Child protection

[Fairypick]

Hi, this is my story and am looking for any advice or guidance in regards to my post. Please don’t judge.

Almost 10 years ago I had my second child and at around 8 months old they sustained unexplained none accidental injuries these were the injuries caused from the Drs review:
2014 baby was presented by his mother at his GP surgery with bruising and swelling to his feet, she was unable to offer any explanation to how an immobile child could have sustained these injuries, baby was then referred to Hospital and examined by a doctor. Baby was found to have linear bruising on the tops of the right foot as well as bruising on the tip of the right big toe and diffuse bruising on the soles of both feet. There was also a small 0.5 superficial scratch on top of baby’s chest and a small 5mm linear bruise on the posterior aspect of baby’s left ear. A skeletal survey also found baby to have 6 healing fractures to the ribs, which appeared to be old ones.
There were concerns that the injuries may have been caused by either mother or her partner (not the. Baby’s farther) and they were arrested and bailed with no further action due to no evidence an interim court order was granted. It is noted that in a court of law and family court the judge determined either mother or her partner had caused the injuries and a Lancashire finding was accepted as neither mother or partner were accepting responsibility for causing the injuries that baby had sustained although the blamed each other at the time of the incident.
As part of this section 47 enquiry SW spoken to both in question about the injuries and they both remain clear that they did not cause the injuries to baby nor can they explain what happened or how it happened. Mother also shared that if she had of caused the injuries she would not have taken her baby to get treatment as she knows this would have got her into trouble. Almost 11 years on me and my partner are now expecting our first baby together, there has been no DV in almost 7 years and we have remained very positive in our relationship since and very much looking forward to the arrival of our new born baby. We were made subjected to a child protection order in January due to a referral and we were very open and honest about this, we have worked very closely openly and honestly with the LA since the order was made and have never dismissed anything to them. We are due to have a review conference shortly before our baby is born and we currently scored a 3 and this still remains a score of 3 in the report from the SW before the next review meeting. However despite working extremely hard and jumping through many hoops we were informed that they will be seeking legal advice and can not define an answer as to what will happen next this was not mentioned in the very first meeting, we have completed all the assessments and tasks even agreed to any plan needed to ensure we get to be a family and keep our newborn baby, no pre birth plan has been completed yet either. The reason being that that they are seeking legal advice from what they have said is is that we are both saying now that we don’t think either of us caused the injuries, LA didn’t realise the seriousness of the past case either. We have consent to having a virtual baby for 48hrs and will do anything in our power to show and demonstrate we are no risk at all. We understand that they have a duty to ensure children are protected and especially newborn a babies we have never dismissed that, yes it’s difficult to tell what happened or why it happened as we do not know ourself, yes I admit I did at that time failed to safeguard my child who sadly sustained injuries. What am asking is really what do you think will happen, do we stand a chance of keeping our newborn baby and maintaining as a family unit or are we losing a fighting battle that we have worked so very hard for? I fully understand their worries and concerns but surely with a lot of positives and the length of time passed we could be given a chance at this? We are more then happy to be placed in a mother and baby unit, a foster placement or a supervision order, the last thing we want is to have our baby removed. Any advice or experience would be much appreciated and please don’t judge we are not horrible bad people just two people who would very much like the opportunity to show we can care, protect and love our child to the best of our ability with the support of the LA until they feel satisfied that the risks are no longer there. Yes they have expressed in their report that they think the new born baby will potentially be at significant risk of harm when born, but surely if we are not given a chance to prove this wrong they is that not fair at all? We have been told to keep providing for our baby and that they don’t know what the plan of the next steps will be although they have expressed that we have engaged positively since the very beginning and that no DV has been present for many years also.
Thank you for your understanding.

This thread will be gone in 5..4...3..2....1...

What was the referral for in January?

Is this the same man you were with when the previous baby got hurt? if it wasn't you it was him, and if you want to keep this baby, you are going to have to leave him and put A LOT of distance between the two of you

No dv for many years, so there was when your baby had the injuries and fractured ribs?

I'm so confused, OP states at the beginning her second child sustained injuries, but then later says she's expecting her first child? Also the partner she was with when the second baby was injured wasn't the father. How many BD's are there? Where are all the children?

My interpretation is that:
OP got pregnant with A. Had baby with A nearly 12 years ago. By the time the baby was 8 months old she was living with B. Either the OP or B seriously injured the baby. Baby was probably removed. Possibly to A, possibly to care. OP stayed with B, despite apparently being sure she hadn't injured the baby, so she would in that case have known that B had injured the baby. Over the next 4 years, there was domestic violence in the relationship with B. The OP is now pregnant with B's baby. Thankfully social services has realised that this has disaster written all over it, and hopefully will safeguard the innocent vulnerable baby.

I may, of course, have misread some of this. But seems the most likely interpretation.

I am sure you really do believe you are not horrible, bad people. I am sure you feel like you didn't mean to injure and hurt your baby as much as you did.

You are only human and you were young and under pressure and you only lost your temper for a little while and it could happen to anyone. You didn't realise how easy it is to break babies' ribs and bruise them and scratch them. Anyone could have done it. You were just unlucky really.

A statement analysis of your post makes it clear that you do know how the baby was hurt, that one or both of you were responsible for those injuries and that you are fully aware of this.

You continue to dodge responsibility for what you did or acknowledge how terribly wrong it was. You minimise the harm done to your baby and your post focuses only on yourselves and what you want now.

Social Services are right to be extremely concerned about your unborn baby's future welfare. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

Newborn babies are one hell of a stressor and if SS misjudge the situation and get this wrong, the price the child will be forced to pay is much too high.

“We have consent for a virtual baby for 48 hours”

@Fairypick they are going to seek an emergency protection order as soon as you give birth, and are going to let you stay with the baby for 48 hours in hospital before they remove the infant.

The only chance you have is if you tell the truth about what happened to your second baby, and you leave the man who was involved with all of this.

You are in cloud cuckoo land, otherwise.

You will never be allowed to keep a baby with this man, innocent yourself or not.

BTW i do not buy that there is no DV anymore in your relationship, speak to Women's Aid, save yourself, or your life will be worth nothing, just a trail of alienated children, and you a wreck of your former self.

I feel very sad for you.

yes it’s difficult to tell what happened or why it happened as we do not know ourself, yes I admit I did at that time failed to safeguard my child who sadly sustained injuries

That makes me feel a bit sick.

You’ve had good advice from people who know much more than I do. I’m glad professionals are trying to protect this baby and my heart breaks for the one you allowed to be so injured. Just horrifying.

@Fairypick this thread isn't going to help you. You need to engage with SS and you need to accept that nobody will believe that you don't know what happened. It was either you or him, yes?

Are you having a baby with the same partner as the first baby, Where is that child now?
Even if you are now with someone else it doesn't look good to be honest, somebody caused those injuries.

Those poor kids

Wow! Some of the comments have been very honest and I respect that and some well I think have been quite nasty an un call for. I have full understanding as to why they have concerns I have never dismissed this from the very beginning and I will do anything in my power to have my newborn baby. My previous child is with his birth farther who was ordered to let me have contact with but has dismissed the court order and therefore I have not seen my pervious child in 10 years this is extremely sad for me as you can imagine, the baby am expecting now is with my current partner who at the time looked after my pervious child who sustained the injuries. I certainly did not cause the injuries and when the bruising to his foot was found I was not the one who was currently in his care at that time but the next day I discovered them and because my child could not weigh bear on this foot and showed signs of distress and discomfort I knew something was not right at all and sought further assistance. I certainly did not cause these injuries to my pervious child how could I hurt my own baby! I work in a very professional job of looking after vulnerable people and children that visit my place of work and have done this for almost 20 years yes that dose not subside from what happen in the past and is irrelevant at this time I do not have a criminal record either. Yes I failed to safeguard my baby that am guilty of, yes it really isn’t good I can’t give an explanation for what happened/why it happened this still puts myself in the pool of perpetrators and that is SS main concern am certainly not going to allow it to happen again this time round! I’ve had a lot of time to think and my due date is approaching very quickly, I do strongly feel that perhaps by leaving the current relationship before my baby is born and have safety plans in place this may help my case to where I can care for my child solely on my own, I have no intention of residing in any other relationship that of one of this babies farther, yes there was history of DV there has not been for quite some years but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen in the future and I can’t predict it will or won’t. So I feel I need to prioritise my unborn baby’s safety and future by leaving this relationship becoming a single parent, working with the CPP and SS before my baby is due yes I should of done it sooner and maybe I wasn’t thinking clearly because the thought of having a family was my main goal, my goal is to put my newborn baby first ensure they and me are safe at all costs, I want to show them
that I fully understand and show the shift in changes and concerns before my delivery am not sure if it’s too late or if I have a fighting chance by doing this. I have informed the babies farther of my intentions and wish to not continue with the relationship, he has also expressed he will want nothing to do with the continuing assessments or that of the CPP. My worry is that I have little support my family unfortunately are no longer living and this put me as a vulnerable target to SS. Ive proved am not on any form of substance misuse, have engaged with all services that were suggested to me am happy to self refer to any MH programmes as in my last case my phycological assessment deemed I had a borderline personality disorder, yet after the case I did have a councillor and completed CBT course off my own back although I can’t evidence this. What will give me a fighting chance for me to have my baby, as my unborn baby means more to me then any man or relationship of that and I just want to be given an chance if doing it on my own Will make a difference I will do it my baby means so much more at this point and will for the rest of my life. I live with what happened to my pervious child every single day and it traumatises me also what happened was awful not to mention the impact that had on my child at that time and for their rest of their lives, I have shown and expressed throughout this process what the concerns are, what the risks still remain of that but am willing to put my hands up and state I put my child in danger and continued a relationship with a potential perpetrator who has hurt me in the past physically and mentally, I’ve completed the freedom courses and I know DV is not acceptable let that alone of the presents of a child either! A mothers role is to protect and that’s something I want to prove this time
round with support and by doing solo at that! I will discuss this with the SW and also express this in my pre birth assessment that info think it’s wise to not have my unborn baby’s farther at the birth and to seek help from
the police to ensure he stays away as far as possible from the both of us. I do hope that by really thinking and I do is the best plan of action to ensure I keep my baby in my care and that perhaps SS will think differently to not seek removal of my unborn baby. I would appreciate any advice/feed back or insight to whether am doing the right thing here? I just hope it’s not too late.

Posted before update.
There's some good advice in this thread about how to engage with social services. The OP got her kids back. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/4356138-my-kids-were-taken-away-from-me-by-ss-for-5-years-ama?page=1

I feel for you @Fairypick but your baby was seriously injured in the care of you and your DP and apparently no one knows why. Ribs don't get fractured accidentally. SS most important job is to safeguard children, that's it. If you can't say what happened you can't say that risk has been mitigated because we've done x,y,z to make sure it never happens again. You say this baby was your second child, what happened to this baby and your first child? Are either still in your care?

Almost 11 years on me and my partner are now expecting our first baby together, there has been no DV in almost 7 years and we have remained very positive in our relationship since and very much looking forward to the arrival of our new born baby. There was DV in your relationship, but you're still denying to yourself that your abusive partner could have lost it and abused your baby? The OP in the thread I've posted please read her experiences, it might open your eyes. The best bet you have of keeping this baby is to separate from your DP. While you're both busy denying it I don't think there's any other answer that will mean you keep your baby.

eta: OP you keep saying what happened to your baby. I would not feel a child was safe with a mother that kept saying she didn't know what happened. If you didn't do it and it was only you and your DP looking after the child, then you know who did it. This didn't happen to your baby, it was done to your baby.

Its great to see you are willing to leave to protect your baby. I think leaving is your only shot. No one can say if it's enough or too late. Focus on the practicalities. You need to seperate and live apart asap, cut financial ties, show you're stuff is both at seperate places whether he moves out or you do. If you dont have the finance's available to move out Id consider going to a refuge. The fact he's no longer committing obvious DV, doesn't mean everythings ok and it would be very valid to say that you feel things would escalate after birth. Stress points often do this. Seperate fast and thoroughly. I think it would help if SS can see that you aren't pretending to yourself as well as them that you don't know the answer to how your baby got abused on two occasions. The ribs were an earlier seperate abusive incidence. If it was you please take responsibility anr get some help. If it was him please stop covering for an abuser. New babies are really stressful, you need to make sure your safe around baby too. I know statistically its much more likely it was him, but we don't know you and my concern is for the innocent baby at the heart of this. If you had PND or other struggles with your first please proactively get help and support before this baby is here.

When I wrote "you" in my earlier post I meant you plural so you and/or your partner, not necessarily you personally.

You say that your partner had the care of your baby when the injuries were sustained. As others have said, if you knew categorically that you personally had not abused your baby, the only conclusion you could draw was that your partner had done it.

And yet you continued to share your life with a man who was capable of such violence, and who caused you to lose custody of your child. You felt it was a good idea to conceive another child and plan a family and future with him.

SS will be very concerned about your poor judgements here and will be sceptical that you have apparently realised so late in the day that he is not suitable husband and father material.

They will think there is a possibility you are misleading them about your intentions to keep him away from you and your child, in the future.

I am not saying any of this to stick the boot in but to illustrate the likely thinking.

What happened to your first child? Have you had the care and custody of them?

That's a considerable flip from your initial post. Of course that piece of shit hurt your baby and effectively got rid of them - as the baby's father had no reasonable choice than to cut you off as you've stayed with him, thus making it unsafe for the child to have any sort of relationship with you. Your partner took your baby away from you and it's only by a miracle that's by the father protecting them and not through death.

I don't know if your sudden change will be enough to convince them. They might think you're lying and he'll be back and breaking your next baby's bones within a few days - or that you'll just go on and repeat the cycle with another potential baby murderer. But if you even think for a moment that he has changed and it'll be all OK if you just have a chance/are lying to them - well, it won't and you'll definitely not see this one again, either.

Exactly

You put your abusive partner before your own children, although you might well have been abusive too

This baby will be protected. Shame on you

Seriously???
I don't think you'll be deemed safe to keep baby, and nor should you be
You're still with the abuser and there has still been DV
Wake up!!!

I know it’s a big shift from my original post, but I’ve really come to to think what’s more important putting my unborn baby at risk or leaving this relationship to save me and my baby lives to live a better healthier one at that! The fact he has stated that he’ll want no involvement with the current assessments indicates to me that he really doesn’t care or of that how serious this is CP is not so lightly is very serious, and by me making this big change I just hope to god it really dose make a difference to them. I have no intentions or interest in consuming this relationship or of another one not while am in the care of baby either. My goal and focus is my unborn baby, I have no reason to lie to them or be dishonest I really want to do this on my own with support and keep my unborn safe I owe it to my child and my pervious child also. Like I have said am happy to go through the right channels in order for him to stay away and do what ever courses I need to do with the help of organisations and that of the SW and the LA, I just do hope this gos in my favour and I get given the chance. My next confidence meeting is Monday and my due date is weeks away It’s made to realise from the posts stated by others that I think I have been brain washed by him thinking yeh we can be a family and the relationship was fine because there was no DV for some time but an abusers only changes their tactics not the behaviour and yet he could and most certainly cause harm to this a baby too I really am telling the truth I didn’t harm my last child I just didn’t safe guard how I should of at that time and that’s where I failed by placing them in the reach of someone dangerous and unpredictable, I let the arms of an abuser hurt my baby and am not allowing it again I need to be given the chance to show this and I know it’s going to be hard work at that and a lot to prove too. my last child was not his and I do think there was some resentment there. Am quite a clever person when I do put my mind to it and now I’ve seen that I can’t take the risk of him being around my newborn child or thinking we could be a family, I feel so stupid really to think otherwise just hope it’s not too little too late for me and my baby now, with only weeks left to go. The farther will be out of our lives for good I’ve stood my ground with him and told him I’ll chose my unborn child over you any day to keep my a baby, I know some may this this is far fetched from what I thought originally but this again is an a abusers tactic to make you see things not so clearly when all along I think I was still being abused mentally and made me live in a world that wasn’t real, I’ve finally woken up and I think without an outsider telling me to see the realities of this I would of probably of put a high price of losing my unborn child at a cost that just not worth it, my new baby is my life and the only one I need moving forward, if there’s anything else I should be doing please do inform
me, am greatly grateful for peoples input and advice please do see me as being very sincere and I do apologise that I had been so foolish to think the opposite others perspective from the other side of the face doe really open your eyes more! So a thank you for being g upfront and honest, I really am not a bad person just someone who has made a huge mistake in my choosing of men and at a huge cost of my last child and willing to make things right moving forward and for the future of my me and my baby.

So either you or your partner repeatedly assaulted a baby and got away with it based on a technicality. You yourself said to SW if it was you wouldn't have sought treatment for the injuries. You've also not fought to see the child that was abused in your home. Now you want to know if SW will be happy you and the other accused abuser are having another child. Probably not.

Okay, assuming for a moment that you are being completely honest and upfront. They will not believe that you're going to leave your abusive partner honest. Because they have heard that so many times before. You'd have to leave now, and demonstrate that you are already not in contact with him. And that you accept that any contact would jeopardise any chance of taking your baby home. You would have to recognise that if you didn't seriously injure your baby (and broken ribs in an 8 month old is a lot of force) then it must have been the other person "caring" for him, and that is your abusive partner. You would need to recognise that you are fucking lucky your first baby is lucky to be alive. Do you know in what context broken ribs are most commonly seen in babies? Shaken baby syndrome. Which can cause brain damage or even death. That's how serious it was. The bruises, whilst very worrying, were the tiniest tip of the iceberg. You would have to recognise how incomprehensible it is to any normal person that you stayed with a partner who, if you had not injured your baby, was the one who had. A more natural reaction, frankly, would have been begging for him to be locked up. Women who pick an abusive partner over their child can generally not be trusted to safeguard their children. You need to do absolutely everything and anything social services ask you to do. And ask if there is anything else you can do,

Do all that, and stick to it, and you would perhaps have a small chance of keeping your baby with heavy social services supervision. But believe me they would be doing unscheduled visits, and any sign of your abusive partner and your baby would be gone. Social workers get a bad press, but they're not thick. And their job is not to give you a chance. It's to protect your baby.

Pulling out some key information from what you have said -

• You have been with your partner for 11 years where child abuse and DV has occurred.
• failure to conclude how the injuries occurred.
• admission of inability to safeguard.
• you were granted contact with your first child which the birth father with held - you made no attempt to legally challenge this.

You have been with your partner for quite a length of time despite a child being injured and DV occurring. Although you suggest leaving him in order to have your baby, I would argue that there is a high chance of you going back to him which puts the baby at risk.

No conclusion to who definitively harmed your first born suggests you are both a risk to this child regardless of whether he is involved or not.

“yes I admit I did at that time failed to safeguard my child who sadly sustained injuries.” So even if it wasn’t you that harmed your first born, you weren’t capable of keeping them safe? Your are currently in the same relationship and there is a risk of the same reoccurring.

Not legally challenging contact arrangements with your first born is another concern, my first thought is you chose your partner over your son.

“fully understand their worries and concerns but surely with a lot of positives and the length of time passed
we could be given a chance at this?”

Child protection is paramount and no risks will be taken and therefor they don’t take “chances”.

With the risks categorised as high and based on the information given I would suggest it would be highly unlikely for you to take baby home after birth.

Doesn’t necessarily rule out other options such as mother and baby placements or baby going to live with a family member.

You need to think about fleeing far, far away from him. Relocate completely and cut all ties. Tell SS you are ready and willing to do this and ask for their guidance and help to do it.

You may still not be allowed to keep your baby in the short term, but if you do all that is asked and expected of you, there may be a better chance that you will be allowed access and even custody in the medium to long term.

I work alongside safeguarding and genuinely doubt there’s any chance at all that you’ll be able to keep your baby. They’ll likely be removed after birth

ive also been through DV but not lost a child, and through no fault of your own it does cloud your judgement and I have no doubt you’ll have long term trauma through how long you’ve been with this man and what he’s subjected you to.

in the nicest way possible, with such a quick turn around from your OP, they’re not in the slightest going to be sure that you can provide stability for this child or safeguard the child with changing your stance so soon before birth. As someone else has said, a lot will say similar and go back because with DV occurring in a relationship, they’re clever and will make you thihk you can’t be without them. I don’t want to generalise but I’ve been there and genuinely don’t think any services in the IK would be prepared to take that risk when your previous child easily could have died and you’ve been in a relationship with that same man that has clearly caused that harm if it genuinely wasn’t you. I do feel for you if you’ve been under the influence of this man but as a professional myself, I 110% don’t think this will turn out the way you want and have seen babies removed at birth for a lot less than your situation