Child protection

[Fairypick]

Hi, this is my story and am looking for any advice or guidance in regards to my post. Please don’t judge.

Almost 10 years ago I had my second child and at around 8 months old they sustained unexplained none accidental injuries these were the injuries caused from the Drs review:
2014 baby was presented by his mother at his GP surgery with bruising and swelling to his feet, she was unable to offer any explanation to how an immobile child could have sustained these injuries, baby was then referred to Hospital and examined by a doctor. Baby was found to have linear bruising on the tops of the right foot as well as bruising on the tip of the right big toe and diffuse bruising on the soles of both feet. There was also a small 0.5 superficial scratch on top of baby’s chest and a small 5mm linear bruise on the posterior aspect of baby’s left ear. A skeletal survey also found baby to have 6 healing fractures to the ribs, which appeared to be old ones.
There were concerns that the injuries may have been caused by either mother or her partner (not the. Baby’s farther) and they were arrested and bailed with no further action due to no evidence an interim court order was granted. It is noted that in a court of law and family court the judge determined either mother or her partner had caused the injuries and a Lancashire finding was accepted as neither mother or partner were accepting responsibility for causing the injuries that baby had sustained although the blamed each other at the time of the incident.
As part of this section 47 enquiry SW spoken to both in question about the injuries and they both remain clear that they did not cause the injuries to baby nor can they explain what happened or how it happened. Mother also shared that if she had of caused the injuries she would not have taken her baby to get treatment as she knows this would have got her into trouble. Almost 11 years on me and my partner are now expecting our first baby together, there has been no DV in almost 7 years and we have remained very positive in our relationship since and very much looking forward to the arrival of our new born baby. We were made subjected to a child protection order in January due to a referral and we were very open and honest about this, we have worked very closely openly and honestly with the LA since the order was made and have never dismissed anything to them. We are due to have a review conference shortly before our baby is born and we currently scored a 3 and this still remains a score of 3 in the report from the SW before the next review meeting. However despite working extremely hard and jumping through many hoops we were informed that they will be seeking legal advice and can not define an answer as to what will happen next this was not mentioned in the very first meeting, we have completed all the assessments and tasks even agreed to any plan needed to ensure we get to be a family and keep our newborn baby, no pre birth plan has been completed yet either. The reason being that that they are seeking legal advice from what they have said is is that we are both saying now that we don’t think either of us caused the injuries, LA didn’t realise the seriousness of the past case either. We have consent to having a virtual baby for 48hrs and will do anything in our power to show and demonstrate we are no risk at all. We understand that they have a duty to ensure children are protected and especially newborn a babies we have never dismissed that, yes it’s difficult to tell what happened or why it happened as we do not know ourself, yes I admit I did at that time failed to safeguard my child who sadly sustained injuries. What am asking is really what do you think will happen, do we stand a chance of keeping our newborn baby and maintaining as a family unit or are we losing a fighting battle that we have worked so very hard for? I fully understand their worries and concerns but surely with a lot of positives and the length of time passed we could be given a chance at this? We are more then happy to be placed in a mother and baby unit, a foster placement or a supervision order, the last thing we want is to have our baby removed. Any advice or experience would be much appreciated and please don’t judge we are not horrible bad people just two people who would very much like the opportunity to show we can care, protect and love our child to the best of our ability with the support of the LA until they feel satisfied that the risks are no longer there. Yes they have expressed in their report that they think the new born baby will potentially be at significant risk of harm when born, but surely if we are not given a chance to prove this wrong they is that not fair at all? We have been told to keep providing for our baby and that they don’t know what the plan of the next steps will be although they have expressed that we have engaged positively since the very beginning and that no DV has been present for many years also.
Thank you for your understanding.

I don't believe for a second that you're really going to stay away from the piece of shit "partner" who nearly killed your previous baby, and SS won't either. You stayed with him for 11 years and conceived another baby when you know full well he abused your first one, you stayed through his abuse of you, you're still there now. You chose him over your previous baby and you'll choose him over this one.

OP I mean this kindly but if you know 100% that you didn’t hurt your baby, then only one other person could have and that’s your current partner.

If I knew the above then there’s no way in a million years could I stay with someone who hurt my baby and caused them to be removed from my care.

So for you to stay with him knowing he’d done this to your baby, and now have a baby with him, I honestly can’t comprehend it. Would you honestly trust him
alone with the baby?

If you honestly didn’t hurt your baby then if I were you, I’d be a million miles away from your partner, not still with him and having another baby.

Yes, yes, yes, I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

Do you really think SS will say, ‘oh you’ve split up with him, okay fine, you can keep your baby’ as if he won’t be round the next day. OP, you’ve massively failed your child. If it wasn’t you that hurt your child, then you know who it is and you’ve done nothing about it.

Not only that but you’ve stayed with that man and are now going to have a child with him. These are not the actions of a responsible mother and it’s in your best interests to have the child taken from you, you clearly have no desire to protect this baby from either you or your partner

But all this is assuming it's the partner who abused the first baby. If the OP hasn't left him in a decade maybe it's because she was the one who hurt the baby, or they hurt him together. Social services can't know this for sure considering she was happy to stick by her partner up until now.

Exactly, how could they stand to be around each other knowing what they did or protected the other from. Thank fuck the baby's dad keeps the child well away from op now.

It sounds like you started this thread to find out what you would need to say to social services to get to keep your baby. Rather than actually having the insight to protect your baby yourself. This is an attempt to manipulate social services rather than a genuine attempt to change. She has been pregnant for 8 months without leaving, probably believing they could talk their way into keeping the baby. It hopefully hasn't worked.

Be wary of giving advice. I don't feel the baby would be safe in OP's care.

Yes that's true. However the current partner is also abusive and refusing to engage with assessments. There is a possibility the OP hurt her baby. That can't be proved one way or another but they still have to assess both parents (or try to)

Supports them to do what? Get contact with a child they were involved with abusing? All this focus on the parents 'rights' do they also look at the child's rights to not be abused and the parents RESPONSIBILITY to put their child first, or does it focus on the parents being a victim to the mean state?

You say you are ready to leave this partner now but you don't seem to have absorbed the fact that this man did such harm to your first baby. You talk about his manipulation and so forth but you need to think about this little baby who had such terrible injuries and the man who did that to the por baby.
I know that must be a hard thing to think about, but you need to get onboard with what happened to your first child and understand the implications of that before you can move forward.

I suspect they'll remove the child op, sorry you won't want to hear that but I feel they'll have enough grounds to do so. They're clearly applying through court at the moment to do so. They have evidence one of you harmed the baby, they won't risk that again I don't think

Although her last post says both her and her partner are engaging with the social worker and midwife, contrary to what she said in her OP so honestly I think it's all just lies after lies really.

I don't think they are in court yet. OP mentioned legal gateway I think which is the first step to decide whether threshold is met for court or for pre-proceedings. If they go to legal gateway it's almost definite they will enter pre-proceedings and could definitely lead to care proceedings but it's not there yet.

I agree. "I know that very sadly I failed to safeguard my baby from the injuries that happened" - as though those injuries just sort of fell down from a clear blue sky. That's not genuine remorse or genuine insight. It's just parroting of the language you've heard SS use.

@Fairypick you need to not say these things, but do them. You need to realise that whatever happens to your child, your current partner is not a good person to have in your life. You need to leave for you.

Nobody can tell you if you'll be able to keep your baby. The fact that your ability to parent has been questioned in court will be a hurdle to overcome.

The fact that you've stayed with a man who, in your heart of hearts, you know harmed your baby, is quite astounding, and I don't think you realise how far from normal that decision is. Most women would run a mile.

I'm sorry everything is so hard for you. I think you need to make every effort to follow through on the decisions you've made, but not just with the goal of keeping your baby.

Very true to be honest

@keffie12 no, you're not experienced in this area of the law. There is no such thing as a child protection order , and no orders at all I'm fact can be made before a child is born. It's not true that social services will lie about intentions to seek removal. The law is very clear that there has to be honesty about this except in a very narrow set of circumstances.

I doubt you are involved in law at all but you shouldn't be dishing out made up advice anyway.

You should not be allowed anywhere near children. You either abused one yourself or your poor decision making allowed a tiny child to come to harm.

I don't believe that you had such a striking moment of clarity in the less than 4 hours between your first and second posts. Social services won't believe that and neither will a judge. For you to keep the baby you're expecting you would need to be able to show sustained evidence of change and with a few weeks to go before birth, you haven't.

"Almost 10 years ago I had my second child and at around 8 months old they sustained unexplained none accidental injuries". What is the situation with your first child?

if something was to go wrong it’s down to them

Just to be very clear, if social work assessed you to be able to keep your child and “something was to go wrong” it would be down to whoever harmed the child.

This to put it bluntly

I had a neighbour years ago whose brother was in a similar situation. He had a baby with a woman that he wasn't in a relationship with, the baby suffered severe injuries and sadly didn't survive. Neither mum or boyfriend were convicted (this baffles me but they blamed each other and it couldn't be proved)
Around 7 years later my neighbours brother got back with this woman and got her pregnant again, she was monitored in a mother and baby foster placement for the first three months of the babies life and this didn't go well. She wasn't waking up with baby at night/ sterilising bottles ect.
My neighbours brother wanted to take custody but social services and the courts decided it was in the babies best interest to be put up for adoption. It was said that the brother showed poor judgement in getting a woman pregnant knowing what had happened with the first child. He and his parents thought this was all very unfair.
I agree with social services and hope that child was adopted by loving parents.
This was all over 25 years ago so I can't say the same will happen with you but like my neighbours brother your actions up until now have been pretty shocking.
You say you never caused the injuries to your first child, so you agree your boyfriend did, there's no other explanation?
Most mothers would be murderous at the idea of someone causing rib fractures and bruising to a tiny immobile baby but you didn't! You stayed, you lost all hope of building forgiveness and understanding from the baby's bio dad (thank god for him in all of this!!) Your first baby will learn these facts one day, think on that, what are you going to say if he comes knocking wanting awnsers?
And then to top it all off you've shared a bed with this monster and put another life at risk. It only seems to have hit you now, weeks before giving birth that you should probably leave?!?
Terrible judgement and social services will see this.

If you were serious about the welfare of your unborn child, you would have made the decision to leave your abusive partner months ago, not weeks until your due date.

moreso, if you knew your partner was (is?) abusive - why on earth did you make the decision to bring another poor child into this? I’d imagine these will be questions / thoughts social care will be having. You’re making these decisions because you think it will help you keep the baby.

Actions speak louder than words, and to be honest it will take more than you just saying you’ll be ending the relationship. Your unborn child is at risk and that’s what needs to be the focus - you need to understand that.

@keffie12 I know they make you jump through hoops, have expectations beyond belief
Do you honestly think asking parents who previously violently abused a baby to evidence parenting ability is making them jump through hoops and expectation beyond belief?! What the actual!!

This is factually and objectively incorrect. There's no such thing as a 'child protection order' for starters.

To those saying @keffie12 is wrong, different parts of the UK have different laws and powers. In Scotland a Child Protection Order is used to immediately remove a child to a place of safety. While it wouldn’t be granted until the birth of the baby it can be part of a pre-birth assessment and plan to ensure the baby’s immediate removal following birth pending a children’s hearing.

Those 10 years since baby was removed could ace been spent on specialist therapy, parenting courses.

Unfortunately, you bet on the wrong horse by staying with this man. If you did the self improvement and reflection, and got with a non-abusive partner, you may have been allowed to keep baby.

I think you're going to struggle keeping away from this man if he had you under his spell for more than a decade, seriously harmed your baby, was violent to you(?) and you still didn't leave. Even with the best of intentions, I doubt it'll be possible, or that the SW team will give another chance at the expense of a newborns life.