To be trying to find ways to tell my brother that his niece is queer! I really need help in finding a way that it makes it important to him.

[Wills]

I am stunningly proud and in love with my daughter so don’t get me wrong I have zero issues with her sexuality and hope she feels 100% supported (in the way that young 20+ year olds always have points to score in how as a parent you can always improve! 🤣). No my issue is that last week my middle brother came to visit our mother for the first time in 6 years. He moved to the US to marry his love just over 20 years ago. He rarely comes back - 6 years ago was for 3 days to attend our beloved godmother’s (fairy) funeral. He’s also very much on the spectrum (as are my kids, and I only mention this to say that unless something is important to him - I mean REALLY important to him - he doesn’t engage he simply doesn’t ‘see’ it and having kids like him has taught me so much. I’ve also learnt how to teach them NOT to be like this. So remembering my kids/my birthday etc went by the wayside the second he moved to the US. This is his personality and whilst it initially hurt, having had children similar to him I’ve come to terms with him and no longer resent the lack of communication etc. When, every half/decade we do come together he’s fabulous because we’re in front of him. I get this).

My issue is that my youngest brother came to see him the following evening and they got into a political discussion which horrified my youngest brother. It seems that my brother supports De Santis and believes that any mention of LBTQ+ relationships should be removed from the curriculum.

I have a single chance to tell my brother about his beautiful niece. He may well ignore it anyway. So I’m asking for help to find the best way to make him see just how stupid he is. Partially I’m doing this for him, but most of all I want to champion my gorgeous daughter (she doesn’t know her uncle’s view but she doesn’t really have any relationship with him - this is for me - I want to champion my daughter.). PS my mother has NEVER coped with my daughter’s sexuality so it’s not really surprising that my middle brother doesn’t know/understand.

Finally - it’s late! I may not answer tonight but trust me I will pickup and engage tomorrow. So I really need help! If you had the opportunity to engage with an anti trans/LBTQ+ individual (ps. I know there are more letters but I’m dyslexic and can’t do long acronyms.) WHAT WOULD YOU SAY? If you had just a single opportunity to change the way they think? How would you prioritise your statement?

Am so worried no one will look at this. It’s a really fraught conversation. Thank you ahead of time for even a small response.

This. Being opposed to encouraging children not to transition is not homophobic.

You seriously need to rein it in and calm down OP. You’re making this all about you. “Hey look at me and how ok I am with all this! I’m just so accepting and inclusive! I’m so proud to have a queer daughter, it makes me so modern! And now I’m going to use private information about my daughter to stick one to my bigoted brother!”

You need to be way way more sensitive to your daughter in all this. Ask her how she wants to play it and take it from there. I bet she’ll want the whole thing downplaying. You wouldn’t out her as heterosexual, so why out her as anything else?

I have always been a strong feminist and now wish to champion trans issues.

It’s been eye opening, and I’ve learnt so much

You have a lot more to learn OP. Some trans rights trample all over feminism.

I really hope you don't tell him OP.

What do you hope to achieve?

You say he rarely comes to visit, has nasty views, so what is the purpose in telling him.
It's not even your information to share, sounds like you want to use this as a stick to poke him with.

Do you hope to annoy him?
Make him change his views?
Improve the family dynamic somehow?

How does your daughter feel in this? That you are considering sharing details of your daughter's sexuality with a homophobic family member!

I speak from experience.
My amazing adult son is gay.
My mother and sister are homophobic ( belong to a nasty fundamentalist church).
They they don't know my son is gay.
While I don't keep it a secret I feel they don't deserve to know. They are nasty bigots and I don't care to share personal information (which is not mine to share anyway) knowing it is likely to provoke a hostile reaction.
You need to prioritise your DDs feelings in all this.

Totally agree.

ClairDeLaLune ·
I have always been a strong feminist and now wish to champion trans issues.

It’s been eye opening, and I’ve learnt so much

You have a lot more to learn OP. Some trans rights trample all over feminism.

I agree, and after decades of considering myself a feminist I am not sure I want to align myself there anymore.
Trans issues and women's rights are colliding.
And it's ugly.

BTW, I know no one, absolutely no one , who actually cares about anyone else's sexuality. Maybe that is unusual, I don't know. However I don't think that children should be shown any material about how to have sex, IYSWIM, biology is one thing, teaching respect absolutely fine, but children have no need to see anything about anal,oral sex etc. Neither do they need to be put on the path to being trans without parents/guardians being involved. I suspect that puts me in the De Santis camp as far as you are concerned. Schools are involving themselves too much in what are, personal matters, safeguarding yes, encouragement no.

The most important thing about your daughter isn't her sexuality.
It's whether she's kind, thoughtful, loving, empathetic, gentle, etc. Tell your brother about that.

So I’m asking for help to find the best way to make him see just how stupid he is. Partially I’m doing this for him, but most of all I want to champion my gorgeous daughter

You are using your daughter as cannon fodder. It's not her job to be a teaching tool. She doesn't need to be championed either just because of who she finds sexually attractive.

Champion her for things she does in her life and accept who she wants to spend her life with.

You don't need to celebrate or announce anything about who she wants to have sex with.

I have to agree that there has to be other things going on alongside her sexuality? I do understand that LGBTQ+ is very much a lifestyle, particularly when you’re young, but come on. She must have other interests?

@Wills supporting your dcs is fair enough.

But support charges as there grow up.

Your dd is an adult. It’s up to her to decide what she says to who. She might not want to come out to her uncle for example. Or she might think he isn’t important enough in her life etc….

But you can still support her and be her champion. Support would be challenging people who have bigoted views for example (but Wo mentioning her!!). Or be involved in advocacy groups if you really want to. Or showing her you trust her and have full confidence in her. Or always having your door open, regardless of how she sees herself, the problems she has etc…
You don’t need to be pushing her iyswim. She isn’t a child that needs that type if support to do well in school or at swimming. She is an adult and simply accepting her, all of her, is the best support you can give her.

I have always been a strong feminist and now wish to champion trans issues

Why do you want to champion them now? Just because your daughter is queer or trans? Or because you genuinely believe that trans people need some rights that they don't already have? Have you thought deeply and read widely about the actual issues e.g. the mutilation of children's bodies, the dangers of puberty blockers, the safeguarding?

I think op fell down some ‘how to be a queer/trans ally’ websites and has learned the phrase ‘champion your queer/trans relative’ and ‘champion TRA trans issues’

But she doesn’t actually know what that means. Like most people, Op won’t even be able to name a right queer or trans people don’t have, that everyone else does have, in the country she lives in.

It’s a stock phrase of people trying to appear like they are in full support of the queer trans community. Op doesn’t even really seem to understand why her dd is now queer.

It’s like the tiktok video where a transwoman is telling people being trans is so hard, allies should support the trans people in their lives by doing their clothes washing, cooking, food shopping, pay bills or purchase gifts for them etc. Apparently, trans people struggle to even complete basic tasks and look after themselves, allies must do it for them.

All just ridiculous.

Some amazing points have been made on here and has really given me a different perspective. Thank you all.

@speakout I love the view that they don't deserve to know. Thank you

OP, can you please answer the question you've been asked repeatedly (apologies if I've missed it).

Has your daughter explicitly asked you to discuss her sexuality with her estranged uncle?

This is an odd post. You are in love with your adult daughter? And why does her being gorgeous matter?

if this post is even real, don’t tell him.

I honestly can’t understand why you have taken it in yourself to broadcast your DD’s sexuality to anyone at all.
Surely it’s none of your bloody business.

I feel this is starting to get too aggressive. I wanted to speak to my brother as I didn’t want her to feel hurt/judged/upset by his disgusting views. I have taken on board loads of good points but seriously I was seeking to protect her. I DONT broadcast her sexuality sheesh. She’s hadn’t seen him for ages and shared her FB. Those that say it’s up to her are TOTALLY right and I’ve listened and realised. But please could we stop with the idea that I’m ‘broadcasting’ or calling my Eddie from Ab Fab.

Sorry for not responding. I do feel others have made some good points and I’ve absolutely seen my mistake. The name calling has left me a little nervous to read more. She hasn’t asked. She doesn’t know. It was her inviting to follow her on Facebook that has made me worried however she’s a grown adult and is perfectly capable of puttting my brother in his place if she decides to bother.

As many have said
a] if he has ASD he might be thinking only of literature in schools being too explicit, and many think that it is. Not anything else about De Santis.
b] unless he has said anything which is clearly homophobic you don't know that he is.
c] none of the above makes him transphobic. Being pro women as per J K Rowling does not make a person 'transphobic', whatever that means.
People are entitled to hold those views, and not be transphobic .
Many here hold those views and aren't.
FWIW, I have family members who have ASD and they often latch on to one thing/one point of view.

My son is gay and his partner is black (we’re white). I haven’t even told MIL either of these things because my son doesn’t want the awkward conversation with her that will doubtless ensue. He will tell her whenever he’s ready, I wouldn’t presume to do it for him.

Thank of it this way.

If he is homophobic, and it’s not clear that he is, why do you think one conversation with you will change his mind. If that’s all it took, one conversation, there would be no homophobia

I don’t want to sound like an arse but you didn’t want to protect her from his views. Because she has managed to become an adult without knowing them.

Depending on his views, she may not actually disagree. My dd is a lesbian and her partner is a trans man. Both are entirely uncomfortable with todays trash movement and do not like what’s being taught in schools in America. They feel it’s actually playing into the ‘gay people are sex criminals’ rhetoric and is making their lives harder.

you have said you don’t really understand todays issues surrounding that are facing people who are gay or trans or queer people. So you can’t champion for them. How can you, if you don’t know if you agree with each issue? To know that, you must understand the issue.

You did this as you saw it as an opportunity to, prove you are an ally. You high makes me think this whole situation is actually far more difficult for you than you are letting on or your dd is leading you to believe it has to become hers and your personality. That’s really unhealthy for both of you.

I don’t know but I get the impression your dd is very critical of you and has made you feel a bit like a crap parent.

This whole thing has and underlying hint of much bigger problems somewhere.

You are making a massive deal out of nothing. So she's gay. So what. You don't have to shout from the rooftops with a megaphone in case someone might be considering a homophobic comment. You let her deal with problems if they arise and back her up at the time (if needed).

Sorry you’re getting a hard time on here, OP. Those who say they support DeSantis, obviously don’t know his policies beyond the basic school stuff. There is absolutely no fucking excuse for supporting Ron DeSantis at all, even if you are extremely GC or staunchly anti-sex education in schools. Aside from his totally batshit, bigoted views, the man is actively loosening the gun laws that lead to mass shootings! If mumsnetters (or OPs brother) honestly think that gender identity is the most important thing on the political agenda in the USA right now, then all I can say is that I wish we had that luxury. Curriculum is being used as a massive decoy to appeal to swing voters who feel a bit nervous about education post-covid while really insidious bills on reproductive rights and permitless carry of guns get passed quietly.

At best, your brother has been caught up in some misinformation and is under the impression that kids in other states learn about BDSM at school. Spoiler alert: they don’t. He may even feel that, as a parent, he wants a bit more control over what his kids learn in school, which is actually pretty fair, as the U.S. public education system, on the whole, is far from stellar.

At worst he genuinely supports Ron DeSantis as a political leader which is entirely more concerning.

Definitely don’t involve your DD in any of this. I have a queer autistic kid myself and have learnt the hard way that the usual level of information-sharing with relatives doesn’t apply in these cases (and I have just pain in the arse heteronormative ones, not DeSantis supporting loons.)

@SilverOnToast theres only the Ops brother who, apparently, supports De Santis and we have no clue to what extent. Because it appears op has no clue either.