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Jewish Mumsnetters

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Antisemitism

1000 replies

bubbleandsqueak1976 · 25/03/2024 19:22

I read the posts on here with interest and often the subject of anti semitism comes up. I was brought up in a town in the South East. My mum gave me a book about Anne Frank when I was around 8 and I can remember asking ' what is a Jew?' as I had never met one. When I was about 14 a girl from northern Israel came to my school and I was asked to befriend her and help her settle in. I can remember being fascinated about her life in a Kibbutz and she used to show me
Hebrew writing. I don't recall ever hearing anything anti semitic about her or her brother as the only two Jewish kids - to my knowledge in the school. I also remember in my twenties encountering a group of lads from North London - white something and them having an absolute hatred for Jewish people. I can remember feeling utterly shocked as I'd never heard anti Jewish speak prior to this. Reading some of the recent posts on here it has made me wonder wherever there are pockets in the Uk with Jewish communities that experience antisemitism where the rest of the UK it does not occur as people simply have never met a Jewish person just their life- to their knowledge.Where I live I have only met 4 Jewish people in the Uk in my life and I am 47. The most Jewish people I have met were in Israel when I visited in 2000.

OP posts:
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LemonyTicket · 04/04/2024 21:56

@EllaDisenchanted Hes probably on the mumsnet middle eastern forum

0palfrootee · 04/04/2024 22:24

EllaDisenchanted · 04/04/2024 21:34

https://x.com/StandWithUs/status/1774841151876702659

Calls to strike tel aviv in NYC demonstration. I saw somewhere (looks like the same demonstration ) video footage calling for intifada.

I came to Israel a fair amount during the second Intifada, including spending a year here 😳

This kind of thing frightens me a lot more than some gobshites sounding off on MN.

Humdingerydoo · 04/04/2024 23:19

LemonyTicket · 04/04/2024 21:56

@EllaDisenchanted Hes probably on the mumsnet middle eastern forum

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

EllaDisenchanted · 04/04/2024 23:29

LemonyTicket · 04/04/2024 21:56

@EllaDisenchanted Hes probably on the mumsnet middle eastern forum

Tinfoil Hat GIF by The Tick

👀👀

LemonyTicket · 04/04/2024 23:54

Echobelly · 26/03/2024 22:57

It's a really difficult one to explain to people in many ways.

I completely oppose Israel's actions; horrific as 7 October was, I find the scale inexcusable, the creation of a famine is 100% a war crime with no justification, and the whole way it is conducting itself contrary to any possibility of actual return of the hostages.

But at the same time I also understand why many, let's face it, most, Jewish people want to stand by Israel. As a Jew opposed to Israel's actions in Gaza I don't want to set myself up as 'the right kind of Jew' and others as the 'wrong kind of Jew'. I want people to try to see that Jews who support Israel have many reasons for that, not all of which I agree with, but they are entitled to hold those views and be Zionists without being seen as evil and hateful.

Am I a Zionist? I guess by the standards of the Left, yes, though many Zionists would probably call me a self-hating Jew for wanting a ceasefire. But at the end of the day I think Israel should continue to exist a) as it's there, it's right to exist is a moot point and b) it would be an act of vandalism to take apart what is an amazing and dynamic country. I just wish there were a way for the Palestinian people to share in all it has to offer.

I was too tired to respond to this last night, but didn't want to let it go by.

You are entitled "as a Jew" to have whatever opinion you want to have. You don't need to feel like people will call you a self hating Jew because you want a ceasefire. Ultimately all decent people don't want anyone to be hurt, or scared, or in pain or to lose loved ones.

I think we have varying ways we see that as best being achieved and every decent person I know wants peace but might have different views on how that can be achieved. A lot of us have experienced a shift in our perspectives after 7/10 because we saw (sorry) the scale of sheer murderous hatred from Hamas on that awful day, and the glee with which so many Palestinians celebrated it.

I know for me, that was achingly painful, because I had spent so many years rooting for the Palestinians and speaking up for them. I am no fan of the Likud government and I was a partner for peace and equality. It was hard to see those people so gleefully wishing us dead and not caring for a moment about our humanity. It was also hard for me to interact with so many Palestinians in diaspora, people at universities in America or London or Canada, and hear them be openly antisemitic and to deny our history and rights.

Put simply, I had always deeply felt both Palestinian people and Israeli people had a right to live in the land they felt home and to do so in freedom, equality and joy. And I was heartbroken to find that very, very few of them seemed to feel the same way. It seems most of them thought we should "go back to Brooklyn" or were colonisers or evil or something painful. And that made me look at the situation in a different light because my confidence in peaceful co-existence was diminished. That said, I will always wish nothing but peace, safety and joy to Palestinians - whatever their feelings are in return.

I also felt the shock many of us felt from the very moment of the attack. From the first minute we witnessed people partying on 8th October outside the Israeli embassy, I think something changed in many of us as we saw this deep seated and out of control antisemitic hatred. And as the months have passed it has loomed larger and grown more confident in it's assertions. It's been a sad and difficult time for us, and I noticed the Jewish community around the world pulled in close.

In that time I have come across Jews I have really not liked. Perhaps even ones I borderline hated. The worst ones IMHO being the ones chucking their kind under a bus and joining in with the antisemites for likes, clicks or other accolades, or, worse, the ones acting like Hamas acted in gloating over deaths of Palestinians and thirsting for blood in revenge. For me, those people disgust me.

But we're all just humans. Jewish humans. But humans. Some of us are complete arseholes, and some of us are very nice. And where that distinction lies differs for us all because my idea of a complete arsehole might not be yours.

Just like my idea of what will bring peace, justice, safety and joy might not be yours, but the intention most of us have is the same. To see an end to this conflict and to find justice for them and for us.

I think if the whole world was not attacking Jews and behaving like such psychotic Nazis towards us, that we would have more space for empathy for others or to criticise Israel more freely. I can only speak for myself in saying I have less room than I would like for that because frankly, if people are making internet posts full of antisemitism and bizarre and unhinged hatred of the Jewish state then there's no way to sensibly join that conversation because their intent isn't genuine.

The middle eastern forum here is a cross-section of real life. A lot of angry people using this tragic war as an excuse to let rip on their hostility to Israel and it seems to be it has little to do with "freeing Palestine" and a lot more to do with acting like big fat 2024 Nazis with impunity.

I think the war has been over the top. I am angry and sad that Israel hasn't done better than they have. But I also think that they are fighting an enemy with no qualms about manipulating every means at their disposal, including deliberately starving their own people or killing their own children. And I think this enemy will not stop until they are stopped.

I genuinely pray that Palestinian people see the light somehow and understand the vast majority of Israeli people just want to be there peaceful neighbours and that this war that has gone on for 80 years, entirely founded on racial hate, MUST END. And that their lives must move forwards in peace, for the sake of their children who deserve better than this.

I worry that getting there will be too hard.

I respect completely people like you who want to see an end to violence. I also respect completely people who don't want violence, but also think Hamas must be stopped. I do not think there is any right answer. I am sad Hamas did this, I am sad they did not choose differently. I am sad for all the death and destruction. I am sad that we are all here experiencing crap in our daily lives that we thought was long dead and buried after the Holocaust.

I am sorry for droning on. My point is that you don't need to feel like Jews will attack you. There is enough bad energy and hate around us, we must never turn on each other. Sending love and hugs to all.

Kasperber · 05/04/2024 01:13

LemonyTicket. What a great post. You’ve communicated so well how I feel and how many of my family and friends feel.

Humdingerydoo · 05/04/2024 06:54

Dreading what's to come now after the whole Great Ormond Street Hospital thing yesterday. Imagine not wanting antisemitism training from a provider because you don't agree with their stance on Israel (fair), yet happily and knowingly marching alongside antisemites because you do agree with their stance on Israel 😳 Apparently anti-Israel trumps antisemitism.

EllaDisenchanted · 05/04/2024 07:12

Humdingerydoo · 05/04/2024 06:54

Dreading what's to come now after the whole Great Ormond Street Hospital thing yesterday. Imagine not wanting antisemitism training from a provider because you don't agree with their stance on Israel (fair), yet happily and knowingly marching alongside antisemites because you do agree with their stance on Israel 😳 Apparently anti-Israel trumps antisemitism.

what happened??

Humdingerydoo · 05/04/2024 07:35

EllaDisenchanted · 05/04/2024 07:12

what happened??

Campaign Against Antisemitism were arranging with GOSH to do antisemitism training for those who work at the hospital. The hospital's Muslim Network has said no to CAA providing it and no alternative has been arranged despite CAA being assured there would be. Obviously there have since been a fair few horrendously antisemitic comments on social media to do with it, which is always fun 🙄

https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1775900146607522132

https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1775900146607522132

Echobelly · 05/04/2024 08:53

Thanks for your reply @LemonyTicket I hope it will help people understand better where a lot of Jews are at.

Hélène79 · 05/04/2024 09:08

In that time I have come across Jews I have really not liked. Perhaps even ones I borderline hated. The worst ones IMHO being the ones chucking their kind under a bus and joining in with the antisemites for likes, clicks or other accolades

I agree with this but I'm afraid I extend that to Jews who are marching on Saturdays alongside frothing antisemites (the 'I haven't seen or heard any antisemitism' crowd). I know the antisemites are in the minority, but they're there and it's not just a tiny minority. I've had to see and hear them on the Tube every weekend for 6 months now and I dread to think how they'd respond to me being there if I was visibly Jewish.

I'm saying this as someone that is VERY pro-ceasefire, but feel strongly that the so-called Jewish bloc on these protests should be ashamed for allowing themselves to be used as token Jews to enable some of the worst behaviours on these protests.

LemonyTicket · 05/04/2024 11:18

Hélène79 · 05/04/2024 09:08

In that time I have come across Jews I have really not liked. Perhaps even ones I borderline hated. The worst ones IMHO being the ones chucking their kind under a bus and joining in with the antisemites for likes, clicks or other accolades

I agree with this but I'm afraid I extend that to Jews who are marching on Saturdays alongside frothing antisemites (the 'I haven't seen or heard any antisemitism' crowd). I know the antisemites are in the minority, but they're there and it's not just a tiny minority. I've had to see and hear them on the Tube every weekend for 6 months now and I dread to think how they'd respond to me being there if I was visibly Jewish.

I'm saying this as someone that is VERY pro-ceasefire, but feel strongly that the so-called Jewish bloc on these protests should be ashamed for allowing themselves to be used as token Jews to enable some of the worst behaviours on these protests.

Edited

So do I. And I hope any Jews feeling they are doing the right thing can look around and see that they're enabling those with Swastikas who are terrifying their people, and not enabling peace.

But I would hope they would still be able to have a conversation with me, even if I think they are wrong and deeply misguided.

pepperaunt · 05/04/2024 14:13

Thank you @LemonyTicket for so eloquently expressing what I, and I’m sure many others, are feeling right now. I’m sick of people trying to get me to be “their”’kind of Jew rather than my own.

stomachamelon · 07/04/2024 20:32

@Hélène79 I 100% feel the way you do.

CloudyAgain · 22/04/2024 17:44

Hélène79 · 03/04/2024 22:21

@0palfrootee What concerns me more than the 3 strikers, is the handful of posters that have been on these boards for the last six months, who by their own admission have no real skin in the game yet are permanently waiting in the wings for a Jew to turn up then they swoop in for some baiting. They know how to play the game without using explicit antisemitic rhetoric. The Jew hatred is so blatant though it would be funny if it wasn't so distressing. And yet Mumsnet does nothing.

Agree.

Hélène79 · 22/04/2024 19:47

The blatant antisemitism on those threads over the last 24 hours has honestly reached new heights. Absolutely foul.

0palfrootee · 22/04/2024 21:54

I know. I looked earlier at threads I'm watching and there are 30 something more posts since I last looked but I'm not going back to it now, honestly what's the point.

I find it so baffling and upsetting that these are people who would probably describe themselves as left wing progressives, and yet there is such a blind spot that I just can't attribute to anything other than AS. In some.cases it's wilful ignorance, in others it seems to be an inability to see things as more complex or nuanced than simply goodies v baddies. And in amongst all that hate, somehow the most insulting thing you can do is accuse someone of AS, so I'm fully expecting to be deleted here.

25milesfromhome · 22/04/2024 23:26

Hélène79 · 22/04/2024 19:47

The blatant antisemitism on those threads over the last 24 hours has honestly reached new heights. Absolutely foul.

That vicious AMA pile on last night was a new nadir. It was antisemitism ping pong and the thread’s back up now so I expect they’ll be tag teaming for round two soon enough.

Hélène79 · 22/04/2024 23:32

@25milesfromhome I felt quite upset reading some of the comments directed to the OP. I didn't realise it was back up

beethecrackon24995 · 23/04/2024 09:56

I don't go on the ME section. Full of jew haters patting each other on the back. Jumping on the israel gaza wagon pretending it's got nothing to do with jew hating. Most I'm sure have never been to Israel and have a learnt knowledge from like minded equally jew hating people/literature. Lots of these people have a natural learnt jew hatred. I wasn't brought up to hate anyone and over the years have had both friends and boyfriends from many backgrounds I'm happy to say. These people are foul. Let them get on with it. You can't argue with c@#t's 😊

EllaDisenchanted · 23/04/2024 21:50

Anyone following what has been going on in Columbia university and professor Shai Davidi?

stomachamelon · 23/04/2024 21:54

That thread is shocking. And the responses 

Am following with horror @EllaDisenchanted and see Kraft has withdrawn his funding/ donations today. Good.

Hélène79 · 23/04/2024 21:56

Not about him specifically. But I posted a video earlier on one of the 'there's no antisemitism' threads of the Columbia students. It actually made me feel physically sick. Genuinely thought it was some kind of performative art at first, but I was wrong.

EllaDisenchanted · 23/04/2024 22:11

What scares me is how blatant and open it is, and yet the denial continues. They literally call for 10000 October 7ths, and the Jewish professor is blocked from entering campus?

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