Assaults in Cologne and other European cities part VI

[HelpTheAnimalsFirst]

Thread 6.

Bzzzzzzzzzzz B-zzzzzzzzzz

i was only speculating about the process the petition has to go through. sorry!! I dont know what has to happen. I assumed someone somewhere had to look a it and make sure it was sensible?

Will

This is what it says on the website re the process.

petition.parliament.uk/help#standards

No Calm, you've ignored mine and the women raped every year in Germany.

Do you have statistics for every year at Oktoberfest and Carneval? The events have been going for some time. Are statistics enough to give the real picture of the true number of assaults at these festivals and the attacks in Cologne? Is it not likely that many more women were attacked at all these events but never went too the police? If the behaviour is similar at each if these events, is it not a disservice to the victims to say some do not deserve outrage or attention because the number wasn't high enough or no fingers entered them? You still haven't really clarified why they don't matter.

Polenta just out of interest, doesn't that piece refer to the grounds on which a petition might be rejected? To me that suggests it must therefore have been submitted in the first place ... correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure it means a petition has to be somehow approved beforepresentation, at least not by government?

Finally a reply from my European member of parliament

"I agree that women should not be afraid to go out and take part in major events and that anyone found to be harassing and assaulting women should feel the full force of the law. This matter will no doubt come up in discussion in our Parliament and that is the point I will make."

I wonder if Emily has emailed an objection and that's what is holding it up? She has said we are all just racist after all (including I assume David Cameron based on his comments this morning). Could that be a possibility?

I tweeted the House of commons. mobile.twitter.com/WoodFieldsRiver/status/689120435519250432

Not sure puzzled. If you look at other parts of the site you can see the information they want to submit a petition. My reading of it is that they would only reject it if it's against the guidelines stated. I don't see how it could be pre-approved, if I'm understanding you correctly

I'm sue all the MPs will be quaking in their boots re the prospect of a bit of finger wagging from our own dear Emily

I said before I would not engage again and I won't tempting though the flaws in your argument make it. You are no longer discussing, you are just attempting to wear everybody down

bzzzzzzz
bzzzzzzzz

              BZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Argumentum ad nauseam. Well-known logical fallacy.

Especially as she is not a UK Resident....

Fly in the ointment there. Bzzzz

Thanks for your work, ThePetition, it is much appreciated.

Just read a bit more of that link and I see what you mean, polenta - it seems they can refuse even to accept a petition for various (largely technical) reasons. My mistake

I'm sure a number of MPs will be only too happy to see people like you raising these 'concerns polenta, as it fits many of their policies.

I haven't emailed about the petition which you have the right to do, regardless of what I consider the dubious motives of some for raising it.

As for the evidence

It is very likely that many women at Oktoberfest and other festivals never went to police about public groping as it is often blamed on the women, therefore statistics don't represent the nature of what goes on there. In addition ,it has been said the actual number of rapes, in comparison to the recorded rapes is likelyto be higher, as women do not feel comfortable with reporting to police and the German system requires women to 'fight back' to get a conviction.

Numbers of reported rapes at Oktoberfest are on average 12 per year at a two week festival. The BBC reports on 5 Jan that, 'At least one woman was raped, and many were groped'. On Jan 12 it reports that, 'Several women in Cologne were raped.' 'Several' is an ambiguous figure. Does it mean seven? It is clear to me that the amount of recorded rapes rom the Cologne attacks are not clearly higher than those at Oktoberfest at all.

'Police in Cologne say 553 criminal complaints have been filed by women in Cologne, and 45% are for sexual assault', BBC Jan 12. On Jan 5 the BBC reports, 'One rape and a large amount of groping.' This is horrifying. However, if the women from Oktoberfest actually felt comortable in coming forward to report the groping they experienced, the numbers may be similarly high. Sadly, they have not feltcomfortable at all in reporting and have felt blamed and made to be responsiblefor their experiences.

Were women more comfortable in reporting the attacks in Cologne than those at Oktoberfest and why?

There is not strong evidence that the attacks in Cologne were on a bigger scale than previous ones. There is a strong possibilty that previous sexual assaults were not recorded within. There is also the fact that the categorisation of what constitutes sexual harrassment and assault is different in Germany than to the UK. If it takes the assaults of 'foreign' men rather than white European men, to encourage amendment to these laws, at least that is something.

Bzzzzzz

That Emily is a barrel of laughs.

Ever heard the expression flogging a dead horse?

Where is this petition? I want to get it signed.

Yes, Helpful she is hysterical!

'You are no longer discussing, you are just attempting to wear everybody down'

Calm - yes that's how it looks to me.

Have spoken to MNHQ about it and they say they are keeping an eye on things, and they acknowledge the 'persistent' nature of the postings and extreme differing opinion.

"I wonder if any Muslim women are reading this thread and what they think of the so called desperate need to address the problem of sexually dangerous Muslim men."

I'd imagine many would recognise and understand what people are describing here.

Emily, How do you account for my (and what i witnessed of other women) experiences of this open type of group assault and constant harrassement in Turkey and other countries in the region - compared to what i have experienced for all the years i've lived in the UK?

You insisting otherwise doesn't negate the experiences of women who have had to deal with the mysoginy and harrassement that can be common in the cultures being discussed. You are fooling no one.

I don't see why a handful of posters disagreeing wears you down when you mostly agree with you.

I think a balanced look at the facts and numbers is important to this discussion.

Hi everyone. I think someone suggested either a separate thread for when the petition gets the green light, or extending this one. Either is good for me - it would be good to exchange info about who we've managed to publicise the petition. Even a brief mention on radio would be a leg up.