Child protection

[Fairypick]

Hi, this is my story and am looking for any advice or guidance in regards to my post. Please don’t judge.

Almost 10 years ago I had my second child and at around 8 months old they sustained unexplained none accidental injuries these were the injuries caused from the Drs review:
2014 baby was presented by his mother at his GP surgery with bruising and swelling to his feet, she was unable to offer any explanation to how an immobile child could have sustained these injuries, baby was then referred to Hospital and examined by a doctor. Baby was found to have linear bruising on the tops of the right foot as well as bruising on the tip of the right big toe and diffuse bruising on the soles of both feet. There was also a small 0.5 superficial scratch on top of baby’s chest and a small 5mm linear bruise on the posterior aspect of baby’s left ear. A skeletal survey also found baby to have 6 healing fractures to the ribs, which appeared to be old ones.
There were concerns that the injuries may have been caused by either mother or her partner (not the. Baby’s farther) and they were arrested and bailed with no further action due to no evidence an interim court order was granted. It is noted that in a court of law and family court the judge determined either mother or her partner had caused the injuries and a Lancashire finding was accepted as neither mother or partner were accepting responsibility for causing the injuries that baby had sustained although the blamed each other at the time of the incident.
As part of this section 47 enquiry SW spoken to both in question about the injuries and they both remain clear that they did not cause the injuries to baby nor can they explain what happened or how it happened. Mother also shared that if she had of caused the injuries she would not have taken her baby to get treatment as she knows this would have got her into trouble. Almost 11 years on me and my partner are now expecting our first baby together, there has been no DV in almost 7 years and we have remained very positive in our relationship since and very much looking forward to the arrival of our new born baby. We were made subjected to a child protection order in January due to a referral and we were very open and honest about this, we have worked very closely openly and honestly with the LA since the order was made and have never dismissed anything to them. We are due to have a review conference shortly before our baby is born and we currently scored a 3 and this still remains a score of 3 in the report from the SW before the next review meeting. However despite working extremely hard and jumping through many hoops we were informed that they will be seeking legal advice and can not define an answer as to what will happen next this was not mentioned in the very first meeting, we have completed all the assessments and tasks even agreed to any plan needed to ensure we get to be a family and keep our newborn baby, no pre birth plan has been completed yet either. The reason being that that they are seeking legal advice from what they have said is is that we are both saying now that we don’t think either of us caused the injuries, LA didn’t realise the seriousness of the past case either. We have consent to having a virtual baby for 48hrs and will do anything in our power to show and demonstrate we are no risk at all. We understand that they have a duty to ensure children are protected and especially newborn a babies we have never dismissed that, yes it’s difficult to tell what happened or why it happened as we do not know ourself, yes I admit I did at that time failed to safeguard my child who sadly sustained injuries. What am asking is really what do you think will happen, do we stand a chance of keeping our newborn baby and maintaining as a family unit or are we losing a fighting battle that we have worked so very hard for? I fully understand their worries and concerns but surely with a lot of positives and the length of time passed we could be given a chance at this? We are more then happy to be placed in a mother and baby unit, a foster placement or a supervision order, the last thing we want is to have our baby removed. Any advice or experience would be much appreciated and please don’t judge we are not horrible bad people just two people who would very much like the opportunity to show we can care, protect and love our child to the best of our ability with the support of the LA until they feel satisfied that the risks are no longer there. Yes they have expressed in their report that they think the new born baby will potentially be at significant risk of harm when born, but surely if we are not given a chance to prove this wrong they is that not fair at all? We have been told to keep providing for our baby and that they don’t know what the plan of the next steps will be although they have expressed that we have engaged positively since the very beginning and that no DV has been present for many years also.
Thank you for your understanding.

Come on OP, you know he hurt your baby - you've always known. It was just easier to plead ignorance rather than admit you were choosing a new relationship over your child.

With or without him you shouldn't be allowed to keep your newborn. You failed to protect your baby, covered for your partners abuse for years and didn't fight for contact with your first.

No one believes you've suddenly had an epiphany tonight within the 3 hours between your first and second post. There is no way social services will believe you - you've just learned to say the 'right things', but they're used to disguised compliance, thankfully.

I know I sound harsh and I really don't want to boot you when you're down but you need to be aware of how ludicrous you sound, even just the contrast between your first 2 posts. Totally unbelievable that you would have a sudden change of heart within 3 hours when you've stuck with this child abuser for 11 years.

You say you were a victim of DV from your boyfriend but you don't suspect that your second child (what happened to the first?) was seriously injured and abused by the man who hurt you? Poor baby. It's good that he lives with his dad and is kept far away from the people who abused him. Why did you choose to have another baby with a violent man?

If it wasn't you who harmed your child, then you know who it was and you never disclosed it. That person harmed your baby and got them taken off you, you haven't seen the child in 10 years yet you still haven't disclosed it? Would you let this person keep a child?

I'm a retired CP social worker. Your social workers are acting entirely correctly in acting to protect your second child. I too would be considering removing this child to ensure it is safe. There is no consistency in what you are saying and it is clear either you or your partner harmed your first child. Even if you leave your current partner there is no guarantee your child won't be removed.

I have no reason to lie to them or be dishonest I really want to do this on my own with support and keep my unborn safe I owe it to my child and my pervious child also.

You have every reason to lie, you’ve lied to yourself and to the authorities about what happened to your child, are you now going to tell them that he was the one who harmed your baby? Let them involve the police and have him charged?

Saying you’ll leave him is one thing, actually doing that is quite another. He’s told you he won’t engage with services even knowing that means the baby will likely be removed. There may not have been violence in the relationship for a while, but it’s still obviously abusive - maybe he’s got you so controlled he doesn’t need to hit you anymore.

In any case leaving will be hard. I’d speak to social work and explain you want to leave, they will be able to help. I’d do this without linking it to keeping your baby or not - because they will need to see evidence of consistent change and be sure he’s out of the picture and there may not be enough time to see that before the baby arrives. You’re also going to need to admit to them that he hurt your child and let those dice fall as they will.

You have a long road to go here, and social work aren’t going to smile and nod and say everything is fine because you’re not with him. You stayed with him, lied to protect him and put yourself in the frame for seriously hurting your baby, that’s not easily brushed away. Leave him for your own sake, because you deserve much better, do the work with services because you need to understand how to protect yourself first and foremost and then think about what it means for you to parent this new baby.

Wait...you're still with the man who broke your first baby's ribs? And you've not seen this child for its entire life as a result?

You failed your first child enormously. I hope social services manage to protect your unborn child and that I won't be crying at a news article about another murdered baby in the near future.

As a social worker I can tell you I would be extremely worried and I would be advocating for a care order and separation at birth. This is because you didn't leave your partner when he (likely) abused your baby and you chose to stay with him and believe he didn't do it (when either he did or you did - and if you didn't do it then you know it was him)
On top of that he's been domestically abusive and while you think he hasn't been for 7 years I don't believe that's really the case because abusers don't stop abusing- likely he may have stop physically hurting you but that doesn't mean he stopped abusing you.
You also say he doesn't want to engage with the assessments so he doesn't have any insight or responsibility for changing which means he won't change.
You say you'll leave him but you didn't leave him when he hurt your older baby, you didn't leave him when they took your baby into care or during the care proceedings. The chance of you leaving him now is low.
BUT if you genuinely do leave him, they are unlikely to be able to take your baby away. But you can't 'pretend' or weaken and take him back because they WILL find out and they WILL have the evidence they need to remove the baby.

That poor baby. I hope this mysterious injuries don't happen again.

I am working with a family where there was domestic abuse. The mother was warned time and time again that this was causing emotional harm to the children ( there was never any suggestion of physical harm). She split from the perpetrator numerous times but always resumed some form of relationship with him, claiming he had changed- until the next DV incident. Every time, she promised that they were over and the children were more important than the relationship.It got to the point where she was warned that,should she resume a relationship with him one more time, the children would be removed. She agreed she wouldn't. The case was then closed to Children's Services with a court order in place. She thought she wouldn't be caught and, after a while, the relationship was begun again. Someone in the local community informed Children's services and the children were removed immediately.
If you say the relationship has ended, you really need to mean it. Even so, there is a risk that Children's services might feel the danger to your child is too great.

You have stayed with someone who broke your babies ribs for 11 years? I hope your baby is removed at birth.

You haven't seen your first born in 10 years after your partner has caused injuries and you decided to stay with this person and have a baby, well what do you think will happen? You need to step outside of the box and look from the outside focusing in and see what picture there is.

You failed to protect your first baby from harm.
You stayed in a relationship where domestic abuse occurred.
When your baby was hurt you stayed with the man who probably harmed your baby.
You chose to stay with that man rather than have contact with your own child for 10 years???
You are having another baby with this man???
You only now, think it may be a good idea to separate??

Sorry but yes I do hope this baby can be removed. You clearly do not recognise danger.

*To be blunt (I'm experienced in this area of the law) if they already have a child protection order, the high chances are they will want your baby removed.

They won't tell you that, though, for many reasons and will deny it if you ask them. That's why they have the order so they can easily remove your baby.*

This is factually and objectively incorrect. There's no such thing as a 'child protection order' for starters.

OP you are going to experience an awful lot of scrutiny over this pregnancy, whatever the outcome you deserve to understand what is happening - the Family Rights Group are a reputable charity that support parents in exactly your situation.

You aren't experienced in this area of the law because there is no such thing as a child protection order. Maybe you're mixing it up with care order? If they have a care order they legally cannot 'deny' anything of the sort. Please don't post blatantly incorrect information and pretend you know what you're talking about.

I'm sorry but i do judge you for this one reason, IF my child was hurt and i KNEW i hadn't done it then i would 10000% believe it was my partner. I don't care how much i love him i would have left him in case he had actually harmed my child. I would not risk that i was sleeping in the same bed as the man that hurt my baby and caused me to lose my baby.

I also then wouldn't go having another baby with that person. you couldn't protect your first child ( I'm sure there were signs I'm sorry but fractures???they fricking hurt) also you say no DV for 7 years, that means there was previously???

So are you saying there was DV when you had your first child in which case who DO you think possibly hurt your child .. It doesn't take a genius.

As a health professional who safeguards newborns, I would be very surprised if you don't at least go through some kind of parenting assessment.

What baffles me however, is that either you or your partner at the time seriously harmed your small baby. You maintain you didn't do it so therefore your partner did, and you've decided to have another baby with him? I would assume that given the fact your baby was referred to hospital, any genetic issues that could have caused/contributed to the injuries were ruled out and they then classified them as non-accidental. How can you then prove that you're a place of safety for the new child if you failed to safeguard your first?

I've worked with mums before where they've been able to keep their baby on the promise that the father is not involved or has supervised contact.

You say there's been no domestic violence in however many years but you know how stressful having a newborn can be, throw in some sleepless nights, change in routine, general frustrations and then you've got a recipe for another disaster.

My best advice to you would be to engage fully and honestly with social services and maternity staff and seriously consider leaving your partner if they suggest this is the route to keeping your baby with you.

I'd like to tell you it'll be all roses however having worked with a family where the partner was jailed for shaking his first child so badly they were paralysed, then beating his new pregnant partner and their oldest child, nothing surprises me anymore.

To say I haven’t made any effort to see my previous child is very unfair! I took that back t court twice and mediation (if a parent doses not attend the other pays the fee and yet that was me time and time again) twice spend thousands of pounds and yet my pervious child’s father continues to refuse contact even after a contact order was given my the judge. I warned them it would happen and in paper work states mother prediction proved right and a judge agreed he will always chose himself rather then my child’s wellbeing and that of a solicitor too to say “I was helping a friend” when he should of been providing contact that day really is no excuse contact is a given right not a privilege, so I would very much like to clear that up to some comments made, after a few years of trying I had to think of my own wellbeing and leave it until my child was old enough to make their own mind up at an age where his father was no longer controlling his state of mind and yes that’s abuse in its self and not putting the needs of my child deprivation of liberty comes to mind do you realise how damaging that is to someone’s state of mind to be constantly denied access even under a court order??
As for the farther to this baby yes I will not be continuing a relationship from here on nor in the future, I’ve been naive this whole time but am certainly not stupid! Yes I did leave him a couple of times and reconnect the relationship again and again this is where I did go wrong, and put the needs of him before my own and that of my child, I certainly do not want to do it again this time round. I know it’s going to take more then just words to convince others let that alone of SS and it’s going to a very hard working road to complete. I just hope to god that I do get to keep my baby who is due to arrive in a handful of weeks and leave the hospital with just the two of us. May I ask why am I being given a virtual baby to be assessed with if they think am a danger? SS date in their report that LPM is required due to my baby being born quite soon, it’s positive myself and the babies farther are engaging well with the SW and MW. It is positive that there is no evidence of any domestic abuse in our relationship for 6 years however they are worried that there has been no shift or change in respect to the understanding of the injuries caused and this would therefore suggest that our baby will be at risk of significant once born. Now this really worries me and therefore in the best possible way and in my unborn baby’s interest is to walk away from this relationship and solely work on myself and my baby with the help of all the services provided, is this not a good thing for me to have to do to do what’s right and best? Please tell me if am wrong because I feel in my heart I stay in this delusional relationship don't work with professionals to maintain a good mental health status (I did counselling and CBT after court as in the psychological assessment in court proceedings suggested I Would need to make significant changes in order to be able to parent safely and consistently) I feel won’t have a fighting chance to keep my baby and prove to myself and anyone else am capable and at no risk and that I can do this if I strongly if I don’t make theses changes. Yes the father to my child is not happy and feels I’ve ruined his life and taken everything away but if I remain and do nothing to change this situation or myself then I’ll be the one that’s taken everything away and that my unborn baby no one else but me because the wrong decision Am seriously asking what more do I have to do to keep my child and live a fulfilled life for the two of us and to prove and convince everyone including the LA I do deserve this am not dismissive of being under a very watchful eye for however long that maybe. I fully understand why they are being cautious and by no means do I think that they would not take risks their job is not easy and if something was to go wrong it’s down to them so please don’t think I don’t understand or see their point of view because I do and the severity and significant impact of my last case it’s a high risk. It may have taken a little too long to realise but I seriously do now and the fact I can do something about it before my baby is born with hopefully the help and support of the SW and of LA this can achievable. I’ll happily consent to mother and baby units and even a supervision order as long as it doesn’t result in care proceedings of removal. Unfortunate I don’t have family members as they are no longer living so I only have the support of a few friends and of local services that would be made available to me. Please do give me your feed back and advice I know some will be blunt and harsh and that’s understandable but please don’t be cruel, some of the comments have been quite upsetting and hard to swallow to say the least am sure some would understand that , the past decade has not been easy but am very much willing to make these changes for me and my baby alone Nino e else.

But you've both spent the last decade maintaining neither of you hurt the first baby, so even if you split up why are SS going to assume the new baby is safe with you? It could just as easily be you who hurt your first baby, not your partner. They don't know. If I knew I hadn't done it I'd have left my partner quicker than a flash because it must have been them. So the fact you didn't could also be seen as that it was either of you or both of you together. We (and SS) just have your word that it was your partner who hurt the baby, not you. But you've proven on many occasions according to your own posts that your promises and words don't mean anything. How are we supposed to believe that it wasn't you who hurt your child? I'm sure your partner would deny it was him just as strongly.

Of course your ex fought tooth and nail to stop you having any contact with the child you abused/allowed to be abused - no parent in their right mind would allow an abusive person anywhere near their baby if they can help it.
You need to stop blaming your previous baby's dad. YOU chose your abusive partner over your baby - no one else did that to you, you chose it.

If you have a chance of moving forward you need to understand and accept what you did in the past.
You moved a violent, unrelated man in with your tiny helpless children
That man severely abused your baby
You chose to stay with that man and prioritise your relationship with him and let your baby go
You then continued for 10 years to choose your baby's abuser instead of trying to have contact with your child.

If I was the other child’s father I’d also fight tooth and nail and ignore any court orders in order to protect my child from further harm in your care, supervised or not

Sorry OP you've had 6/7/8 months to think about your unborn baby's best interests and how to best safeguard them once they are born. There will have been countless professionals telling you for the last 10 years how to safeguard yourself, better yourself. Everything you post rings massive alarm bells and I feel you have just posted so you can 'learn' what to say. However my input would be CBT is not the best therapy for BPD and I would speak to a mental health professional about this.

How could you have stayed with a man who hurt a baby? Just how?

In your OP you say the baby that was abused was your second child. What happened to your first child?

Do you live together? When is your due date? Can these changes be made in time?

May I ask why am I being given a virtual baby to be assessed with if they think am a danger?

because they have to assess you. It's the law.

I’ll happily consent to mother and baby units and even a supervision order as long as it doesn’t result in care proceedings of removal

a supervision order can only be granted through care proceedings. I'd be very surprised if you avoid care proceedings. Your best option is to request a parent and baby placement, then seek to be housed in a new area under domestic abuse provisions, engage with DV services, go to court and get protective orders and genuinely have nothing to do with this man again.