Archie Battersebee case-thread 2

[whynotwhatknot]

ongoing from previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4573803-archie-battersbee-case?page=40

the majority of the comments on the Mirror page are in favour of turning off life support.

I feel desperately sorry for the family. It's very easy in such a state of distress to start being suspicious of medical staff and their motives and the typos in the hospital letter and lack of sense on some sentences are a really poor show at such a sensitive time.
We had a horrible time where I ended up going outside the hospital staff (CQC, MP) and not all staff are kind, well versed in compassionate communicate or willing to take time to explain things. We experienced staff actively avoiding us because they didn't want to be the ones to pass on higher up decisions. I'm well educated and work in a vaguely connected field so if I ended up suspicious, calling lawyers and double checking things I'm not in the least shocked by Hollie and Paul.
I don't like the social media element, I didn't try to gain online support at all and just privately battled but we were getting somewhere. If I'd come up against brick walls who knows, if I thought my child's life was at stake?

The Trust's Chief Medical Officer Alistair Chesser said: "We are giving Archie's loved ones time to come to terms with the decision of the courts that treatment should not continue and are involving them at each stage

. Any further delay in starting palliative care would not be appropriate without an order of the court."

International law expert Toby Cadman warns that ignoring the UN committee on such a delicate matter would ruin Britain’s reputation globally.

"Even if there is no binding authority to enforce a decision or an opinion, it reflects very badly on that state when it doesn't comply with those rulings," he told Sky News.

The difficulty is that the UN treaty body does not have any enforcement mechanism and it will issue a view or an opinion that it would expect the UK to comply with. But there is no binding nature of those opinions and already the UK does not have a particularly good track record in complying with decisions of the UN."

I picked this from SkyNews (most recent one I could find)
It is at oddds that they have issued a letter to Archies parents to inform them that withdrawel of life suppport is taking place on 1st August
Cannot see if the UN decision has been given ( the letter was given on 30th)

So the statement about further delay not being appropriate - does that mean unless there is a definate decision from the Court that it should not take place , they are going to proceede?
But even if the UN rules that withdrawel of life support should be postponed , then they can over-ride as there's no enforcement ?

Is this what Hollie is saying about the Hospital looking bad for murder (her word) of her child ?
She stated the transfer from Southend to Royal London was for surgery/procedure , but they waited (presume to assess and review)

Apart from disclosing the medics' names, which I found totally unacceptable, the bit that frustrated me was "throughout these three months, we have been rushed from one court hearing to another every few days, having to fight for Archie’s life against a generously funded army of lawyers and NHS managers"

Obviously no-one would grudge a mum fighting for a realistic chance for their son, but clearly there's never been one - and anyway the court actions (which they themselves have forced) aren't the only things on which they've opted to spend time which could have been used with Archie

It also seems a little ironic to comment on the "generous funding" for the NHS lawyers and managers, considering they too have been massively funded by the CLC - albeit in pursuit of an agenda

Such a sad situation all round. There are no winners. Why wont they listen to the medics.
its not like just one consultant has said he won't recover, they've had equally highly qualified people from other trusts who have also given the same opinion .
Then in come the social media medical experts telling them they are wrong.
The NHS doesn't have a finite amount of money to keep brain dead patients on a ventilator, poor Archie needs a peaceful dignified passing xx

This time tomorrow it will be all over

I guess the group will close and that will be that

There are still groups running for Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans where strangers who never met either child post about how much they miss them. It’s very odd.

in the charlie gard cae they also made a point of saying we're being forced to court all the time instead of spending it with our son-not seeing that they themselves were dragging it through the courts

i do hope the hopsital have reissued the letter though with the correct dates on them

The family have released a new statement on the DFA page.

Are they really surprised to be told the videos are completely inappropriate.

And do they expect palliative care to simply be allowing him to rot on life support until he rots a bit too much and his heart gives out?

Who has told them the videos are inappropriate?

Full statement from the family of Archie Battersbee:

This Saturday, the Chief Medical Officer of Barts Health NHS Trust, Alistair Chesser, was quoted in a number of media articles as saying: "We are giving Archie's loved ones time to come to terms with the decision of the courts that treatment should not continue and are involving them at each stage. Any further delay in starting palliative care would not be appropriate without an order of the court."

These assertions are misleading.

Firstly, “giving Archie's loved ones time to come to terms with the decision” is precisely what the Trust has refused to do. The Trust has been dragging us as a family through the courts at a breakneck speed from 27 April till the final decision of the Supreme Court this Thursday evening. The urgent application to the UN had to be prepared overnight by our legal team and submitted Friday morning. On the same day, despite the interim measures granted by the UN, the Trust unilaterally informed us that the withdrawal will take place at 2 pm on Monday and that was not negotiable.

Secondly, “involving” us at each stage has consisted of daily point-blank, non-negotiable orders. The Trust has never made any attempt to agree any sort of compromise with us on any matters great or small. For example this Friday, our lawyers received a letter from the Trust demanding that all videos of Archie and his medical equipment taken on the ward, which we believe is evidence of improvement in Archie’s condition (such as his attempts to breathe independently) are immediately deleted; and threatened legal proceedings for an alleged breach of data protection.

Thirdly, the Trust has no intention of “starting palliative care”. As the order of Mr Justice Hayden records, the Trust informed the Court that “the implementation of paragraph 3 of this recital and paragraph 2 of the declarations set out below will result in the child, Archie Battersbee’s death, within a short period of time thereafter”. There may be different descriptions for doing an act which is known and intended to result in the child’s immediate death. “Starting palliative care” is simply not one of them. Indeed, we believe this is an insult to all those who do the noble work of palliative care.

We as a family are very disappointed that the Trust’s management has chosen to hide behind euphemisms and to mislead the public. It is hard to see any reason for that behaviour except knowing that what they are doing is cruel and wrong.

news.sky.com/story/archie-battersbee-set-to-have-treatment-withdrawn-on-monday-after-life-support-battle-12662766

The UN 🙄

given they appear to have bugger all power to stop Russia doing what they like I can’t see that any heed should be taken to what they might have to say

What a lovely meme to share with your followers for the day your son is supposed to pass peacefully

I mean. What?!

Sums her up to a T tbh

I would be hoping most of them have work on a Monday at 2pm and can leave the hospital alone.

True but it doesn’t make her look good does it.

She’s supposed to be a mother grieving and fighting for her child. Instead she’s managed to turn it all about her

I think what Hollie fails to understand is that the sort of rhetoric that "plays well" to AA, has precisely the reverse impact on the general public.

As for the videos and photos, taking them as "evidence" is one thing. It's quite another to post them on social media along with an incorrect narrative about what they claim they feel such images support.

I've felt on more than one occasion Hollie has said very close to the wind re: liable towards the hospital and medical team looking after Archie and it's not a good look.

I'm very sorry she's in the situation she is, but grief is no excuse to try and sullly the reputations of the people who've done their utmost to look after her child and whom I am sure will find withdrawing care an emotional process themselves, without the added burden of the mother promising to be an asshole.

I would be hoping most of them have work on a Monday at 2pm and can leave the hospital alone

Judging by the posts that I've seen from the 'so called' Army, I doubt many of them have enough brain cells to hold down a job.

Why Hollie?

Bloody hell .

She so so going to regret all of this in time to come

Maybe she's pre-emptively calling her son's death 'murder' (ffs) by the hospital because that will be her inquest narrative (if she evens co-operates with it) because then she can 'fight' to reject the possibility of suicide, self-harm, her son's unhappiness, and any role she thinks she's perceived to have had in that.

So it's all 'online challenge' and 'murder'.

And meanwhile she being manipulated by a bunch of snake-oilers and sickos who will abandon her when the police start a proper investigation into what actually happened that day.

I agree

It’s disgusting

it’s not the NHS or the hospital’s fault this tragic situation had arisen. If they hadn’t done everything they could to try and help Archie he’d have died on 7 April when the sad incident occurred.

just why do people think that the NHS would want to kill Archie? Dedicated and skilled people who devote their professional lives to trying to save and preserve life.

Good god.

???

I’m a member of a fb page for April the giraffe. There are people who come on every day and say they miss her up in heaven. The internet is full of fucking weirdo’s.

I truly feel for Archie and his family. I also feel for the hospital staff caring for him. However, I fully support the withdrawal of his treatment.

I hope he will finally rest in peace.

Having seen her previous posts and social media activity, I can well believe this. Stuff like this is not going to garner sympathy from anyone. My sympathies lie with the other families on the ward, and the staff.

The only real saving grace is that her son is totally unaware of the circus she has created around him.

I don't know about inquests / Police investigations in incidents such as these. Maybe someone can answer a question - will the Police investigate? Will the Coroner investigate that deeply for an inquest (I.e. could they / would they just accept the "online challenge" narrative without looking further into the background to save the family grief)

How much investigations do the Police / Coroner really normally do in these circumstances (especially with a family who have already come to their own conclusions?)

I mean there is a school of thought that might consider what good will it bring to discover the "truth" (I.e suicide due to unhappiness) as opposed to the family's assertion of online challenge?