Father not being given access to children - where do I stand?

[al3555]

Hi,

Bit of background, I (father) had a period of ill mental health a few years ago, married with 3 young children I struggled to balance work and family pressures and had 3 spells in hospital due to this and other family issues.
Fast forward 5 years I'm now stable, in a good job and finalising divorce from the kids mother. She has blocked me seeing the children for the past 3 years and I miss them terribly. I realise the only way I'll get access is through the C100 court process but am worried that my psychological background will stop me from seeing them even though I have been free of any treatment for 3 years and am coping well with life in general.
Have spoken to a couple of other fathers in similar situations and one of the things which comes up is that I'll need a full psychological assessment at a cost of £5000 or more (I don't qualify for legal aid) which I can barely afford. I'm going to be representing myself, I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts/advice for me, all I want to do is see my children.

Thanks

[KalvinPhillipsBoots]

Wow why you so rude ?

[bluecrayola]

Sublimeursula's post was not rude at all, Kalvin. It was a polite and perfectly reasonable response on a site where women look out for the welfare of other women. Because we have to.

[C8H10N4O2]

@Realisedu

@al3555 not read the whole thread but wow some of these posts are aggressive!

It’s a shame it’s been a few years without contact and that may have to be dealt with sensitively with the children. Equally I can see your ex may want to be sure you’re stable enough now to be in their lives.

i am your ex in this situation, expect my ex never stepped up aside from financially. I would have done anything for him to have had a sudden realisation that he needed to do right by his children. The fact you’re trying to do that now is what matters, in my opinion. And whilst I don’t know the full background with your ex, I always think it is horrific to only communicate via solicitors. Unless you’ve physically attacked her there’s no need for such hostility where children are involved. I would remain calm and communicate by the solicitor to try and resolve it as you will only come off badly if you make a fuss about it…but for what it’s worth i think she sounds incredibly difficult and I’m sorry she can’t bring herself to communicate with you sensibly for the sake of her children.

There was an NMO in place for TWO YEARS

[EL0ISE]

@al3555 Can you please explain WHAT you did to your ex and / or children to have a two year NMO put in place for their protection ?

All you have said is that it was granted when you were you were mentally unwell.

Id also like to ask you how you think remote contact is going to work, when your children of 9, 13 and 16 do not want to hear from you?

Do you think that a court will order then to read any letters or emails that you send them and check that they have actually done so ?

Or that a court will order then to accept a weekly phone call from you ? Would they be compelled to speak or just accept the call?

Im not trying to be difficult here, I’m tying to get you to think through the practicalities of how a court can ( even if it chose to ) force your children to have contact when they are now 9,13 and 16 and would no doubt be something like 11,15 and 17.

The court can do lots of things but it can’t force anyone to have a relationship they don’t want to.

[al3555]

@EL0ISE

@al3555 Can you please explain WHAT you did to your ex and / or children to have a two year NMO put in place for their protection ?

All you have said is that it was granted when you were you were mentally unwell.

Id also like to ask you how you think remote contact is going to work, when your children of 9, 13 and 16 do not want to hear from you?

Do you think that a court will order then to read any letters or emails that you send them and check that they have actually done so ?

Or that a court will order then to accept a weekly phone call from you ? Would they be compelled to speak or just accept the call?

Im not trying to be difficult here, I’m tying to get you to think through the practicalities of how a court can ( even if it chose to ) force your children to have contact when they are now 9,13 and 16 and would no doubt be something like 11,15 and 17.

The court can do lots of things but it can’t force anyone to have a relationship they don’t want to.

I won't go into detail about my mental health issues but I will say that I have not been physically abusive in any way and the mental issues were over a relatively short period. I don't doubt that they were traumatic for my wife and kids as they were for me.

It is a good question about whether the courts can actually force any contact if the kids don't want it

[EL0ISE]

I’m not asking you so say anything about your mental health, Im asking you to say what you did and why there was an NMO. It’s very telling that you wont answer this. You seem to find it hard to take any responsibility for what you did.

The issue here is NOT how traumatic it was for YOU, it’s how it affected your kids. If you ever get as far as court they will considering THEIR best interests and not yours Im afraid.

You seem unable to even consider your children’s feelings in all this. Nor do you seem to have a clear idea of how contact would actually work.

Im afraid you are stuck in a position of “ I have a right to put my side of the story and someone has to force my kids to listen to me “.

[Zola1]

It might be that a report from whatever mental health services you are or have been under will suffice in place of a psychological assessment given that you say you have been well for 3 years. What have you done to address your mental health? You mention a non mol which suggests you posed a risk when you were unwell?

[AlwaysGinPlease]

Red flags are are flying high! Refusing to admit what the NMO was for. Also would you WANT the the courts to force contact?
I think you would.

[C8H10N4O2]

@Zola1

It might be that a report from whatever mental health services you are or have been under will suffice in place of a psychological assessment given that you say you have been well for 3 years. What have you done to address your mental health? You mention a non mol which suggests you posed a risk when you were unwell?

The OP is refusing to say what triggered a very significant length of NMO and is implying it was the consequence of a short period of mental health issues (although that short period was several months as an in patient which seems at odds with the minimising of the issue). The OP is also minimising the impact on the family.

Now why would a man who has previously been subject to a lengthy non molestation order to protect his family start posting questions on how to get access to his (reluctant) children on the very topic on MN which at least a couple of us think we remember his ex using? Its a stumper for sure.

You don't get NMOs for being mentally ill - you get them for being abusive.

[hryllilegur]

@C8H10N4O2

The OP is refusing to say what triggered a very significant length of NMO and is implying it was the consequence of a short period of mental health issues (although that short period was several months as an in patient which seems at odds with the minimising of the issue). The OP is also minimising the impact on the family.

Now why would a man who has previously been subject to a lengthy non molestation order to protect his family start posting questions on how to get access to his (reluctant) children on the very topic on MN which at least a couple of us think we remember his ex using? Its a stumper for sure.

You don't get NMOs for being mentally ill - you get them for being abusive.

An absolute stumper for sure!

Apparently 3 periods of hospitalisation. One of which was 7 months long.

But it was a quick recovery and he’s been totally perfect ever since.

And a 2 year NMO and the best info we’ve had is that there was no physical violence. Because anything else doesn’t matter, does it?

A refusal to be open and honest is generally not a good sign. Especially when it’s coupled with inconsistent details and presenting themselves as the victim.

It’s difficult to read this OP’s posts and not conclude that his ex and his children don’t need any more crap from him.

[JenniferSlopez]

Why the spiteful posts? OP was obviously suffering from a serious mental illness at the time and I can see why he doesn't want to divulge specific identifying details on a public forum, especially when so many posters do not seem to be here in good faith.

I'd imagine it may well have been horrific for all concerned, including the wife and children, but severe mental illness isn't something you pick and choose. He must've been a fairly highly functioning individual before to have held down a good enough job to have a £650k house and for his wife to have married him and had three kids with him.

I don't envy men in how they often have to take on the financial burden with not an ounce of sympathy if their mental health deteriorates as a result.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I think @JenniferSlopez the worry is that him not disclosing is likely because the behaviour was so abusive that the advice would be very different. The posts are already identifying to anyone who knows him.

No one chooses MH issues. But if his behaviour was so abusive that his wife and children were traumatised, which it sounds as if they were, and they don't want to see him, which it sounds as if they don't, him trying to force them to is retraumatising and likely very distressing. And he's in his right mind now. Making a decision to reintroduce trauma.

He wants to explain himself to them, he wants contact, he wants... It's not spiteful to point out that what the DC may NEED (not want) is the opposite. I suspect all the mum wants is to protect her children.



For reference, I know a family where the dad had diagnosed MH issues. He spent months breaking down the house, buying weapons, using drugs in front of the children, inviting unsafe people in, doing things like playing with weapons in the house while high, he would smash doors, break his fists on the walls, keep everyone up all night, rant and rave. He didn't hit anyone though. He could say there was 'no physical abuse'. He is also trying to get back in to the family. Could be the same man for all I know. All his support people say that he is well now. But he's still putting himself first. The kids need quiet and stability. And their mum to be safe.

[Monstermoomin]

@MrsTerryPratchett I don't think adding the example is particularly helpful on the thread as there is context missing from what you've said and with OP and what he has/hasn't disclosed.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

@Monstermoomin

@MrsTerryPratchett I don't think adding the example is particularly helpful on the thread as there is context missing from what you've said and with OP and what he has/hasn't disclosed.

What context?

[JenniferSlopez]

Well, I've just googled it and one of the examples of behaviours that have been accepted as forms of molestation in previous cases is 'searching through a handbag without permission', so it doesn't seem to necessarily necessitate violence.

But yes people with severe mental issues can be violent no doubt. I remember the famous feminist who tried to kill Andy Warhol. She still seems to be held in quite high regard on here.

[Monstermoomin]

What his mental health issues were, was this behaviour happening prior to mental health diagnosis. Was he in receipt of treatment. Was the drug use prior to his mental health issues or did it start after as self medication, did it exacerbate it. Was he doing these things whilst unwell, was he deemed to have capacity at the time. Was any of this reported to the police were CPS involved. There's so much context that is needed in situations and I just don't feel it's helpful.

It's like I could say, I've known men who in full psychotic episodes have not had the capacity to understand their actions and caused significant harm to their family members and still want a relationship with them.

I've known men who've had severe depressive episode and PTSD who've been in the army and have in a flashback smashed up the family home, frightening the children and come to realise what they've done, left the house and tried to kill themselves, been detained and then tried to rebuild their broken relationship with their family.

None of that is really helpful to OP as we don't know what the full context of his circumstances are.

[JenniferSlopez]

I just imagine it must be horrific hurting those you most love and not being able to stop yourself. Especially, if the stress of trying to be a good husband/father/provider was what caused the breakdown in the first place.

I feel a bit like I would toward a woman who hurt her children while suffering from PND.

[C8H10N4O2]

@JenniferSlopez

Well, I've just googled it and one of the examples of behaviours that have been accepted as forms of molestation in previous cases is 'searching through a handbag without permission', so it doesn't seem to necessarily necessitate violence.

But yes people with severe mental issues can be violent no doubt. I remember the famous feminist who tried to kill Andy Warhol. She still seems to be held in quite high regard on here.

You might want to do more research on NMOs. You do not get two years of NMOs for snooping someone's handbag.

That may be an example of the types of behaviours in a sustained campaign of harrassment. Another example would be planting your size 12s in the middle of a space which has previously provided support to your victim.

[JenniferSlopez]

Well, it might be the case that the behaviours were a lot more traumatising than we know. I'd still feel sympathy though. Perhaps even more in some ways.

Even if we were to conclude that it's in the kids interest that he stays away, it must be truly horrendous to go from loving parent to completely estranged from your kids, when you didn't consciously do anything to harm them. I think it'd be an extremely hard pill to swallow and many parents would want to pursue that tiny sliver of how that they might be able see their kids again one day.

[JenniferSlopez]

'sliver of hope'