08/2022 16:17

Vincitveritas · 15/08/2022 14:36

@drbuzzaro Well, you wouldn't know Christianity was the dominant religion in this country! Some of the stuff I've read here and on other forums is quite frankly borderline hate speech.

considering christianity is the biggest religious group, the Queen is the head of the cofe, there are bishops in the house of lords, schools on england and wales have to have broadly Christian worship, and the uk only fully got marriage equality and abortion rights twobyears ago thanks to the fundies in thr DUP I think it's hard to miss. but some people saying things you don't like on mumsnet clearly yrumps all that.

faretheewell · 15/08/2022 18:01

thanks to the fundies in thr DUP

People often seem to have a problem with lumping moderate world views in with more extreme ones yet in actuality they are worlds apart. It's akin to lumping people that are prepared to use antibiotics to treat some infections with the habitual overusers of antibiotics and also the people who would refuse appropriate antibiotic treatment at all costs.

havetochangethis · 15/08/2022 18:08

I've always liked 'Answer', a short science fiction story that attempts to answer this question: calumchace.com/favourite-relevant-sf-short-story/

drbuzzaro · 15/08/2022 18:13

faretheewell · 15/08/2022 18:01

thanks to the fundies in thr DUP

People often seem to have a problem with lumping moderate world views in with more extreme ones yet in actuality they are worlds apart. It's akin to lumping people that are prepared to use antibiotics to treat some infections with the habitual overusers of antibiotics and also the people who would refuse appropriate antibiotic treatment at all costs.

pp said Christians, didn't specify what kind. and these extremists were responsible for repressive laws and were in power in ni until very recently

faretheewell · 15/08/2022 18:27

pp said Christians, didn't specify what kind. and these extremists were responsible for repressive laws and were in power in ni until very recently

Indeed and you chose to reference the examples of more extreme views of the past although the church is changing and has changed - just like every other organised institution. Would you judge current medical practices based on references to outdated Victorian 'treatments' ? Or current law and punishments based on references to that in medieval times. No, you simply put it all into context.

Octopuscrazy · 15/08/2022 18:33

A question which has puzzled philosophers for centuries!

For me, God exists outside the realm of cause and effect because God created cause and effect.

In the same way a born blind person cannot comprehend vision, or a born deaf person cannot comprehend hearing, God cannot be comprehended by us because we do not possess the sense to allow us to understand it.

We have no field of reference to things outside cause and effect and so we cannot explain it in human terms thus we have to have faith and believe and accept it even though I accept it is difficult because it is such an abstract thought.

drbuzzaro · 15/08/2022 18:35

faretheewell · 15/08/2022 18:27

pp said Christians, didn't specify what kind. and these extremists were responsible for repressive laws and were in power in ni until very recently

Indeed and you chose to reference the examples of more extreme views of the past although the church is changing and has changed - just like every other organised institution. Would you judge current medical practices based on references to outdated Victorian 'treatments' ? Or current law and punishments based on references to that in medieval times. No, you simply put it all into context.

the poster I was responding to claimed you wouldn't think Christianity is the dominant religion in the UK. I was simply saying that the DUP being in power and denying people their rights until recently suggests otherwise.

and marriage equality and abortion equality were only legal in ni from 2020 so yeah technically that's "of the past" but hardly medieval times and many still believe they should be illegal

LostForWordsagain · 15/08/2022 18:38

God is just collective consciousness something that runs through and through to connect humans and those that created them

LostForWordsagain · 15/08/2022 18:39

It was possibly difficult to understand the concept so easier to make God this ‘individual’ who created everything

faretheewell · 15/08/2022 18:41

and marriage equality and abortion equality were only legal in ni from 2020 so yeah technically that's "of the past" but hardly medieval times and many still believe they should be illegal

There's many Christians who would disagree with the DUP's viewpoints and openly say this. So why judge them for what the DUP were responsible for? It would be like me judging any ordinary member of the British public for Boris Johnson's actions simply because both are British.

LostForWordsagain · 15/08/2022 18:45

djdkdkddkek · 15/08/2022 13:23

100%
I don’t even engage with the ‘just curious’ type questions anymore because it’s only a veiled way to make out Christians are stupid
because they don’t actually say anything to/about other religious groups because they’d be called a bigot

but mocking, undermining and trying to “catch out with science” those who follow Christianity is seen as fair game

I never can understand the concept of using science to disprove religious theories. Surely they could be one and the same ?
If we were created then science would have played a part

drbuzzaro · 15/08/2022 18:51

faretheewell · 15/08/2022 18:41

and marriage equality and abortion equality were only legal in ni from 2020 so yeah technically that's "of the past" but hardly medieval times and many still believe they should be illegal

There's many Christians who would disagree with the DUP's viewpoints and openly say this. So why judge them for what the DUP were responsible for? It would be like me judging any ordinary member of the British public for Boris Johnson's actions simply because both are British.

ffs I'm not judging other Christians. I'm pointing out that Christianity, in general, of no particular type, has an impact on people in the UK. to counter the posters assertion that you wouldn't think Christianity is the dominant religion in the UK. stop putting words in my mouth

Carpy88999 · 15/08/2022 18:56

drbuzzaro · 15/08/2022 18:51

ffs I'm not judging other Christians. I'm pointing out that Christianity, in general, of no particular type, has an impact on people in the UK. to counter the posters assertion that you wouldn't think Christianity is the dominant religion in the UK. stop putting words in my mouth

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But the hate speech... 😂

PupInAPram · 15/08/2022 18:56

If there is a God, he/she is absolutely rubbish at their job.

Featuredcreature · 15/08/2022 19:00

Well nobody knows and if they pretend to they are talking shit. It's why I'm agnostic, from my very limited understanding older religions like Buddhism seem to describe reality better than the abrahamic.

I don't think the big bang theory accurately presents what happened at all. Give me one miracle and I will describe the rest... That doesn't work really

BigFatLiar · 15/08/2022 19:05

PupInAPram · 15/08/2022 18:56

If there is a God, he/she is absolutely rubbish at their job.

Depends what you think his job is, not much of a practising Christian these days but I always thought it was a case of hear's the world get on with it and let's see what you make of it.

Is there a god, don't know, hope so. I don't think the idea of God is any crazier than the universe popping into existence or always being here. Its something we can't really explain. In the end though we'll all find out if there's a god and life after death. Bit sad if it's all a bit pointless.