God is the creator so who created god

[Shareornotwhocares]

I’ll nail my colors to the mast first….. I’m not a believer but I also know currently science does not have all the answers to the origins of life

However

I have known Christian’s who believe in god because it answers the two questions we can’t yet answer - where did we come from and what happens when we die

of comfort is gained from that then fine.

however none had got anything plausible to say to the answer to the thread title - if god created us then who created god. It just pushes the unknown back one step in the chain.

Why does the universe need a beginning or end? fd God can be infinite, why can't the universe?

We know accurately what happened from 10 seconds after the Big Bang, the only thing that existed at this point was Hydrogen. You can call Hydrogen God if you wish, but it still won't make the rest of it real.

JustAnotherPoster00, Christians did not “invent” God out of ignorance of astrophysics!
Many of the 2.3 billion Christians alive today, including me, have direct experience of the presence of God in our lives. That’s what converted me from to atheism to Christianity in the first place.
I’m not some scientifically illiterate tribeswoman, I’m a retired hospital doctor.
We know the Universe had a beginning - 13.8 billion years ago, with the Big Bang. The laws of physics state that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely converted from one form to another.
So science actually has no explanation for how this event occurred, or how anything exists at all - logically there should be nothing; no matter, no energy, no space/time continuum.
Science describes the functioning of the universe as it currently exists, and can only theorise about its origins.
Christians believe the big bang was God’s moment of creation of the universe - or multiverse, as it may be. As God is beyond/outside of space time, He is not necessarily subject to its physical laws. Nor can we expect to understand His composition or origin in terms of our known universe.
What it boils down to is that somehow, in defiance of physics, an entire universe appeared out of nothing. You either admit that science had no idea how that happened, but you won’t entertain any religious explanation, or you accept that it was an act of God.

I also know where we came from and what happens when we die. We came from our parents and when we die our bodies rot unless we are preserved in some way. Our consciousness was a result of the workings our brain, that also rots. 'I think therefore I am', becomes 'I can no longer think as I am brain dead so I am nothing'.

@Babdoc And these experiences are..?

@Babdoc

You either admit that science had no idea how that happened, but you won’t entertain any religious explanation, or you accept that it was an act of God.

Or you can simply say we don't know yet. That doesn't mean we won't ever know, There is simply no need to insert whichever mystical explanation takes your fancy.

Of course the universe can also be infinite, but then why are people asking such questions as this thread title? We either accept that both opinions are as valid and uncertain as each other, or we should stop arguing over one of them. At the end of the day, nobody knows. We won't know during this lifetime either.

There is simply no need to insert whichever mystical explanation takes your fancy.

But why wouldn't be people allowed to?

If we go back to as early as we can explain, we find a question mark. Some choose to fill it with 'we don't know', others choose to fill it with God. Where's the harm in it?

And I mean on a personal level, I know all about the evils of organised religion (I'm actually against it myself). But for me, or you, as a single human being with no influence on a global level, what's the harm in choosing one over the other?

I never said there was an issue with it or it shouldn't be allowed. People are free to believe whatever they want but when it comes to the origins of the universe I use Hitchens razor.

"what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

A god of the gaps argument deserves no respect.

A god of the gaps argument deserves no respect.

Or disrespect. It's a belief not an argument.

A little old lady by the name of Marigold Petuia Wattlebottom created God.
Accidentally. She knitted him, merely as a way of using up her rather bloated yarnstash and as a way of passing a Sunday afternoon while her husband, George, made his way swiftly towards the nineteenth hole.

Her grandson, a bright but rather untidy lad by the name of Sebastian, had left his chemistry set out during his weekly sleepover. Marigold, who had become a little short-sightee, but could still knit just fine thankyou, as her fingers had grown accustomed to the feel of the yarn and the rhythm of the needles, went to tidy it away and there was an unfortunate accident.

Marigold suffered no greater injury than the loss of both eyebrows but her recently knitted creation not only rose up and recited the entire history of the universe, backwards, but informed Marigold that he was in fact, and always had been, THE one.

Marigold has often wondered if George had slipped something in her Sanatogen, but with little evidence to back up this theory, we can only assume knitted God was telling the truth.

Ah, you say—but who created Marigold? Marigold of course grew from a seed, planted in a neat garden in the parish of Saint Brigid. Now, you may already know that Saint Brigid is the patron saint of hens. Indeed it was Brigid's chicken shit that fertilised the garden which gave birth to Marigold.

The chicken shit came from a hen by the name of Irene. Irene was born of an egg laid by Imelda. Imelda was ... ah but that's another story.

Absolutely, does my head in!

@tickticksnooze Have you ever died? Please enlighten us as to what's on the other side.

In full agreement there, and we're most certainly not stupid. Churches up and down the country are full of Doctors, Lawyers, people running successful businesses etc.

Could not agree more @djdkdkddkek. Everyone picks on christians, speaking as an atheist. You get people who think they've just debunked religion by using 10 year old's logic.

our brains cannot comprehend anything bar a beginning and an end, it is our own ignorance and lack of intellect that makes it so. The infinity of things, an alternative is a circularity of things, or an infinite parallel of things; the brains we have aren't advanced enough to ride that wave. The theoretical physicist Michio Kaku when asked about the meaning of life, we won't figure that out so in the meantime, live it and make sure that you make it the best possible thing for every other living organism that has life i.e. try and leave this world a better place for having you in it. If that changes one other living creatures path for the best then you have done a good job.

What it boils down to is that somehow, in defiance of physics, an entire universe appeared out of nothing. You either admit that science had no idea how that happened

This simply is not true. Science offered perfectly adequate explanation for this decades ago.

So science actually has no explanation for how this event occurred

Again, completely untrue

or how anything exists at all - logically there should be nothing; no matter, no energy, no space/time continuum

Err no. There's nothing 'logical' about this claim whatsoever. You yourself referenced this -

The laws of physics state that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely converted from one form to another

Which you don't need to think particularly long or deeply about in order to realise why your 'should be nothing' claim is illogical.

Our universe came about via 'a' big bang, not 'the' big bang, merely the latest big bang. The source of the matter in our current universe is the universe that preceded ours, there's no requirement whatsoever for a 'creator' to somehow magic it into existence.

Humans really struggle to understand time in any format that isn't strictly linear with a beginning and an end. This is why we are preoccupied with how and 'when' our universe 'began' and struggle to grasp that our particular big bang is not the first such event, and therefor not the origin of all matter, nor the beginning of 'time', and why there is no requirement for any sort of outside agent such as a creator to bring about the existence of our universe.

Science has perfectly working hypotheses regarding what happens with stars at the end of their cycles, which also fits with hypothesis about the creation and nature of black holes, which also fits with hypothesis regarding the 'birth' and 'demise' of universes, so your claim that you have to admit that science had no idea how that happened is nonsense, and there is no compulsion whatsoever for anyone to accept that it was an act of God.

What you are witnessing is nothing more than a quirk of the fact that the predominant religion in the English-speaking world is Christianity, so the majority of religious people you will encounter on English speaking forums will be Christian.

As it happens, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are pretty much the same religion in any case, so yes, the dismissal of Christian 'god' and Christian insistence on the existence of a creator being also covers Muslims and Jews who believe much the same thing. If a Muslim or a Jew chose to discuss the matter with me, as an atheist I would be arguing my position no differently with them as I do with Christians. That goes for anyone of any religion or faith who posits that the universe came about via the actions of a creator being. The religion is neither here nor there. You could insist the universe was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care, and I'd still argue that you are incorrect.

It's not about mocking or dismissing Christians in particular, although their apparent sense of being singled out for persecution is somewhat ironic given their insistence that their particular religion is pre-eminent. I mean, their God is the one and only God right?, so surely it is Christians that the naysayers should be concentrating on? No?

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I always remember Marie in Everybody Loves Raymond telling Robert he shouldn't think about it because it'd give him tummy ache! She was very sensible.

People who scoff over where God came from because there is no god, equally can't explain where the universe started. All the blather about time but not as we know it is just to say "we don't know what started the very first universe.“ Scientists always act like they know everything but covid has proved that a) they don't; b) what they do know, another scientist will disagree; and c) you'll always be able to find a scientist to pay to say any old crap you want them to.

It strikes me that faith is a pretty good get out clause in religion. You cannot really have religion without faith. And faith needs no logical explanation. Indeed, faith depends on there not being a logical explantation.

In my view, it's also why most religion frown on suicide. If heaven is as lovely as we are told, why wouldn't you want to get there asap? Cue, mass suicide. Putting the clause in there that suicide is a sin, so therefore precludes you going to heaven serves a purpose.

guess I'm just a deluded atheist, though.

Wanting to commit suicide is generally seen as a serious mental illness or a result of trauma. Most religious communities are very compassionate to those suffering from suicidal thoughts. Faith is also about seeing beauty, truth and goodness in the here and now, living the moment fully and having hope for the future.

@user1471453601 You have a tendency to want to see all faith as negative, when faith can bring joy, contentment and a loving community to share those joys and sorrows with.

Christians aren't the only ones who believe their God is the only one, that's the whole point of religion, isn't it? As long as they're not telling me I'm going to hell, they can believe in God, no problem! XDownwiththissortofthingX

It's definitely a fair topic if it's posed as a general philosophical question but the OP stated christians. Just christians? It's not necessary to single them out. If you're brave, add the other Abrahamic religions.

There is definitely an attitude in society that's it's ok to ridicule Christian beliefs and use straw men to make them all sound stupid. It isn't the case for Muslims and Jews who are respected, at least outwardly, since nobody wants to be called anti-Semitic or islamophobic.

We can have debate, but it's annoying when christians are used as a shield.

have direct experience of the presence of God in our lives - it is interesting how believers use this and similar phrases, but when tackled on what this experience consisted of cite things that agnostics or non-believers might attribute to things other than god, so it is a bit of an empty argument. It does not demonstrate the existence of god, it simply proves that this person interprets the experience as coming from a god.

Just to add - I respect people's religious beliefs, as long as they do not involve cruelty to others as so many religions do. But it is important to distinguish between faith and fact.