Father not being given access to children - where do I stand?

[al3555]

Hi,

Bit of background, I (father) had a period of ill mental health a few years ago, married with 3 young children I struggled to balance work and family pressures and had 3 spells in hospital due to this and other family issues.
Fast forward 5 years I'm now stable, in a good job and finalising divorce from the kids mother. She has blocked me seeing the children for the past 3 years and I miss them terribly. I realise the only way I'll get access is through the C100 court process but am worried that my psychological background will stop me from seeing them even though I have been free of any treatment for 3 years and am coping well with life in general.
Have spoken to a couple of other fathers in similar situations and one of the things which comes up is that I'll need a full psychological assessment at a cost of £5000 or more (I don't qualify for legal aid) which I can barely afford. I'm going to be representing myself, I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts/advice for me, all I want to do is see my children.

Thanks

[YetMoreNewBeginnings]

Your posts are very contradictory...

I just want to rebuild a relationship with them.
I would like to be a small part of their lives
I'm not looking to get back into their lives,

So, for their sakes you first need to be honest - with yourself - about what you want. Then you really need to think about how your wants compare with their needs and what is best for them.

You're being very prickly with people pointing out the the NMO absolutely would not have stopped you applying for the remote contact you supposedly want now. That's a question that absolutely will be asked, by a court and very likely by your children. So, why didn't you bother then? For whos benefit did you decide to go no contact with them for years?

What benefit will being in remote contact with you bring to them?
Will you genuinely be happy with the odd email or do you expect them to commit to a regularity?

[EL0ISE]

@SammyScrounge

Posted accidentally. Sorry! The non molestation order - does your ex have reason to fear for herself or the boys?.Maybe when you were ill, was your behaviour difficult for her to handle?

I don’t understand the thinking behind your questions. What mother is going to say

“ Oh yes my ex was such a risk to myself that he got an NMO for two years but Im sure he is totally safe with my kids “

The risk lies in the perpetrator, not the victim.

And it’s not the ex ‘s job to “ manage his behaviour “. It’s the OPs job to manage himself, he is an adult .

Every week in the UK, a child dies at the hands of their father or step father.

[SammyScrounge]

Posted accidentally. Sorry! The non molestation order - does your ex have reason to fear for herself or the boys?.Maybe when you were ill, was your behaviour difficult for her to handle?

[SammyScrounge]

@al3555

For 2 years I had a non molestation order in place, I have been trying to resolve things amicably but she won't even communicate other than a few basic messages through a solicitor.

A.non molestation order against you perhaps casts.a new light on your situation.

[CrescentMoons]

@al3555

this I agree with although I was hoping just the odd phone call/email wouldn't do any harm. I just want to rebuild a relationship with them.

This is precisely my concern. You don’t see that sporadic contact could do untold harm. You don’t seem to realise the impact that contact with you might have on the family, your ex wife etc it’s all about you and your rights and not the rights of the children and your ex wife.

when you were sectioned three times and in a mental hospital she was much much more than a single parent, she would have been counsellor, advocate, dealing with not only the day to day impact of raising children, you must take responsibility for that.

how much stress was she under? What about her mental health? Her emotional health? During divorce never mind the three children and dealing with all of that.

like has been suggested at some point start with her a heart felt genuine letter taking responsibility and ask her for a meeting with a counsellor to listen to her concerns - listen first, acknowledge, and don’t defend what happened or dismiss it.

if she won’t then apply to court

but you might not get very far

2 years NMO - I knew a husband, who took an axe to the house, literally, ripping radiators off the wall, and threw everything out of windows. This was after verbally assaulting the child and verbally abusing the mother whilst drunk. She called police and left the house with the children. They turned up and warned him. He trashed the house when they left- he got a year NMO. It’s all relative but 2 years suggests a high level - they are not given out lightly.

[AlwaysGinPlease]

I want

That's all you care about. What you want.

Your silence on the NMO is deafening. Your family are terrified of you and like I said earlier but you of course ignored, for very good reason. Leave them alone.

[al3555]

@RedHelenB

If their siblings aren't seeing you, even if contact is ordered I can't see them being willing to go with you.
Your children will always be your children though, and in time may well be willing to have contact. You need to play the long game, but contact will have to be on their terms now.

this I agree with although I was hoping just the odd phone call/email wouldn't do any harm. I just want to rebuild a relationship with them.

[RedHelenB]

@al3555

I've been told that if the 13 and 16 year olds say no to contact with me then there's not much I can do. The 9 year old is too young to have their view taken outright.

If their siblings aren't seeing you, even if contact is ordered I can't see them being willing to go with you.
Your children will always be your children though, and in time may well be willing to have contact. You need to play the long game, but contact will have to be on their terms now.

[C8H10N4O2]

@JenniferSlopez

I mean, Shamima Begum was getting less of a hard time than this guy to put it in perspective.

Don't be so bloody ridiculous.

[JenniferSlopez]

I mean, Shamima Begum was getting less of a hard time than this guy to put it in perspective.

[JenniferSlopez]

'sliver of hope'

[JenniferSlopez]

Well, it might be the case that the behaviours were a lot more traumatising than we know. I'd still feel sympathy though. Perhaps even more in some ways.

Even if we were to conclude that it's in the kids interest that he stays away, it must be truly horrendous to go from loving parent to completely estranged from your kids, when you didn't consciously do anything to harm them. I think it'd be an extremely hard pill to swallow and many parents would want to pursue that tiny sliver of how that they might be able see their kids again one day.

[C8H10N4O2]

@JenniferSlopez

Well, I've just googled it and one of the examples of behaviours that have been accepted as forms of molestation in previous cases is 'searching through a handbag without permission', so it doesn't seem to necessarily necessitate violence.

But yes people with severe mental issues can be violent no doubt. I remember the famous feminist who tried to kill Andy Warhol. She still seems to be held in quite high regard on here.

You might want to do more research on NMOs. You do not get two years of NMOs for snooping someone's handbag.

That may be an example of the types of behaviours in a sustained campaign of harrassment. Another example would be planting your size 12s in the middle of a space which has previously provided support to your victim.

[JenniferSlopez]

I just imagine it must be horrific hurting those you most love and not being able to stop yourself. Especially, if the stress of trying to be a good husband/father/provider was what caused the breakdown in the first place.

I feel a bit like I would toward a woman who hurt her children while suffering from PND.

[Monstermoomin]

What his mental health issues were, was this behaviour happening prior to mental health diagnosis. Was he in receipt of treatment. Was the drug use prior to his mental health issues or did it start after as self medication, did it exacerbate it. Was he doing these things whilst unwell, was he deemed to have capacity at the time. Was any of this reported to the police were CPS involved. There's so much context that is needed in situations and I just don't feel it's helpful.

It's like I could say, I've known men who in full psychotic episodes have not had the capacity to understand their actions and caused significant harm to their family members and still want a relationship with them.

I've known men who've had severe depressive episode and PTSD who've been in the army and have in a flashback smashed up the family home, frightening the children and come to realise what they've done, left the house and tried to kill themselves, been detained and then tried to rebuild their broken relationship with their family.

None of that is really helpful to OP as we don't know what the full context of his circumstances are.

[JenniferSlopez]

Well, I've just googled it and one of the examples of behaviours that have been accepted as forms of molestation in previous cases is 'searching through a handbag without permission', so it doesn't seem to necessarily necessitate violence.

But yes people with severe mental issues can be violent no doubt. I remember the famous feminist who tried to kill Andy Warhol. She still seems to be held in quite high regard on here.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

@Monstermoomin

@MrsTerryPratchett I don't think adding the example is particularly helpful on the thread as there is context missing from what you've said and with OP and what he has/hasn't disclosed.

What context?

[Monstermoomin]

@MrsTerryPratchett I don't think adding the example is particularly helpful on the thread as there is context missing from what you've said and with OP and what he has/hasn't disclosed.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I think @JenniferSlopez the worry is that him not disclosing is likely because the behaviour was so abusive that the advice would be very different. The posts are already identifying to anyone who knows him.

No one chooses MH issues. But if his behaviour was so abusive that his wife and children were traumatised, which it sounds as if they were, and they don't want to see him, which it sounds as if they don't, him trying to force them to is retraumatising and likely very distressing. And he's in his right mind now. Making a decision to reintroduce trauma.

He wants to explain himself to them, he wants contact, he wants... It's not spiteful to point out that what the DC may NEED (not want) is the opposite. I suspect all the mum wants is to protect her children.



For reference, I know a family where the dad had diagnosed MH issues. He spent months breaking down the house, buying weapons, using drugs in front of the children, inviting unsafe people in, doing things like playing with weapons in the house while high, he would smash doors, break his fists on the walls, keep everyone up all night, rant and rave. He didn't hit anyone though. He could say there was 'no physical abuse'. He is also trying to get back in to the family. Could be the same man for all I know. All his support people say that he is well now. But he's still putting himself first. The kids need quiet and stability. And their mum to be safe.

[JenniferSlopez]

Why the spiteful posts? OP was obviously suffering from a serious mental illness at the time and I can see why he doesn't want to divulge specific identifying details on a public forum, especially when so many posters do not seem to be here in good faith.

I'd imagine it may well have been horrific for all concerned, including the wife and children, but severe mental illness isn't something you pick and choose. He must've been a fairly highly functioning individual before to have held down a good enough job to have a £650k house and for his wife to have married him and had three kids with him.

I don't envy men in how they often have to take on the financial burden with not an ounce of sympathy if their mental health deteriorates as a result.

[hryllilegur]

@C8H10N4O2

The OP is refusing to say what triggered a very significant length of NMO and is implying it was the consequence of a short period of mental health issues (although that short period was several months as an in patient which seems at odds with the minimising of the issue). The OP is also minimising the impact on the family.

Now why would a man who has previously been subject to a lengthy non molestation order to protect his family start posting questions on how to get access to his (reluctant) children on the very topic on MN which at least a couple of us think we remember his ex using? Its a stumper for sure.

You don't get NMOs for being mentally ill - you get them for being abusive.

An absolute stumper for sure!

Apparently 3 periods of hospitalisation. One of which was 7 months long.

But it was a quick recovery and he’s been totally perfect ever since.

And a 2 year NMO and the best info we’ve had is that there was no physical violence. Because anything else doesn’t matter, does it?

A refusal to be open and honest is generally not a good sign. Especially when it’s coupled with inconsistent details and presenting themselves as the victim.

It’s difficult to read this OP’s posts and not conclude that his ex and his children don’t need any more crap from him.