God is the creator so who created god

[Shareornotwhocares]

I’ll nail my colors to the mast first….. I’m not a believer but I also know currently science does not have all the answers to the origins of life

However

I have known Christian’s who believe in god because it answers the two questions we can’t yet answer - where did we come from and what happens when we die

of comfort is gained from that then fine.

however none had got anything plausible to say to the answer to the thread title - if god created us then who created god. It just pushes the unknown back one step in the chain.

If there was no god humans would have had to have made one up.

@Liebig I thought you might pick up on that 😄. You seem very sure of what is true and what isn't. Nobody has all the answers. The Bible doesn't put a date on the creation of the universe and I don't believe it was created 7000 years ago, that's a common misconception. Science and religion don't have to always be at odds. The universe might be indifferent but God certainly isn't.

I’ve not really made a point on commenting on the validity of the Bible and the creation of existence. Just highlighting that it is not logical to ascribe it to another unfalsifiable and unexplained phenomena.

As I say, we don’t have a ready explanation for how reality came about, nor do we need one. It can be Jehovah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or just random chance from a cyclical Big Bang system.

Science and religion are basically totally separate systems now. Whereas in the past the religious leaders would dictate how the world worked based on their screed, today we have empiricism to do that. Religion is then focused on how one lives their life, not the mechanics of how everything works.

If my car breaks down, I consult a mechanic,
not a preacher. If my grasp on my place in the world breaks down, I consult that preacher, not a man of science.

God is source of all things
I believe in source

I don’t know whether this thread is a “ah ha ha look you can’t say who created god so I’ve clearly stumped you” or if it’s genuine…

Oh, the age of the Earth thing is very much relegated to the Young Earth Creationists who take quite literally a lot of the text to come to 6-10k years. That is clearly not valid, but given I was debating these matters twenty years ago online and such forums and websites relating to the matter still exist, I’d say it’s not died out for those diehard believers.

But then I also know some non-believers with amazingly clueless takes on the world and how it came about too, so this isn’t exclusive to any one religion.

Nothing new under the sun. There will always be obnoxious people on either side with gotchas that probably seem quite cutting… if you were 13-years-old.

For any actual adult, pointing out there is no evidence for a deity or asking how atheists get up each morning without the motivation of Heaven, is pretty banal. I would hope most people were assured of their epistemology to have thought of these arguments already.

I think this is an interesting question because it puts science and religion on a bizarrely similar footing. I’m not religious by the way.
‘Who created God and when?’ to me is the same as ‘How and when was the universe created and what came before it?’
There are theories - but no definitive answers. And either way, the concept of true nothingness before the universe or a God existed is not something any human brain can really get it’s head around.
At least if you’re an atheist you can, as some pp have, dismiss it with ‘God’s not real…’ and stop thinking about that one.
But then you’re still stuck with the equally bizarre and complex question of ‘where did everything start?’
The essence of the question, and the frustratingly elusive answers, whether from a religious or scientific perspective, don’t really go away.

We do know the answer to what happens after we die, though. We just don't like that answer.

That's not the same as it being unknown or unanswerable.

My sentiments exactly!

so is this just a Christian thing then or do you also ask the same of Muslims? Jews? Hindus? Just curious…

it does seem that questioning god to Christian’s is like “super clever and funny and ha ha those dumb sky god worshippers, don’t believe in contraception” but if you’re of another religion then everyone is very respectful of your view point and don’t want to offend you, no sir
but fuck those stupid Christians ay

I don't think 'beginingness' is something we can comprehend in our minds. God just is and always has been. Somethings also just aren't ment to be figured out? In the same way kids don't question the origins of things. I believe as adults we too are to take this attitude.

Whenever you go down the rabbit hole of, if x created y, then who created x, and so on and so on you will always end up at a point that no one can answer or at a point of there just was.

In religion, people end up at God.
In science, people end up at whatever particles imploded to start the big bang. But, you also have the people who believe that God put the particles there that caused the big bang.

Wherever you end up, you are always left with a starting point that just is. It exists on its own without causation and therefore without finality. This is what/who people believe is God. He is the ultimate starting point.

it puts science and religion on a bizarrely similar footing

I found myself very much in sympathy with Stephen Fry who pointed out that if all knowledge and understanding were wiped out by some catastrophe, the science knowledge would be built up again exactly as we have it because eg gravity is discovered rather than invested, where as religions are IMHO, invented so might come back similar but different.

But then you’re still stuck with the equally bizarre and complex question of ‘where did everything start?’

Can you explain why you think this is a problem for atheists?

I don't think it's either bizarre or particularly complex. The recurring big bang theory adequately explains it if you can get your head around infinity.

Can you explain why you think this is a problem for atheists?

I don't think it's either bizarre or particularly complex. The recurring big bang theory adequately explains it if you can get your head around infinity.

Not sure how to respond to that 😂 I suppose all that’s left to do is congratulate you on your superior intelligence if you consider the makings of the universe not complex @XDownwiththissortofthingX We’ll maybe leave it there since I’m not sure you’ll get much out of a conversation with a dummy like me… yeah ‘infinity’, what could be simpler to get you’re head around…

I thought Scientists only recently sent a new 10 billion dollar telescope into space to further explore our universe and the makings of it. Guess they didn’t get the memo that it’s all ‘adequately explained’.

To answer your initial question though, and I can’t speak for all atheists of course, just myself - Science is primarily about asking questions and recognising what we don’t know. You then go from there. Even primary school children are taught about ‘enquiry cycles’. Scientific enquiry does not have a start line and finish line. It’s ongoing. An answer leads to a question which leads to an answer which leads to another question and so on… but you know all about infinity, sorry! It’s not a ‘problem’ at all - but I do find it frustrating at times. There is so much to know and still to be discovered about how our universe came about, but never enough years in a lifetime to fully learn and understand it all. Except for you of course…

Science and atheism is not about ‘adequate explanations’. That’s what religion is for.

My sort-of belief / understanding of “God” is that it’s not a “being” (man, woman, elephant, etc.), it’s our collective consciousness. But people use a being as an avatar.

Sorry I didn’t answer the question!

I think you just have to get your head round the idea of “infinity”, then the “beginning” is a mute issue.

I'm not religious but I think that the answer is that God is eternal. God has always been, and always will be.

I find it incredibly hard to get my head around the idea that the universe doesn't have an edge, it goes on infinitely in all directions. This is because I don't normally come across things that go on infinitely.

It's the same applies with God. We are used to the idea that everything has a beginning and an end, so it's confusing to understand something that doesn't.

I did not imply the universe was not 'complex', I suggested the question 'where did it start?' is not particularly complex. Apologies I didn't make that clear.

The problem as I see it stems from the fact that humans have limited lifespans. In the context of the fact that humans centre everything around themselves, it makes us prone to assuming that time must have a starting point, when that isn't necessarily the case.

It's the question itself that is flawed, hence why I don't believe it's a problem for atheism.

There's no need for your condescending tone either. It's "your" head, not '"you're head".

God is the cumulative energy of the universe.

May also be worth considering the fact that some physicists have argued that time doesn't exist.

Everything that has ever happened, and everything that will ever happen, is happening now. There is no such thing as the past, present, or future - but we perceive time as moving forward because of the way that our brains work.

From this perspective, the idea of a beginning and an end doesn't even make sense.

I'm not religious, but I'm not an atheist either. I'm not ruling anything out!

There are some things our limited, finite brains can’t understand. The fact that God is eternal is one of those things. Nobody created God. He’s always been, He will always be. Can I explain it? No. Will I be able to one day? I hope I will, once God makes this earth new again.

This is the same thing as asking someone who doesn’t believe in God or any kind of creation process, how did the first particle or the first atom come to be?

Both are unanswerable questions. Neither belief, in God or science, can explain the origins of this world in full.

Infinite regress, init?
But to answer your question, man created God.

Primitive minds created God and indoctrination kept it going, God's were a way of explaining things that were too complex for the species to explain and as we've built on knowledge gained over centuries (whilst different religion have tried to actively suppress knowledge) 'god' has fewer places to hide

By evolving from animals to humans
it’s purely a man made concept
to essentially self- soothe
it’s a purely intellectual construct which many people take far too seriously

but that’s obviously just an opinion.