Child protection

[Fairypick]

Hi, this is my story and am looking for any advice or guidance in regards to my post. Please don’t judge.

Almost 10 years ago I had my second child and at around 8 months old they sustained unexplained none accidental injuries these were the injuries caused from the Drs review:
2014 baby was presented by his mother at his GP surgery with bruising and swelling to his feet, she was unable to offer any explanation to how an immobile child could have sustained these injuries, baby was then referred to Hospital and examined by a doctor. Baby was found to have linear bruising on the tops of the right foot as well as bruising on the tip of the right big toe and diffuse bruising on the soles of both feet. There was also a small 0.5 superficial scratch on top of baby’s chest and a small 5mm linear bruise on the posterior aspect of baby’s left ear. A skeletal survey also found baby to have 6 healing fractures to the ribs, which appeared to be old ones.
There were concerns that the injuries may have been caused by either mother or her partner (not the. Baby’s farther) and they were arrested and bailed with no further action due to no evidence an interim court order was granted. It is noted that in a court of law and family court the judge determined either mother or her partner had caused the injuries and a Lancashire finding was accepted as neither mother or partner were accepting responsibility for causing the injuries that baby had sustained although the blamed each other at the time of the incident.
As part of this section 47 enquiry SW spoken to both in question about the injuries and they both remain clear that they did not cause the injuries to baby nor can they explain what happened or how it happened. Mother also shared that if she had of caused the injuries she would not have taken her baby to get treatment as she knows this would have got her into trouble. Almost 11 years on me and my partner are now expecting our first baby together, there has been no DV in almost 7 years and we have remained very positive in our relationship since and very much looking forward to the arrival of our new born baby. We were made subjected to a child protection order in January due to a referral and we were very open and honest about this, we have worked very closely openly and honestly with the LA since the order was made and have never dismissed anything to them. We are due to have a review conference shortly before our baby is born and we currently scored a 3 and this still remains a score of 3 in the report from the SW before the next review meeting. However despite working extremely hard and jumping through many hoops we were informed that they will be seeking legal advice and can not define an answer as to what will happen next this was not mentioned in the very first meeting, we have completed all the assessments and tasks even agreed to any plan needed to ensure we get to be a family and keep our newborn baby, no pre birth plan has been completed yet either. The reason being that that they are seeking legal advice from what they have said is is that we are both saying now that we don’t think either of us caused the injuries, LA didn’t realise the seriousness of the past case either. We have consent to having a virtual baby for 48hrs and will do anything in our power to show and demonstrate we are no risk at all. We understand that they have a duty to ensure children are protected and especially newborn a babies we have never dismissed that, yes it’s difficult to tell what happened or why it happened as we do not know ourself, yes I admit I did at that time failed to safeguard my child who sadly sustained injuries. What am asking is really what do you think will happen, do we stand a chance of keeping our newborn baby and maintaining as a family unit or are we losing a fighting battle that we have worked so very hard for? I fully understand their worries and concerns but surely with a lot of positives and the length of time passed we could be given a chance at this? We are more then happy to be placed in a mother and baby unit, a foster placement or a supervision order, the last thing we want is to have our baby removed. Any advice or experience would be much appreciated and please don’t judge we are not horrible bad people just two people who would very much like the opportunity to show we can care, protect and love our child to the best of our ability with the support of the LA until they feel satisfied that the risks are no longer there. Yes they have expressed in their report that they think the new born baby will potentially be at significant risk of harm when born, but surely if we are not given a chance to prove this wrong they is that not fair at all? We have been told to keep providing for our baby and that they don’t know what the plan of the next steps will be although they have expressed that we have engaged positively since the very beginning and that no DV has been present for many years also.
Thank you for your understanding.

Not quite, a solicitor will make a case for her and a barrister will represent her in court and cross examine the local authority to test their evidence. That's due legal process and every parent has the right to that.

I specifically wrote for the ribs. Specifically. And very very clearly. And no she didn’t take them to ger medical help for the 6 broken ribs . The post is correct. It is you who misread.

I agree with this. The ribs were healing fractures so happened at another time, where it was clearly covered up!

No - I didn’t misread at all.

The rib fractures were discovered as part of a skeletal survey after OP took her baby to the Gp and hospital for the foot swelling and bruising. If - as she states she did not ever harm her child then clearly those fractures were done when she was not with the child. Rib fractures sometimes show no signs outwardly so unlike the foot issues OP would have potentially seen no sign of injury. Rib fractures are however extremely painful so it is likely the baby would have been highly distressed (but you could argue some babies cry a lot and maybe this was the case so OP didn’t notice anything different). Only OP knows the truth.

Possibly - but not necessarily so. I’ve seen on numerous occasions patients with rib fractures where there is no outward sign eg bruising , swelling, redness. There is severe pain though but very often no actual mark to be seen. It’s only an x Ray in a lot of cases I’ve personally dealt with that have differentiated between costochondritis , rib fracture and chest infection when someone has presented with pain

The bottom line is OP knows if it was her or not. If as she says she is innocent then only she knows who was left alone with her baby - the real issue here isn’t details over injuries it’s OP and whether she can even be honest with herself or see the risks to her children. I think a lot of us (myself included) are looking at this from a practical, factual and balanced way and can see the clear risks but sadly it appears OP can’t. So when we are disagreeing over various things I guess that’s not really the issue but it’s hard to even begin to see it from OPs perspective as that’s so alien to the majority of people who see the child’s safety first

@Scottishgirlinwales I agree with you.

And it's in no way sticking up for OP. She fucked up big time (having an unrelated male look after her precious newborn baby, then staying ten years, still not putting child forward and pursuing contact without the abusive man, then getting pregnant by him, she doesn't take accountability and is generally incompetent to care for a child...)

But from what she's posted, she did go to the GP and she may not have known about the rub fractures at the time (though as you say, child would have shown signs of heightened distress).

That's just my understanding.

I've never fractured a rib, but sometimes people don't even know they've fractured their own rib, they go to hospital complaining of chest pain.

Again, that's not to defend op. Anyone could have predicted this awful scenario, plus she wasn't particularly put off him when she did find out.

I think that’s the real issue - that the risk hasn’t been accepted and no changes made by OP to safeguard her child or any future children. It shows a lack of judgement and protective factors

And in my, non professional, opinion on the small chance a baby with 6 or 7 broken ribs had zero bruising they would be in so much pain every time they were held or picked up that any sane parent would have seen a doctor.

Yes I agree - it’s incredibly painful. But - for all we know OP could have had a baby that cried all the time (some do) and it’s probably more likely in the case of an abused child and of that was from birth OP could have just assumed her baby cried a lot and missed the signs. We will never know. We only have the facts that 1) a child was seriously injured through abuse and 2) OP cannot protect a child whether that’s intentional or unintentional it’s still a serious safeguarding concern

Even murderers have the right to legal representation.

Due process has to be followed, otherwise it leaves the door open to further challenge.

As for the OP, I don’t believe for one second that she is planning to leave her partner. You can’t possibly tell me that the OP started this thread telling us that she and her partner were both innocent victims, that they’ve been together for ten years since the abuse, and within 24 hours she’s resolved to leave the partner and do the best by her child. There’s not a chance she’s going to leave him. And given that it’s never been established who abused the baby, the authorities aren’t going to back off just because she’s said she’s going to leave him. Because the abuse happened on her watch as well. For all anyone knows she was the perpetrator,. It’s hopeful the baby will be removed at birth and placed for adoption.

And would the OP even really care? After all she hasn’t seen her other child for ten years and seems not to give a shit about that.

Do,you habe kids? A baby who cries a lot you can absolutely determine the,difference in the cry of pain, I can only imagine the screams associated with 6 broken ribs. No one, no one could think oh it’s just a baby crying.

Yes I have children. I agree with you and totally get your point. We would notice yes - I think OP has a problem with her perception of situations though which is why I was speculating if that could have been a possibility as to how she missed serious injuries in her baby.

I’m sorry but that’s absolving her of responsibility. She knew well enough when the babies feet were bashed in. She’d have known for 6 broken ribs, anyone would have known. Saying well maybe she didn’t spot it is a way of mitigating this. Speculating to innocence.

Not at all. Intentional or unintentional OP is still at fault and her children still need safeguarding. In child protection it just isn’t always clear cut that an abuser is aware and guilty it can be through unawareness or enabling but it is equally serious. There’s no excusing anything to say OP is innocent and the issue of OP being guilty or innocent isn’t the real issue here. The issue is are OP children at risk - clearly yes. It doesn’t matter why or by whom it matters that it’s been identified they are at risk and they need to be kept safe.

I think you’re very polite and appreciate your style of arguing. I still don’t agree though, as even if she is so clueless she didn’t know something with wrong with a baby with six broken ribs screaming in pain once they x rayed she did know. She knew full well. And she said it was him. Now she’s saying she doesn’t think he did it.

The lying has escalated.

The baby also had bruising to its ear. You can't miss all of these things, surely?

These threads are always so interesting, though I do wonder if people genuinely believe they can change the views or actions of such a poster.

There are key issues in her first post, a referral was received in January - from whom? Someone had concerns. SS are seeking legal advice because they are intending to go to court. That means they have exhausted all the usual attempts of help. OP has a ten+ year history of not being able to extricate herself from her co-dependent relationship. She's not going to do so now, and SS know that. She has form for it. 10 years of form, and 2 previous kids which she couldn't make the change for. What difference would this baby make? None. The couple are both, ten years on, still denying any knowledge of how the second child was harmed. There is literally no way to ensure this baby will be safe once it is born if left in their care, or the mother's sole care.

SS don't want to take kids away from their families, but sometimes there is no choice, and it seems this is one of those cases.

OP won't change - she had ten years to change and hasn't. Even her posts are indicative of her obsfucation, can you imagine that occurring in real time in front of social workers? Nothing anyone here says will change that, because nothing SS has said to her has achieved that aim either.

It’s terrible isn’t it , poor baby. I just hope that SS can keep this next one safe from birth

It's not a hill anyone's is going to die on, but it is possible she didn't know about the rib fractures. And she did get medical help in the end, so she did notice the bruising.

But it's kind of irrelevant, because she stayed with him anyway. Despite seeking medical attention, she failed the children in other ways.

I just dint see how it is possible, she might not have known what it was, but she’d have known. The child would have been in prolonged agony. I’ve broken two ribs and the pain is horrendous, they medicate rhe hell out of you. I can’t imagine what six would have felt like. As a parent I do not accept for one moment she would not have known something was very very wrong. The baby would have been in agony and for a prolonged period.

I think we judge it based on our own parenting and intuition but it seems that OP whether intentional or not doesn’t adhere to the same standards

I would think this poor baby must have been is worse pain being picked up and not be able to get comfort from being held. This is honestly sick.

Every time they moved, every time they cried, the pain would have been horrendous.

like an animal in pain, we know and recognise it. Immediately. And the op does recognise it, she did with the feet. She’s evidenced she can recognise it, And the ribs will have been worse than the feet. And that’s saying something and someone hit that little babies feet so hard they swelled up and couldn’t stand any pressure on them,