Father not being given access to children - where do I stand?

[al3555]

Hi,

Bit of background, I (father) had a period of ill mental health a few years ago, married with 3 young children I struggled to balance work and family pressures and had 3 spells in hospital due to this and other family issues.
Fast forward 5 years I'm now stable, in a good job and finalising divorce from the kids mother. She has blocked me seeing the children for the past 3 years and I miss them terribly. I realise the only way I'll get access is through the C100 court process but am worried that my psychological background will stop me from seeing them even though I have been free of any treatment for 3 years and am coping well with life in general.
Have spoken to a couple of other fathers in similar situations and one of the things which comes up is that I'll need a full psychological assessment at a cost of £5000 or more (I don't qualify for legal aid) which I can barely afford. I'm going to be representing myself, I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts/advice for me, all I want to do is see my children.

Thanks

Not surprisingly. The threshold is ridiculously high for a non molestation order - I have one against my ex partner.

you are suggesting that the mental health problems affected you - clearly they affected your ex wife and the children on a high level - you can not expect that is all ok after 3 years. Trust is gone and eroded. Children don’t want to see you.
if the ex had a non mol in place - you aren’t supposed to contact her - you must go through the solicitor.

it is not ‘right I’m stepping up now’.

16 year old and the next youngest - no contact sorry.

you would be unlikely to get contact.

you best bet is to write to her solicitor saying

1. acknowledge past behaviour and not blame your mental health as if it is separate from you
2. say what treatment you have had over what time and delivered by who
3. acknowledge the impact on everyone and take full responsibility
4. ask if you can write letters and send gifts
5. ask if there are any circumstances your ex wife would agree to contact with the children and what conditions she might have eg supervised so you could have contact

You say the children heard and witnessed very little. I can guarantee the older ones definitely heard and witnessed a hell of a lot more than you think they did.

I imagine the whole thing was very traumatic on their mother and they would have witnessed the lengths she went to in order to keep them safe and looked after.

If you really want access, go through the courts. But I don’t think it’s very likely the 13 and 16 year old will want a weekly phone call. At that age it’s hard to get them to spend time family. They would much rather be with their friends.

And to be honest it sounds like you want to put your point across about what went on. That’s not fair to them. They need stability and safety and it seems they have that with their mother. Go through the courts but no court is going to make a 13 and 16 year old see you.

You need to respect their choice that they may never want to see you again.

Ah. So you're after contact so you can tell them your version of the 'story'. Got it.

Only OP knows the reasons why a NMO was in place and if he doesn't want to say that's up to him really. Assuming it is because he has harmed or threatened to harm his ex and/or children and then using MH as an excuse isn't really fair.

People can have psychotic episodes and have beliefs that people are against them, poisoning them, having affairs, want to kill them etc. How do you know that's not the case and because of how unwell and lacking capacity and insight into this OP was, ex asked for a NMO because of harassment through genuine ill health.

I'm not dismissing the impact the above (if it were the case) will have had on ex and children, but he's just trying to have contact and make amends to rebuild relationships. People deserve second chances to do so.

Get yourself in front of a good lawyer

If you haven't got 5k start saving every spare penny now.

Fight for access to communicate with your children. (Providing there is no threat to them )

It may well be a slow process for them to accept you back into their lives, but you need to show them you are willing to fight for them.
Then explain you were ill, you accept this should have happened sooner, just be as honest and transparent with them as possible. But go easy.

Any assessment with psychologist will be split 50/50.

Fill put the c100 application and then let the court decide.

You can't second guess but you can be honest in what you put in your statement, and how much better you are doing now, and that you hope, if DCs want to, to have some sort of relationship with their father , you and to try to build some bridges

At least then you will have tried

But please make sure uou don't disrespect or misjudge their mother (or any parent) for being wary, scared, apprehensive or protective. She has coped with impact of your risk behaviour whilst very unwell (& perhaps at times badly behaved even when not unwell) and whether there was reason or not , or fully or partially explained by Mh crisis, it doesn't take away from safeguarding children and what's in their welfare interests trumps all of that.

If you were previously denied access because your MH issues created a potential threat to your family’s safety then perhaps you should accept that you will not be a part of their lives for now at least.

That would of course be very sad for you, but children must be able to have complete trust that their father provides unconditional safety, love and security.

Perhaps write them letters so they know the door is open when they are ready. Don’t try to force the issue if they are angry with you as it could drive a deeper wedge.

However, if you have been unfairly ostracised by your ex then it sounds like you will need to pursue a legal route. Although they may still not want to see you. But at least they will see you are fighting for them and may be ready for a relationship in future.

I agree that everyone should be extremely careful with this one. On the other end of this is a women who went through a great deal and some children whose support during this time was that mother.

It's very difficult to get any kind of order, particulate a non-mol for 2 years. Whatever it was, and OP seems reticent to say, it was serious. This a a trauma-impacted family.

So judges in family court system will look carefully and listen to all the evidence and have the welfare interests at foremost. They usually - not always as they decide when not- consider some sort of contact is beneficial with both parents and may want a plan to build up over time to what they feel is suitable, step by step with review court dates.

You don't know that they will ask for a psych evaluation report nor that you'll be ordered to pay £5k for it or that it'll even cost that, not sure where you got that info from and how accurate that is unless your solicitor told you that ?

I'd be inclined to listen to solicitor and take it one step at a time starting with c100 application to family court. (This is U.K. legislation)

I would like to be a small part of their lives if they'll let me in whatever that entails.
It could just be a weekly phone call.
This expectation feels extremely high no? A weekly phone call would mean that once a week, every single week, their emotional lives will be turned upside down. They’ll be revisiting painful feelings, just by talking to you, these don’t go as soon as the phone is put down.

Seek professional advice, from a specialist therapist, about what kind of communication and how regularly would be good to hope for.

There was no mention of a 2 year Non Molestation Order in the first post by the OP .. as others have said be careful ladies

I agree that everyone should be extremely careful with this one. On the other end of this is a women who went through a great deal and some children whose support during this time was that mother.

Every parent has the legal right to apply for some sort of child contact , that's why it goes to children and families court for a judge to look at & consider all the relevant facts - of which we don't know details - and the judge gets to decide.

As long as no one is coaching OP to be dishonest, then that's what courts are for if that route is chosen

However, I can see that this PP was probably also referring to pp realising there is another side , importance of being cautious and tentative as we don't know the true story of what happened , what the mother and DCs experienced it as and are unlikely ever to.

I suspect OP doesn't fully know that either as he had bmi and didn't see the fall out and impact on his DCs either. That's not a bad call to suggest OP seeks some sort of therapy about trying to understand how it may have impacted his ex wife and his DCs. And how his applying for child contact might impact them.

NMO not bmi ! Sorry

Yes on reflection the title of this thread and first post really were a bit misleading - not open & honest at the start about there having been a 2 Yr NMO in place nor the extent of background of trauma that his family also may have gone through - which becomes a little bit more in focus later on in thread

Obv we don't have all details but I feel that this is one of those mumsnet threads that would go very differently the other way around.

Imagine the following...

Woman is main earner for the family and has a mental breakdown due to the stress of trying to balance family and work life. She's so ill she can't work but still gives her husband the best part of a million worth of assets, leaving herself financially struggling.

Despite there being no violence and the mother dearly loving her children the father blocks her from seeing them.

You also have to wonder what she's said to them if they don't want to see their father who loves them and has tried his best to provide for them. Certainly doesn't sound like it was along the lines of 'daddy loves you but had been struggling with some health problems'.

But then again I may be wrong as don't really know the full story.

I don’t mean immediately obviously; after saving it up or looking into payment plans etc. OP said they can ‘barely afford’ it, not that they didn’t have it/part of it at all.

The contact is for the benefit of the child not for the benefit of the father - it is not the fathers legal right

But that isn't the story is it? Hes disappeared for 5 years and the ex had to get a NMO against op.

NMOs are not handed out like smarties. You may well want contact with your kids but they currently don't want it with you.

The only thing you can do is offer regular contact via letters, remembering birthdays/Xmas and continuing to put them front and central. Whatever happened has affected them badly and pushing this won't yield the result you want. If your mh issues caused their trauma, then whilst I sympathise, they are not your support humans and poor parental mh can be devastating fir children. You're going to have to play the long game. I suspect there's a lot more to this that you havent divulged.

He hasn't "given" her assets, he didn't force a sale making his children homeless (if he had even been able to). That's not exactly a high bar for parenting.

As others have said, NMOs have a very high bar. The fact that someone with a previous NMO has thinks that the the children were not greatly affected by the behaviour suggests they are either in denial or simply don't comprehend the impact of their behaviour - neither are very compatible with contact.

He doesn't have to share the details of the NMO. We can reserve judgement on advising him how to get access to the children since we don't know the full facts.

Most people with mental health breakdowns do not behave in ways which cause an NMO or even get anything close to it.

All that aside these 'if a woman said' arguments are irrelevant because women and men are not physically equal, we are not socialised in the same ways and nor are we treated in the same way in different situations.

NMO can have children named in them.

And by the time they run out the idea is that the person who has one against them has learnt not to repeat their actions against the parties named in the NMO and their household.

I suspect the reason the OP didn't seek contact with his children is because one or all of them were named in the NMO to prevent him threatening to harm them.

However in the case of children the Family Courts don't necessarily prevent a parent having contact with their child at the time or in future.

OK, I misread and thought he'd given her the house. My mistake.

Ultimately, though, I'm pretty sympathetic despite acknowledging that the kids must come first.

Imagine if you had an unforeseen mental breakdown tomorrow which spiralled out of control and wrecked your marriage and relationship with your children. Think how you'd feel and how hard it would be to just walk away and accept that you lost the most precious thing in your life through matters out of your control.

OP must've presumably been pretty highly functioning before his issues to own a £650k house being the only worker (unless wife worked when house was bought). Even if she did it sounds like he had a decent career.

It's all about what you want, not what's best for your kids. It takes a lot for a NMO and you've abandoned these kids for half a decade.

Does this man having severe mental health problems mean he has no chance of redemption in his children's eyes?
Or is he a man with an illness that may have caused him to behaviour erratically, dangerously or negatively?
Surely he should be allowed to put this right after a period of I'll health. He seems to be making positive steps and not being demanding.
I am thinking of all those parents on here who have children with mental health problems (mine included) He caused me terrible pain both physically and mentally so should he pay the price forever?
Why are we automatically being so judgmental?

Exactly. I bet most mothers would struggle to just walk away from their children forever, even if they'd negatively affected their lives through illness beyond their control.