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Antisemitism

1000 replies

bubbleandsqueak1976 · 25/03/2024 19:22

I read the posts on here with interest and often the subject of anti semitism comes up. I was brought up in a town in the South East. My mum gave me a book about Anne Frank when I was around 8 and I can remember asking ' what is a Jew?' as I had never met one. When I was about 14 a girl from northern Israel came to my school and I was asked to befriend her and help her settle in. I can remember being fascinated about her life in a Kibbutz and she used to show me
Hebrew writing. I don't recall ever hearing anything anti semitic about her or her brother as the only two Jewish kids - to my knowledge in the school. I also remember in my twenties encountering a group of lads from North London - white something and them having an absolute hatred for Jewish people. I can remember feeling utterly shocked as I'd never heard anti Jewish speak prior to this. Reading some of the recent posts on here it has made me wonder wherever there are pockets in the Uk with Jewish communities that experience antisemitism where the rest of the UK it does not occur as people simply have never met a Jewish person just their life- to their knowledge.Where I live I have only met 4 Jewish people in the Uk in my life and I am 47. The most Jewish people I have met were in Israel when I visited in 2000.

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Hélène79 · 01/05/2024 17:36

Does anyone know where this is? I don't care if she's not representative of the majority of protestors, am totally done with defence of the protests now.

https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1785391716989604095

https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1785391716989604095

PurpleChrayn · 01/05/2024 17:54

The Jews as white colonisers trope is crazy to me. DH is Balkan Sephardi and gets mistaken for Pakistani or even mixed race black. A lot of our friends are Yemenite and Moroccan Jews.

Hélène79 · 01/05/2024 18:15

PurpleChrayn · 01/05/2024 17:54

The Jews as white colonisers trope is crazy to me. DH is Balkan Sephardi and gets mistaken for Pakistani or even mixed race black. A lot of our friends are Yemenite and Moroccan Jews.

Yes, you should see the Sephardic side of my mother's family 😅

It is crazy to you because it is crazy. It doesn't matter how many times you explain it, because many of them are well aware (with the exception of the ignorant and stupid) but it's an inconvenient reality to them. They totally depend on this trope in order to support their antisemitism - especially academics in the US who have been injecting very unsafe doses of critical race theory.

0palfrootee · 01/05/2024 18:48

Interestingly (wrong word, probably) my DB received some low level verbal bullying at school in which the very racist P word was shouted at him. I've heard David Baddiel say a similar thing.

These most recent events, the campus protests etc have a new element which I'd never seen before, namely people shouting "go back to Poland" at Jews (Israelis or otherwise). So much to unpack there but all I can summon is a wtf.

EllaDisenchanted · 01/05/2024 19:14

@0palfrootee approximately 90% of polish jews were killed in the Holocaust... "Jews lived in Poland for 800 years before the Nazi occupation. On the eve of the occupation 3.3 million Jews lived in Poland – more than any other country in Europe. Their percentage among the general population – about 10% – was also the highest in Europe... At the end of the war, approximately 380,000 Polish Jews remained alive, the rest having been murdered, mostly in the ghettos and the six death camps" (Yad Vashem). Poland was one of, if not the worst places for Jews in the Holocaust.

And Jewish Holocaust survivors who went back to Poland faced another murderous pogrom, after the war was over, in 1946. As usual, sparked by blood libel.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-kielce-pogrom-a-blood-libel-massacre-of-holocaust-survivors

Plus the years and years of multiple pogroms for centuries before that. Tach v'Tat was in Poland I believe. Poland has an exceptionally bloody history for the Jews.

I doubt any of the people shouting go back to Poland know any of this, but is ignorance really an excuse?

The Kielce Pogrom: A Blood Libel Massacre of Holocaust Survivors

The Kielce pogrom was a violent massacre in the town of Kielce, Poland in 1946. Learn more about the events that led up to the attack and the aftermath.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-kielce-pogrom-a-blood-libel-massacre-of-holocaust-survivors

0palfrootee · 01/05/2024 20:00

@EllaDisenchanted you're right, that adds a whole new sinister aspect to it. I suppose I understood it more to mean "you're not from here, get back to Poland" with the insinuation that Jews in Israel/ the US/ wherever have no right to be there as they are all European settlers (a bit rich coming from many Americans, I might add).

EllaDisenchanted · 01/05/2024 20:10

0palfrootee · 01/05/2024 20:00

@EllaDisenchanted you're right, that adds a whole new sinister aspect to it. I suppose I understood it more to mean "you're not from here, get back to Poland" with the insinuation that Jews in Israel/ the US/ wherever have no right to be there as they are all European settlers (a bit rich coming from many Americans, I might add).

Oh no I am quite sure they meant what you thought. Poland just happens to be one of the worst places they could have picked.

EllaDisenchanted · 01/05/2024 23:00

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6cKq0lNawu/?igsh=czhmcjF1Znh2aDRt

👀👀 moshiatch 🙈😅

PurpleChrayn · 07/05/2024 18:55

A "pro-Palestine" encampment has set up in the main square of the university I study at, seemingly sanctioned by several departments/faculties. Their list of demands is absolutely laughable.

I'm currently debating whether to attend my graduation in July.

NecessaryNC24 · 08/05/2024 07:21

Just popping back in here to say I reported a post on the current Rafah thread that talked of Israel being 'blood-thirsty', I pointed out to MN when I reported it that it was an obvious dog whistle for ancient antisemitism & they did ban the post

But it's depressing to me that had I not pointed it out it might have stood

Just to be clear I'm not Israeli or Jewish and I posted back on this board when it began under another name, maybe BeggyMitchell ?

Anyway just a 👋🏻, and to let you know I as a gentile & many of us still read and support x

MooseBreath · 08/05/2024 13:07

The "go back to Poland" line has been used time and time again. It has been said to me recently. The thing is, I couldn't "go back" to Poland because nobody in my ancestry ever lived there (with the exception of their time in Auschwitz, I suppose). My family dates back to Russia before the USSR disbanded, so doesn't actually have a country to return to...

I may not be Israeli myself, but if I ever felt persecuted for my ethnicity in my current country, the fact that Israel exists as a "safe haven" is extremely important. Frankly, I don't care where Israel is situated as long as a safe place for Jewish people exists.

Edited to say that Israel is currently in the holy land and should remain there. Those who live legally in Israel deserve to call that land their home and have every right to fight for it to remain as such.

Echobelly · 08/05/2024 17:34

I do see many problems with how Israel was established and the treatment of the Palestinian people then and absolutely now, the invasion of Rafah is simply horrific.

But the answer to the problem is not 'Disestablish Israel' and create a 'Nakba' for the Jews instead. There's no safe, sane way of doing that. I suspect there are some antisemites who will be like 'Ha, they can get a taste of their own medicine' but.... yeah, we had a taste of that medicine for 2000 years thanks very much.

EllaDisenchanted · 08/05/2024 20:21

Columbia Jewish students wrote a letter about their experiences. Very powerful

https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vRQgyDhIjZupO2H-2rIDXLy_zkf76RoM-_ZIYsOfn9FkI7TETgRtOfXK9VobMvGh6iEZfDPgALXJTCR/pub
In Our Name: A Message from Jewish Students at Columbia University
To the Columbia Community:

Over the past six months, many have spoken in our name. Some are well-meaning alumni or non-affiliates who show up to wave the Israeli flag outside Columbia’s gates. Some are politicians looking to use our experiences to foment America’s culture war. Most notably, some are our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves by claiming to represent “real Jewish values,” and attempt to delegitimize our lived experiences of antisemitism. We are here, writing to you as Jewish students at Columbia University, who are connected to our community and deeply engaged with our culture and history. We would like to speak in our name.

Many of us sit next to you in class. We are your lab partners, your study buddies, your peers, and your friends. We partake in the same student government, clubs, Greek life, volunteer organizations, and sports teams as you.

Most of us did not choose to be political activists. We do not bang on drums and chant catchy slogans. We are average students, just trying to make it through finals much like the rest of you. Those who demonize us under the cloak of anti-Zionism forced us into our activism and forced us to publicly defend our Jewish identities.

We proudly believe in the Jewish People’s right to self-determination in our historic homeland as a fundamental tenet of our Jewish identity. Contrary to what many have tried to sell you – no, Judaism cannot be separated from Israel. Zionism is, simply put, the manifestation of that belief.

Our religious texts are replete with references to Israel, Zion, and Jerusalem. The land of Israel is filled with archaeological remnants of a Jewish presence spanning centuries. Yet, despite generations of living in exile and diaspora across the globe, the Jewish People never ceased dreaming of returning to our homeland — Judea, the very place from which we derive our name, “Jews.” Indeed just a couple of days ago, we all closed our Passover seders with the proclamation, “Next Year in Jerusalem!”

Many of us are not religiously observant, yet Zionism remains a pillar of our Jewish identities. We have been kicked out of Russia, Libya, Ethiopia, Yemen, Afghanistan, Poland, Egypt, Algeria, Germany, Iran, and the list goes on. We connect to Israel not only as our ancestral homeland but as the only place in the modern world where Jews can safely take ownership of their own destiny. Our experiences at Columbia in the last six months are a poignant reminder of just that.

We were raised on stories from our grandparents of concentration camps, gas chambers, and ethnic cleansing. The essence of Hitler’s antisemitism was the very fact that we were “not European” enough, that as Jews we were threats to the “superior” Aryan race. This ideology ultimately left six million of our own in ashes.

The evil irony of today’s antisemitism is a twisted reversal of our Holocaust legacy; protestors on campus have dehumanized us, imposing upon us the characterization of the “white colonizer.” We have been told that we are “the oppressors of all brown people” and that “the Holocaust wasn’t special.” Students at Columbia have chanted “we don’t want no Zionists here,” alongside “death to the Zionist State” and to “go back to Poland,” where our relatives lie in mass graves.

This sick distortion illuminates the nature of antisemitism: In every generation, the Jewish People are blamed and scapegoated as responsible for the societal evil of the time. In Iran and in the Arab world, we were ethnically cleansed for our presumed ties to the “Zionist entity.” In Russia, we endured state-sponsored violence and were ultimately massacred for being capitalists. In Europe, we were the victims of genocide because we were communists and not European enough. And today, we face the accusation of being too European, painted as society’s worst evils – colonizers and oppressors. We are targeted for our belief that Israel, our ancestral and religious homeland, has a right to exist. We are targeted by those who misuse the word Zionist as a sanitized slur for Jew, synonymous with racist, oppressive, or genocidal. We know all too well that antisemitism is shapeshifting.

We are proud of Israel. The only democracy in the Middle East, Israel is home to millions of Mizrachi Jews (Jews of Middle Eastern descent), Ashkenazi Jews (Jews of Central and Eastern European descent), and Ethiopian Jews, as well as millions of Arab Israelis, over one million Muslims, and hundreds of thousands of Christians and Druze. Israel is nothing short of a miracle for the Jewish People and for the Middle East more broadly.

Our love for Israel does not necessitate blind political conformity. It’s quite the opposite. For many of us, it is our deep love for and commitment to Israel that pushes us to object when its government acts in ways we find problematic. Israeli political disagreement is an inherently Zionist activity; look no further than the protests against Netanyahu’s judicial reforms – from New York to Tel Aviv – to understand what it means to fight for the Israel we imagine. All it takes are a couple of coffee chats with us to realize that our visions for Israel differ dramatically from one another. Yet we all come from a place of love and an aspiration for a better future for Israelis and Palestinians alike.

If the last six months on campus have taught us anything, it is that a large and vocal population of the Columbia community does not understand the meaning of Zionism, and subsequently does not understand the essence of the Jewish People. Yet despite the fact that we have been calling out the antisemitism we’ve been experiencing for months, our concerns have been brushed off and invalidated. So here we are to remind you:

We sounded the alarm on October 12 when many protested against Israel while our friends’ and families’ dead bodies were still warm.

We recoiled when people screamed “resist by any means necessary,” telling us we are “all inbred” and that we “have no culture.”

We shuddered when an “activist” held up a sign telling Jewish students they were Hamas’s next targets, and we shook our heads in disbelief when Sidechat users told us we were lying.

We ultimately were not surprised when a leader of the CUAD encampment said publicly and proudly that “Zionists don’t deserve to live” and that we’re lucky they are “not just going out and murdering Zionists.”

We felt helpless when we watched students and faculty physically block Jewish students from entering parts of the campus we share, or even when they turned their faces away in silence. This silence is familiar. We will never forget.

One thing is for sure. We will not stop standing up for ourselves. We are proud to be Jews, and we are proud to be Zionists.  

We came to Columbia because we wanted to expand our minds and engage in complex conversations. While campus may be riddled with hateful rhetoric and simplistic binaries now, it is never too late to start repairing the fractures and begin developing meaningful relationships across political and religious divides. Our tradition tells us, “Love peace and pursue peace.” We hope you will join us in earnestly pursuing peace, truth, and empathy. Together we can repair our campus.

Signed:

In Our Name: A Message from Jewish Students at Columbia University

https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vRQgyDhIjZupO2H-2rIDXLy_zkf76RoM-_ZIYsOfn9FkI7TETgRtOfXK9VobMvGh6iEZfDPgALXJTCR/pub

MovingBird123 · 08/05/2024 20:35

Beautiful letter, thank you for sharing here.

EllaDisenchanted · 08/05/2024 21:03

meanwhile in the UK "Delegates at a National Union of Students (NUS) conference voted in a breakout meeting to stop recognising their Jewish members’ main representative body because of its support for Israel, the JC can reveal.
The non-binding vote against the continued affiliation of the Union of Jewish Students (UJS) was carried overwhelmingly at the NUS conference in Blackpool last month during a session that began with calls to “dismantle” the Jewish state as a “racist project of colonialism”."

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/revealed-nus-majority-calls-for-expulsion-of-main-jewish-group-bnqx2n73

Revealed: NUS delegates call for expulsion of main Jewish group

In a non-binding break-out vote, NUS delegates urged a ban on UJS over its support for Israel

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/revealed-nus-majority-calls-for-expulsion-of-main-jewish-group-bnqx2n73

EllaDisenchanted · 09/05/2024 06:18

Literally reading from a speech and calling themselves anti Jewish students

https://x.com/standwithus/status/1788202255339921907?s=46

https://x.com/standwithus/status/1788202255339921907?s=46

PurpleChrayn · 09/05/2024 08:03

Echobelly · 08/05/2024 17:34

I do see many problems with how Israel was established and the treatment of the Palestinian people then and absolutely now, the invasion of Rafah is simply horrific.

But the answer to the problem is not 'Disestablish Israel' and create a 'Nakba' for the Jews instead. There's no safe, sane way of doing that. I suspect there are some antisemites who will be like 'Ha, they can get a taste of their own medicine' but.... yeah, we had a taste of that medicine for 2000 years thanks very much.

What problems do you see with how Israel was established?

Hélène79 · 09/05/2024 08:41

@EllaDisenchanted Bloody hell, talk about saying the quiet part out loud! The thing is, even if you post that in the other board you'll still have racist twats responding with 'anti-Zionism is not antisemitism actually...can't say anything these days without being called an antisemite".

@PurpleChrayn You know the problems fine well.

EllaDisenchanted · 09/05/2024 09:04

Hélène79 · 09/05/2024 08:41

@EllaDisenchanted Bloody hell, talk about saying the quiet part out loud! The thing is, even if you post that in the other board you'll still have racist twats responding with 'anti-Zionism is not antisemitism actually...can't say anything these days without being called an antisemite".

@PurpleChrayn You know the problems fine well.

I’ve seen so much more. Just the fact that a huge intifada sign was hung on Columbia university building is gobsmacking to me . How much more blatant do you have to be?! How is that defensible?! How can you call a group of protestors peaceful when they hang a bloody huge sign for intifada????

https://www.timesofisrael.com/intifada-anti-israel-protesters-break-into-columbia-campus-building-and-seize-it/amp/

I find the absolute worst to be the red hands though. I still can’t get past celebrities who wore red hand pins. Anyone who paints their hands red is literally directly referencing the depraved Ramallah lynching . Don’t fucking lie and say that it’s an anti way pro peace gesture. I'm not buying it. https://www.foxnews.com/world/pro-palestinian-protesters-painted-red-hands-symbol-rooted-craze-see-blood-expert.amp

I'm not posting this on the students thread. I’m done. I’m recording it here because I know I’m not going crazy.

Anti-Israel protesters' painted red hands a 'symbol' rooted in 'craze to see blood': expert | Fox News

The symbol of anti-Israel demonstrators with painted red hands is a symbol of "brutality and human depravity," and represents Israel's "existential threat."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/pro-palestinian-protesters-painted-red-hands-symbol-rooted-craze-see-blood-expert.amp

Hélène79 · 09/05/2024 09:12

@EllaDisenchanted Have you seen the NUS one too? It's fucking disgusting https://twitter.com/SamanthaTaghoy/status/1788271690646167676

https://twitter.com/SamanthaTaghoy/status/1788271690646167676

EllaDisenchanted · 09/05/2024 09:15

Hélène79 · 09/05/2024 09:12

@EllaDisenchanted Have you seen the NUS one too? It's fucking disgusting https://twitter.com/SamanthaTaghoy/status/1788271690646167676

Yes - look at the chronicle link, the way they started the meeting is even worse

the irony is my friends are now saying they are seriously considering Aliya. She said what’s the point of worrying about getting a good education for her kids in the UK, when she doesn’t think they could go to Uni.

Echobelly · 09/05/2024 09:16

PurpleChrayn · 09/05/2024 08:03

What problems do you see with how Israel was established?

It is a problem that people had to be displaced. It is a problem that the land was never rightfully Britain's to give away. But of course, the Jews should not have been expected and could not have been expected to go 'No, we'll pass on that' and as I think I've mentioned, we are a people as well as a religion and that is where we originate from. So I'm not comfortable with people seeming to blame the Israelis for being there and trying to give themselves a free pass to call for the end of Israel by going 'Oh, Israelis are just white European colonisers'. It's not as simple as that, but nor is it as simple as 'Tough luck for the Palestinians, they just have to shove off from the place they lived for generations'.

As my husband has said, and he's not a fan of Israel, without a homeland Jews were decried as parasites on other countries, but with one - in the place we originated - some people are now trying to decry Israeli Jews as colonisers.

Hélène79 · 09/05/2024 09:39

EllaDisenchanted · 09/05/2024 09:15

Yes - look at the chronicle link, the way they started the meeting is even worse

the irony is my friends are now saying they are seriously considering Aliya. She said what’s the point of worrying about getting a good education for her kids in the UK, when she doesn’t think they could go to Uni.

Not a fan of the Chronicle but that article is really, really depressing. Aside from the worst parts, this bit stood out because I think it's a reflection of the CITME board- the posters who have been on there since October who are clever enough to know how not to be explicitly antisemitic but whose sum of all posting show them to be undoubtedly antisemitic are those who have identified in some way as having "no skin in the game".

Speaking on condition of anonymity, a Jewish student who was present told the JC: “The session had an incredibly hostile atmosphere, especially when delegates began to vilify the UJS. The proposal to disaffiliate from it was backed by a vast show of hands in support, which in a room of non-Jewish students felt isolating and wrong. Students with no skin in the game had decided that their place was to speak on matters impacting Jewish students.

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