Child protection

[Fairypick]

Hi, this is my story and am looking for any advice or guidance in regards to my post. Please don’t judge.

Almost 10 years ago I had my second child and at around 8 months old they sustained unexplained none accidental injuries these were the injuries caused from the Drs review:
2014 baby was presented by his mother at his GP surgery with bruising and swelling to his feet, she was unable to offer any explanation to how an immobile child could have sustained these injuries, baby was then referred to Hospital and examined by a doctor. Baby was found to have linear bruising on the tops of the right foot as well as bruising on the tip of the right big toe and diffuse bruising on the soles of both feet. There was also a small 0.5 superficial scratch on top of baby’s chest and a small 5mm linear bruise on the posterior aspect of baby’s left ear. A skeletal survey also found baby to have 6 healing fractures to the ribs, which appeared to be old ones.
There were concerns that the injuries may have been caused by either mother or her partner (not the. Baby’s farther) and they were arrested and bailed with no further action due to no evidence an interim court order was granted. It is noted that in a court of law and family court the judge determined either mother or her partner had caused the injuries and a Lancashire finding was accepted as neither mother or partner were accepting responsibility for causing the injuries that baby had sustained although the blamed each other at the time of the incident.
As part of this section 47 enquiry SW spoken to both in question about the injuries and they both remain clear that they did not cause the injuries to baby nor can they explain what happened or how it happened. Mother also shared that if she had of caused the injuries she would not have taken her baby to get treatment as she knows this would have got her into trouble. Almost 11 years on me and my partner are now expecting our first baby together, there has been no DV in almost 7 years and we have remained very positive in our relationship since and very much looking forward to the arrival of our new born baby. We were made subjected to a child protection order in January due to a referral and we were very open and honest about this, we have worked very closely openly and honestly with the LA since the order was made and have never dismissed anything to them. We are due to have a review conference shortly before our baby is born and we currently scored a 3 and this still remains a score of 3 in the report from the SW before the next review meeting. However despite working extremely hard and jumping through many hoops we were informed that they will be seeking legal advice and can not define an answer as to what will happen next this was not mentioned in the very first meeting, we have completed all the assessments and tasks even agreed to any plan needed to ensure we get to be a family and keep our newborn baby, no pre birth plan has been completed yet either. The reason being that that they are seeking legal advice from what they have said is is that we are both saying now that we don’t think either of us caused the injuries, LA didn’t realise the seriousness of the past case either. We have consent to having a virtual baby for 48hrs and will do anything in our power to show and demonstrate we are no risk at all. We understand that they have a duty to ensure children are protected and especially newborn a babies we have never dismissed that, yes it’s difficult to tell what happened or why it happened as we do not know ourself, yes I admit I did at that time failed to safeguard my child who sadly sustained injuries. What am asking is really what do you think will happen, do we stand a chance of keeping our newborn baby and maintaining as a family unit or are we losing a fighting battle that we have worked so very hard for? I fully understand their worries and concerns but surely with a lot of positives and the length of time passed we could be given a chance at this? We are more then happy to be placed in a mother and baby unit, a foster placement or a supervision order, the last thing we want is to have our baby removed. Any advice or experience would be much appreciated and please don’t judge we are not horrible bad people just two people who would very much like the opportunity to show we can care, protect and love our child to the best of our ability with the support of the LA until they feel satisfied that the risks are no longer there. Yes they have expressed in their report that they think the new born baby will potentially be at significant risk of harm when born, but surely if we are not given a chance to prove this wrong they is that not fair at all? We have been told to keep providing for our baby and that they don’t know what the plan of the next steps will be although they have expressed that we have engaged positively since the very beginning and that no DV has been present for many years also.
Thank you for your understanding.

OP CAN YOU PLEASE CLARIFY WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FIRST CHILD.

If a decision is made that the unborn child should be subject to a child protection plan, which seems to be the preferred term on here rather than order, then this must be set out in terms that will commence prior to the birth of the baby.

Children S.S. can sit and await the baby straightaway after checks are done.

Depends on what you call legal or not. I've seen and heard of this happening.

Where your stats for "generally do not succeed in parenthood"? There are millions of people with BPD and other mental health conditions managing to parent very successfully in the world. BPD can also be treated very effectively with DBT and many people with BPD manage very well.

Statements like yours just go to show how much work there is still to be done in reducing the stigma around mental health conditions.

I have bpd and I'm an excellent parent thankyou very much and I'm not manipulative. The stigma around bpd in services is awful and makes our life a lot harder. I don't think op should keep her baby but the reasons I think that has nothing to do with her diagnosis

@Differentstarts sorry to offend you, I said generally speaking so i was not lumping everyone in.

However based on professional experience in this case her diagnosis does have a bearing.

It's not that plan is the preferred term on here - a plan is completely different to an order. It's irresponsible to claim you have legal knowledge and then state things that are totally incorrect.

I am very aware that social services can remove babies at birth. But it's never done as a shock/surprise to the mother. That would be illegal.

As one said above, order is used in certain parts of this country, and that is what it knows it by.

I will beg to differ with you on babies being removed at birth and parent not knowing.

However, I am not going to get into an argument with you on it as it isn't the base of this thread.

I will finish on that. I will be very surprised if the baby is allowed to stay with her given what has been said and later on in the thread, too

Child protection Orders are used in Scotland yes. But not before babies are born, which is what you claimed. An order and a plan are not the same thing, and no, it's illegal to remove a baby at birth without giving the mother and father if known notice of proceedings. You're simply wrong.

I agree @PineappleTime 'orders' as opposed to 'plans' are a function of the courts/ legal system and as a foetus does not have legal 'personhood' until actually born cannot be named in any court order

Yes please do!!

This is the diagnostic criteria for BPD. If someone is accurately diagnosed, it is self evident that this would create obstacles to good parenting.

Diagnostic criteria of borderline personality disorder*
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by 5 (or more) of the following:

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behaviour covered in criterion 5.
2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
4. Impulsivity in at least 2 areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behaviour covered in criterion 5.
5. Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour.
6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
7. Chronic feelings of emptiness.
8. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

Sorry that some of you think my MH has much defined who I am! I would never discriminate someone’s MH at all it’s disgusting and damn right wrong to do so! That’s like saying a drug addict should never be allowed to parent nor of that of an alcoholic yet theses are a MH conditions also! Could it not be perhaps I’ve suffered childhood and adult hood traumas in the past and overcome these? Anyone who has suffered great loss and continues to try a live a good decent life to the best of their ability overcoming lots of traumas is very brave of that not many do unfortunately and sadly end their own lives and yes I did get therapy and they disagreed with my psychological diagnosis if anything told me that I had suffered great loss and had that of family and children they strongly suggested I had PTSD that in a psychological assessment was only an opinion who did one session lasting under an an hour! My therapy sessions went on for almost two years in some cases these types of professionals can lie especially in a court of law. I would like to say thank you to SOME and only SOME of the comments posted, to the rest you have caused great distress towards myself “By posting on Mumsnet you are agreeing to follow our Talk guidelines. Please be respectful” this had not been the case in some of these comments I’ve received!

Social care is likely to and should take your new baby.

Despite denying you caused the injuries to your older child, the ambiguity and unresolved nature of the incident will remain a critical concern for them.

They'll take your new claims to have separated from your partner with a pinch of salt. Leaving him may have significantly positively impacted your relationship with your older child, but you didn't do this. Why would they believe that this time will be any different?

Your ex is sensible to prevent contact while you remain in a relationship with your child's abuser. Nobody will blame him.

Going through with a pregnancy with a man who broke your baby's ribs demonstrates a breathtaking lack of insight and care. This recent decision, in itself, proves you're still not capable of safeguarding.

Prioritise your baby this time and ensure they go to a safe place. If you think it'll be different because this baby is his, you're wrong. He's dangerous.

@Fairypick you can report personal attacks using the Report button

I think @mnhq need to contact the OP off the boards. This thread isn’t helping anyone

Why do you think drug addicts and alcoholics should be parents? No they shouldn't because they put their addictions before their children's welfare just as you have put your relationship with an abuser ahead of your children's welfare.

This is about your unborn child. Your other two children. One of whom was severely brutalised and left in abject pain with 6 broken ribs, amongst other injuries,by either you, your partner, or both.

snd you know, you know who it was.

Bloody hell you couldn't make it up. Instead of addressing any of the valid questions, concerns or comments you've gone on yet another narcissistic diatribe and in this one you say that drug addicts and alcoholics should be allowed to be parents?! @mnhq take it down, there's no hope.

Op you're so horrified at people challenging your ability to parent and yet can't seem to understand that your baby could have died because of you and your partner, it's shocking and it's hard to understand why you both think you should be seen as suitable parents just because some years have passed. You are taking no accountability.

Wow op you need help and MNHQ needs to take this down.

Stop looking for pity and reassurance.
Stop making excuses.
People are not being nice to you because decent human beings are against child abuse!

Lots of people have mental health difficulties, myself included. The vast, vast majority of people with these issues don't go harming people and breaking babies ribs!!! That's on you, you chose to do that to a poor defenceless baby.

And since you won't explain what happened to your first child, I can imagine it's something that doesn't make you come out looking like the victim you are making yourself out to be.

I'm appalled the justice system failed here and you and your boyfriend never got held accountable.
Also disgusted that you work in healthcare with vulnerable children when you are complicit in child abuse!!

Really hope social services step up here and don't fail your baby like they have done to many others.
Your baby needs to removed and kept safe.

Ive just reported you post op you are not well or in the right mind for a child.

OP the only hope you have is to stop thinking poor you and start thing my poor children what have I done? But sadly for you that's not happening. Although it's probably the best blessing for your children.

Best for the kid to be in care.

You are absolutely right. When you think about the rib injury baby was a few months old. I remember accidently giving my baby a tiny cut cutting her nails at that age and feel horrible. The baby must have been is so much pain. And to keep having sex with the person who did it? It's unfathomable. Faster that baby is in care the better.