Page 6 | Child protection

Fairypick · 2024-05-11T20:42:32+00:00

Hi, this is my story and am looking for any advice or guidance in regards to my post. Please don’t judge. Almost 10 years ago I had my second child and at around 8 months old they sustained unexplained none accidental injuries these were the injuries caused from the Drs review: 2014 baby was presented by his mother at his GP surgery with bruising and swelling to his feet, she was unable to offer any explanation to how an immobile child could have sustained these injuries, baby was then referred to Hospital and examined by a doctor. Baby was found to have linear bruising on the tops of the right foot as well as bruising on the tip of the right big toe and diffuse bruising on the soles of both feet. There was also a small 0.5 superficial scratch on top of baby’s chest and a small 5mm linear bruise on the posterior aspect of baby’s left ear. A skeletal survey also found baby to have 6 healing fractures to the ribs, which appeared to be old ones. There were concerns that the injuries may have been caused by either mother or her partner (not the. Baby’s farther) and they were arrested and bailed with no further action due to no evidence an interim court order was granted. It is noted that in a court of law and family court the judge determined either mother or her partner had caused the injuries and a Lancashire finding was accepted as neither mother or partner were accepting responsibility for causing the injuries that baby had sustained although the blamed each other at the time of the incident. As part of this section 47 enquiry SW spoken to both in question about the injuries and they both remain clear that they did not cause the injuries to baby nor can they explain what happened or how it happened. Mother also shared that if she had of caused the injuries she would not have taken her baby to get treatment as she knows this would have got her into trouble. Almost 11 years on me and my partner are now expecting our first baby together, there has been no DV in almost 7 years and we have remained very positive in our relationship since and very much looking forward to the arrival of our new born baby. We were made subjected to a child protection order in January due to a referral and we were very open and honest about this, we have worked very closely openly and honestly with the LA since the order was made and have never dismissed anything to them. We are due to have a review conference shortly before our baby is born and we currently scored a 3 and this still remains a score of 3 in the report from the SW before the next review meeting. However despite working extremely hard and jumping through many hoops we were informed that they will be seeking legal advice and can not define an answer as to what will happen next this was not mentioned in the very first meeting, we have completed all the assessments and tasks even agreed to any plan needed to ensure we get to be a family and keep our newborn baby, no pre birth plan has been completed yet either. The reason being that that they are seeking legal advice from what they have said is is that we are both saying now that we don’t think either of us caused the injuries, LA didn’t realise the seriousness of the past case either. We have consent to having a virtual baby for 48hrs and will do anything in our power to show and demonstrate we are no risk at all. We understand that they have a duty to ensure children are protected and especially newborn a babies we have never dismissed that, yes it’s difficult to tell what happened or why it happened as we do not know ourself, yes I admit I did at that time failed to safeguard my child who sadly sustained injuries. What am asking is really what do you think will happen, do we stand a chance of keeping our newborn baby and maintaining as a family unit or are we losing a fighting battle that we have worked so very hard for? I fully understand their worries and concerns but surely with a lot of positives and the length of time passed we could be given a chance at this? We are more then happy to be placed in a mother and baby unit, a foster placement or a supervision order, the last thing we want is to have our baby removed. Any advice or experience would be much appreciated and please don’t judge we are not horrible bad people just two people who would very much like the opportunity to show we can care, protect and love our child to the best of our ability with the support of the LA until they feel satisfied that the risks are no longer there. Yes they have expressed in their report that they think the new born baby will potentially be at significant risk of harm when born, but surely if we are not given a chance to prove this wrong they is that not fair at all? We have been told to keep providing for our baby and that they don’t know what the plan of the next steps will be although they have expressed that we have engaged positively since the very beginning and that no DV has been present for many years also. Thank you for your understanding.

Robotshavetakenoverthenavy · 12/05/2024 11:28

People don't want to give you advice because they don't think you should get to keep your baby.

People aren't being horrible just for the sake of it and to make you feel bad. The things people are saying are true and if they make you feel bad then that's just the way it is, unfortunately. When a child is at risk, your feelings come at the bottom of the pile.

You're not coming across as sincere so people aren't going to take pity on you.

I know I'm sick to death of reading stories of child abuse in the news and wishing those parents hadn't been allowed to reproduce. I've sat through countless safeguarding courses and cried at the horrible things people have done to their children. Frankly, I don't care about your feelings in all of this. I think what you did to your first child, directly or indirectly, is unforgivable and you shouldn't be allowed the opportunity to repeat it.

johntorodesfatcheeks · 12/05/2024 11:28

@Fairypick
you are full of shit and full of excuses.

AllCatsAreAutistic · 12/05/2024 11:31

People like you should not have children.

liveforsummer · 12/05/2024 11:36

To keep it very simple - it looks here like you have suddenly done a 360 turn when it's been pointed out the only tiny hope is to leave your partner so you've said what you think we want to hear to convince us. That's how it's good to look to SS too. Realistically, after all this time you have had a sudden genuine realisation that it's the right thing to do and he's actually terrible. It's just being said to achieve your goal and as will see through that in an instant. Especially at this late stage! I'd bank on you being back with partner within days of baby being born (if you ever genuinely separate)

igomeow · 12/05/2024 11:40

Simple question that everyone wants you to answer..

WHY DID YOU STAY IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH A MAN WHO CAUSED BRUISING/MARKS AND RIB FRACTURES TO YOUR BABY?? STOP WAFFLING AND JUST AWNSER THIS QUESTION?

BodyKeepingScore · 12/05/2024 11:40

Fairypick · 12/05/2024 10:59

Do you understand how manipulated narcissists work? Have you been in this situation? Both of my child’s father's are of that!some situations where people are being abused takes years to leave so would you judge them for staying with an abuser for that amount of time due to safety , it takes time and planning to leave safely, yes I thought I could live a family life but guess what I’ve realised that’s not the case yes I should of done it sooner and this am very much guilty for on my part I take full responsibility of this and I want different to what decisions I made previously I didn’t harm my child I failed to safeguard that’s my guilt I put my child at risk and that’s my downfall I feel so ashamed I did that I put my child at risk and that’s what happened to my child I don’t have a criminal record I have an upstanding role in my job of 20 years in healthcare do you really think if I had done that to my child I would be allowed to work I such profession and placed on barring list? I think not I clearly would have been charged yet CP did not I was never taken to court. Am very shocked to think you think am manipulating this situation to think this will help my case not at all or to think it was myself that harmed my baby of that and to say your happy my ex refused to let me see my other child even under a court order by a judge deprivation of liberty is a form of abuse and he has been allowed to get away with that for years even a judge ruled that if he had his own way then he would never let me have contact he’s even stated that if my other child died I would never be told my other child has flat head syndrome and a speech issues while in his care why because he never repositioned him nor did he engaged in his early years he snatched because he thought I cheated on him and because he had OR he was allowed to do this! This is very concerning of your opinion no parent should be deprived of no contact unless a danger my contacts were supervised and very postive of that from previous reports stated I clearly live my child and no harm was ever come to them while having contact that’s not because I was carefully watched but because I very much love my baby. They are my world and they are the reason I keep going every single day Am trying to do what’s best here and for months and months there was never a mention of SS seeking legal advice and a LGM do you realise the emotional damage caused to be told and continue to provide everything for my unborn baby told everything is fine to now be told that this is the plan by the LA??bi absolutely broke down packing out hospital bags can you imagine how that feels? I really am shocked how some of you can really say such things yes I fully understand to some extent I truly do, I understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I do appreciate honesty but to say I don’t deserve to see my other child nor to be given a fighting chance for my newborn is very unfair yes I must change from here on out yes I’ve had years to do this but I didn’t plan to have another baby intentionally but am willing to do what ever it takes to try my very best to improve my life and situation future makings and judgment to ensure I can parent safely and efficiently! I’ve know others who actually hurt their child and admitted it got to keep their child and a further one also, another their child was killed by an animal and went on to have another yes my case is different to theirs and am not nice picking yes it really is not good that I stated I can’t give an explanation but the truth is I put my child in harms way that’s what happened , I’ve engaged all the way through done everything asked and more and now I could still lose any chance at being a mother! I did not come in here to find ways to cheat the system or to cheat out the LA but to reach out for support and advice yet I feel as though am being placed back in a court room yet again. Do you not think that what happened I don’t live with it for the rest of my days and life, it eats me up every single day I grieve everyday what’s happened that I failed I didn’t protect and I made a very poor judgment and my child suffered it’s haunted me and will do forever not to mention the impact it will have on my child growing up am so sorry to my child that I made such a very poor judgment in not safeguarding how I should of and that’s my fault Yes it maybe too late and I properly should of done something much sooner but had I known they would go from a CPP to seeking legal advice then yes I would of acted much quicker in my pregnancy yet I was reassured from the beginning that they were not looking at removal but to engage positively and not been so stupid to think otherwise. Am very hurt to see others say be wary to give advice I hope that someday you don’t need advice and feel so isolated that all you required was a little advice, support and insight from others prospective that’s quite sad on your part really am only asking for some support from reaching out! No we’re not at proceedings yet but I feel we maybe. I will do ANYTHING to keep this baby not to cheat the system but to ensure I can prove I can and will change how the further holds out for just me and my child who I love unconditionally already and that of my other child also . Please do stop with the negative comments honesty, advice and support is all I asked not to be labelled as a child abusing monster yes I made mistakes I admit that and at a very big coast I love my children and I hate myself for what happened I truly do and if I could go back and do things differently my god I would but I can’t change what has happened all I can do is try to change the future and very hope for the best! Am sorry if I’ve hurt anyone’s feelings here and I can’t change how you see me as such but some comments have been quite damaging to say the least. Please only comment if you genuinely have some advice or your own prospective to give.
thank you am already hurting as it is please do know I have remorse for my child I have always had and always will and that I am deeply sorry that I put them at risk in harms way I will NOT be repeating the same mistakes and poor judgments I once inflicted on my previous child and the root cause of it is I was much to blame by placing my child in such horrible encounters of poor judgment and poor parenting of that of my own.

You don't really understand what deprivation of liberty actually is do you? In your exes position I'd have done everything in my power to keep you away from that child. You stayed with a man who you knew brutally assaulted him, putting your own needs first. At no point during any of your comments have you shown insight into the impact of this on your child. It's all "poor me".

IdaPolly · 12/05/2024 11:41

I think people should be careful about helping the OP find ways to keep the baby. You might be condemning it to broken bones or worse. It might be better off with an adoptive family.

PineappleTime · 12/05/2024 11:42

Lots of excuses and justifications in that last post. Not a lot of insight. Being with an abuser for years doesn't make it not your fault that you chose to stay with the man who injured your baby and led to losing him from your life. There is always help available to leave; you didn't take it. Making excuses won't help you.

Nicole1111 · 12/05/2024 11:44

I haven’t got time to read all this but what did the finding of fact hearing conclude about who did it?

Jellycatspyjamas · 12/05/2024 11:45

I don’t have a criminal record I have an upstanding role in my job of 20 years in healthcare do you really think if I had done that to my child I would be allowed to work I such profession and placed on barring list?

You don’t have a criminal record because the court couldn’t determine who out of you and your partner injured your child. The Lancaster ruling basically says we know it was one of you but can’t prove beyond reasonable doubt who it was. You may not have caused the injury but you did cover for your partner and stayed with him. As a social worker that would be enough for me to lose my job and rightly so.

Supervised contact tells me social work had very real concerns about the safety of the baby in your care, and with good reason. You say contact was positive because you loved your baby, but that love wasn’t enough to keep him safe.

Social services have every right to move to a formal process to assess the risk to your unborn child. They won’t have told you that at the outset because they were assessing the situation - that assessment has thrown up concerns. Yes the dynamics in abusive relationships are complex, and sometimes the very real possibility of having a child removed is the thing that prompts change. That may not be enough at this late stage, it really depends on you having a stable living environment, being stable enough yourself to cope with the demands of a new baby and keeping him out of your life.

Shayisgreat · 12/05/2024 11:46

keffie12 · 11/05/2024 22:16

To be blunt (I'm experienced in this area of the law) if they already have a child protection order, the high chances are they will want your baby removed.

They won't tell you that, though, for many reasons and will deny it if you ask them. That's why they have the order so they can easily remove your baby.

My best advice to you is to find a local solicitor who deals with social service cases. You need a solicitor who is trained in this.

I am sorry I have had to be so blunt. However, I want you to understand the gravity of the situation.

I am well versed in how social services work. I know they make you jump through hoops, have expectations beyond belief, and move the goal posts regularly. This is why I have said this so you go and her legal advice as they will tie you up in knots at a very vulnerable time for you.

It is also important in this where your first baby is now. You don't say whether he/she is with you or/and still in your life

If you were as experienced as you say you are, you'd know that there is no such thing as a child protection order!

Unborn baby is likely on a child protection plan but it is not an order.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 12/05/2024 11:47

Shayisgreat · 12/05/2024 11:46

If you were as experienced as you say you are, you'd know that there is no such thing as a child protection order!

Unborn baby is likely on a child protection plan but it is not an order.

Show quote history

There is in Scotland.. that poster may be Scottish.

Jellycatspyjamas · 12/05/2024 11:50

*If you were as experienced as you say you are, you'd know that there is no such thing as a child protection order!

Unborn baby is likely on a child protection plan but it is not an order.*

If you read the full thread you’d know that Child Protection Orders are used in Scotland when a child needs to be removed immediately. Not everyone on mumsnet is from England and the other nations have different laws and CP processes.

ZombieBoob · 12/05/2024 11:51

How old were you and your partner when baby was taken?
You honestly need to leave and demonstrate how you will provide for child working and paying for childcare. You also need to show that while you will keep dad away from child, you have to do it legally. Your child has a right to their dad too. You have many many long years of court battles ahead of you and you'll need to fund that too. You need to build a support base too as you've said you've no support.

If you can show all that in a few weeks they might let you keep the baby. Honestly I don't think they will. I would focus on supporting the child through other means like visits ect

Dollenganger333 · 12/05/2024 11:54

Fairypick · 12/05/2024 10:59

Do you understand how manipulated narcissists work? Have you been in this situation? Both of my child’s father's are of that!some situations where people are being abused takes years to leave so would you judge them for staying with an abuser for that amount of time due to safety , it takes time and planning to leave safely, yes I thought I could live a family life but guess what I’ve realised that’s not the case yes I should of done it sooner and this am very much guilty for on my part I take full responsibility of this and I want different to what decisions I made previously I didn’t harm my child I failed to safeguard that’s my guilt I put my child at risk and that’s my downfall I feel so ashamed I did that I put my child at risk and that’s what happened to my child I don’t have a criminal record I have an upstanding role in my job of 20 years in healthcare do you really think if I had done that to my child I would be allowed to work I such profession and placed on barring list? I think not I clearly would have been charged yet CP did not I was never taken to court. Am very shocked to think you think am manipulating this situation to think this will help my case not at all or to think it was myself that harmed my baby of that and to say your happy my ex refused to let me see my other child even under a court order by a judge deprivation of liberty is a form of abuse and he has been allowed to get away with that for years even a judge ruled that if he had his own way then he would never let me have contact he’s even stated that if my other child died I would never be told my other child has flat head syndrome and a speech issues while in his care why because he never repositioned him nor did he engaged in his early years he snatched because he thought I cheated on him and because he had OR he was allowed to do this! This is very concerning of your opinion no parent should be deprived of no contact unless a danger my contacts were supervised and very postive of that from previous reports stated I clearly live my child and no harm was ever come to them while having contact that’s not because I was carefully watched but because I very much love my baby. They are my world and they are the reason I keep going every single day Am trying to do what’s best here and for months and months there was never a mention of SS seeking legal advice and a LGM do you realise the emotional damage caused to be told and continue to provide everything for my unborn baby told everything is fine to now be told that this is the plan by the LA??bi absolutely broke down packing out hospital bags can you imagine how that feels? I really am shocked how some of you can really say such things yes I fully understand to some extent I truly do, I understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I do appreciate honesty but to say I don’t deserve to see my other child nor to be given a fighting chance for my newborn is very unfair yes I must change from here on out yes I’ve had years to do this but I didn’t plan to have another baby intentionally but am willing to do what ever it takes to try my very best to improve my life and situation future makings and judgment to ensure I can parent safely and efficiently! I’ve know others who actually hurt their child and admitted it got to keep their child and a further one also, another their child was killed by an animal and went on to have another yes my case is different to theirs and am not nice picking yes it really is not good that I stated I can’t give an explanation but the truth is I put my child in harms way that’s what happened , I’ve engaged all the way through done everything asked and more and now I could still lose any chance at being a mother! I did not come in here to find ways to cheat the system or to cheat out the LA but to reach out for support and advice yet I feel as though am being placed back in a court room yet again. Do you not think that what happened I don’t live with it for the rest of my days and life, it eats me up every single day I grieve everyday what’s happened that I failed I didn’t protect and I made a very poor judgment and my child suffered it’s haunted me and will do forever not to mention the impact it will have on my child growing up am so sorry to my child that I made such a very poor judgment in not safeguarding how I should of and that’s my fault Yes it maybe too late and I properly should of done something much sooner but had I known they would go from a CPP to seeking legal advice then yes I would of acted much quicker in my pregnancy yet I was reassured from the beginning that they were not looking at removal but to engage positively and not been so stupid to think otherwise. Am very hurt to see others say be wary to give advice I hope that someday you don’t need advice and feel so isolated that all you required was a little advice, support and insight from others prospective that’s quite sad on your part really am only asking for some support from reaching out! No we’re not at proceedings yet but I feel we maybe. I will do ANYTHING to keep this baby not to cheat the system but to ensure I can prove I can and will change how the further holds out for just me and my child who I love unconditionally already and that of my other child also . Please do stop with the negative comments honesty, advice and support is all I asked not to be labelled as a child abusing monster yes I made mistakes I admit that and at a very big coast I love my children and I hate myself for what happened I truly do and if I could go back and do things differently my god I would but I can’t change what has happened all I can do is try to change the future and very hope for the best! Am sorry if I’ve hurt anyone’s feelings here and I can’t change how you see me as such but some comments have been quite damaging to say the least. Please only comment if you genuinely have some advice or your own prospective to give.
thank you am already hurting as it is please do know I have remorse for my child I have always had and always will and that I am deeply sorry that I put them at risk in harms way I will NOT be repeating the same mistakes and poor judgments I once inflicted on my previous child and the root cause of it is I was much to blame by placing my child in such horrible encounters of poor judgment and poor parenting of that of my own.

Why can't you type in paragraphs? This is very difficult to read and to understand.

In your first post, you talk as if you're on the outside of the situation.

Eviebeans · 12/05/2024 11:56

I cannot see a situation where the child would be left in your care.
I don’t believe in second chances where a child has been harmed.
you and your partner did not take responsibility for the injuries- this is one of the requirements for receiving therapy- so you will be in the position you were when the child was injured. Everyone knows that having and looking after a baby is very stressful for even the strongest couple.
your partner seems to be refusing to engage. Every action is a form of communication- what could he be communicating to you here?
If I were making the decision I would not risk it under any circumstances. It could mean the injury or death of a child.

MadeForThis · 12/05/2024 11:57

You haven't done everything possible to keep your new baby safe.

You haven't left him. You were planning to be a family together.

I don't apologise for saying that you are being manipulative because you are. You are just annoyed that someone is calling you out.

Everyone has the right to ask for advice. That's why mumsnet exists.

My advice - let them take the baby. It will be safe. You have made no attempt to protect the baby. You think your "right" to be a mother comes before everything else. It doesn't.

GrazingSheep · 12/05/2024 11:59

I’m amazed neither you nor your dp went to prison for the abuse inflicted on your older child.

Shayisgreat · 12/05/2024 11:59

Jellycatspyjamas · 12/05/2024 11:50

*If you were as experienced as you say you are, you'd know that there is no such thing as a child protection order!

Unborn baby is likely on a child protection plan but it is not an order.*

If you read the full thread you’d know that Child Protection Orders are used in Scotland when a child needs to be removed immediately. Not everyone on mumsnet is from England and the other nations have different laws and CP processes.

But this is an unborn baby so there wouldn't be a child protection order, and if the poster was experienced in law they would understand that. Leads to the conclusion that they aren't as experienced as they say they are.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 12/05/2024 12:01

You've mentioned parents have a right to contact. Actually they don't.

What parents have are responsibilities, hence the term "parental responsibility." You don't have a god given right to your child.

Your child, on the other hand, does have rights. They have the right to live without abuse or the risk of harm and if that means they are taken at birth from parents who have proven they can't keep a child safe then so be it.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 12/05/2024 12:03

Shayisgreat · 12/05/2024 11:59

But this is an unborn baby so there wouldn't be a child protection order, and if the poster was experienced in law they would understand that. Leads to the conclusion that they aren't as experienced as they say they are.

Show quote history

Scotland has a pre birth child protection plan. (Pre birth CPP).

igomeow · 12/05/2024 12:05

GrazingSheep · 12/05/2024 11:59

I’m amazed neither you nor your dp went to prison for the abuse inflicted on your older child.

It's disgusting Isn't it!
There was a case like this on 24 hours in police custody, shaken baby and the parents avoided prison by blaming the each other. I think the case years ago with baby P ended in small sentences for the same reason.

izzywizzy82 · 12/05/2024 12:07

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

LakeTiticaca · 12/05/2024 12:09

It's good that social services have eyes on you and your partner OP. Better this way than another murdered Child in the news .
You admit that you didn't safeguard your baby. So that means partner abused him and you knew about it but covered it up.
I would be surprised if you were allowed to keep the baby tbh

Dollenganger333 · 12/05/2024 12:09

Having tried hard to read through the narrative of what actually happened here, it seems that the OP isn't / wasn't concerned about her child who sustained the injuries in 2014. I would be horrified if I had a child with those levels of injury I could not explain. And now she's having another baby with the same man?