Struggling with a friend's decision to pursue surrogacy overseas

[idontknowhowtodreamyourdreams]

I am feeling so angry and upset about a situation I have found myself in with a dear friend who I have known since we were at primary school (now 40s).

A caveat from me - have 3 dc of my own and don’t pretend to understand how it feels to v much want to be a parent and be unable to be one.

My friend (gay, male) asked me about 4 or 5 years ago if I would be a surrogate for him and his husband. For all kinds of reasons, it was a firm and immediate no from me. Tbh it was unexpected and I felt inwardly horrified. It would not have been right for me personally and I have a whole range of ethical issues re surrogacy in any event. No reservations about my friend’s ability to parent, he would be great.

My “no” really impacted our friendship. He was upset and hurt and I felt it has taken us a long time to recover the friendship. I explained why I said no at the time. He struggled to understand and still does, there has been a lot of anger on both our sides over this. He is in the midst of going through the process to be considered for adoption. I thought he was and his husband were committed to this - they would be great parents.

Seemingly out of nowhere he told me a few days ago about plans to go overseas and give surrogacy “a whirl”. Cyprus, I think, but also considering Albania.

I know they can do what they think is right for them. But I am so upset by this decision- to go overseas and pay someone desperate for the cash for a child, the power dynamics, the transactional nature. The whole “I am entitled to this” mindset.

It is not my business. But I don’t think I can get my head around it.

I just need somewhere to vent.

Fucking hell, so they literally wanted you to give them your baby. These men are frankly awful and should not be raising any child

Every painful experience is unique, but all have can points of similarity despite that, in terms of dealing with feelings of grief, loss, powerlessness, violation, and so on. This following quote does apply to many situations, in a broad sense, including childlessness:

"But I do know what it’s like to have to accept loss and grief in life and desperately want things to be otherwise; I just think life involves accepting that we can’t always have what we want."

Anyway, on topic, OP's 'friend' just sounds like a garden variety misogynist, who thinks he should be entitled to commodify women's bodies for his own purposes, and purchase human beings. Gross. The fact that he had the gall to be upset with her for refusing to be a human incubator and then give him her newborn baby is disgusting.

Yes. It's always wrong to buy human beings. HTH.

Leaving the surrogacy issue aside, I'm struggling to understand why your friendship survived his inability to understand why you turned down his offer! It's genuinely worrying that he doesn't see why that was a complete non starter for you.

To clarify the bringing back of the baby from the US: during court proceedings in the State into which the baby has been born, paternity is established, following which a birth certificate is issued which names the biological father. The biological father is then able to apply for a US passport for the child, the child obviously having been born on US soil.
In your case, I don’t know why you would have had so much difficulty obtaining passports for your own children, unless you were applying directly for British passports, which I believe to be a more complex procedure when done in the US.

Said this before.

Stop weaponising homosexuality.

Start centring children. This is commodifying children and absolutely is immoral regardless of fertility issues or sexuality.

Sometimes life is shit. Sometimes you get deal a dreadful hand. You still shouldn't treat other humans as there merely to satisfy your own desires. Not needs.

Agree. Sometimes we have to accept that we cant always get what we want. My DH has a lot of older customers and over the years many many of them didn't have children. I do think there was much more acceptance of this in the past, as in 'it wasn't meant to be'. These days medical science has made more things possible and some people seem to have a greater sense of entitlement because of it.

OP in your position I'd struggle to continue this friendship. He sounds like a typical entitled man.

Once again, yes I would.

I have been unable to have children due to my husband being infertile. We were turned down to adopt because of my chronic migraine.

Surrogacy is child trafficking and should be illegal. It is the privilege of money that allows people to pay to exploit a woman's body. In other types of exploitation we call it prostitution.

I couldn't have children. I don't think that gives me the right to exploit another woman's body to get a baby. Like others have said, you don't always get what you want in life.

I didn't have "difficulty". But in the uk when you register your baby you have to have an in-person interview where you confirm details like who you are, where you live, where the baby was born and when, and your relation to the baby and to the other parent. If you're the father, you can't do it without the mother there unless you're married to her (and have to prove that by taking your marriage certificate). If you're an unmarried father, the mother has to go and name the father.

This is a good thing. It is not a "difficulty", it's a safeguarding measure.

It sounds like (from your description) that in the US, it's astonishingly trivial to register a baby that you didn't give birth to. I can think of multiple reasons why this could be misused to the detriment of babies.

I agree. "If you're really really desperate for something, you can harm a woman to get that thing, or emotionally coerce her to give it to you" - what does that sound like?

@Kingdomofsleep
I have outlined a court procedure which summarises how paternity is established, at which the birth mother is also present. And yes, from this, the biological parent can apply for a US passport. Can you tell me what part of it you found astonishingly trivial? It sounds a bit more complex than having to attend an interview, from what you have described.

That's good that the mother has to be there, I wasn't clear on that point. I suppose where it is different in the uk is the concept of "the biological parent" has no legal significance for the registration of the baby.

It is only the birth mother and either her husband or a man she names as the father, that can go on the birth certificate.

It’s what I would have said to myself if I hadn’t been able to have children. Happily for me I was but if not…… I’d have investigated fostering, adoption or something else entirely to fill the space in my life ( eg some of the many things I haven’t been able to do because I have had children)
There is a long list of things I would desperately love to have in my life but I accept that I can’t. Not everyone can have kids which is really sad but as I said above que sera sera.
Surrogacy is imo wrong. Wombs shouldn’t be rentable spaces. Children shouldn’t be available for sale or profit or “reasonable expenses”

I'm not a huge surrogacy advocate but I think it's easy to talk the talk when you're not in that situation and never will be.

True. But it’s still a fact that had I not been able to have children I would never have opted for IVF or surrogacy.

But buying a baby can never be the answer

This is utterly nauseating.

I very much agree with this.

The fact that my friend is gay is irrelevant to me. If I were in this situation with a straight female friend, I would feel the same.

Not really. Somethings are just abhorrent no matter whether it's personal or not

A bit of an update. I had a talk with my friend over the weekend. I knew it was going to be a shitty conversation and it was but I am glad I did it tbh. All very calm and I just approached it from a “I thought you were committed to adoption, so I am confused as to why surrogacy has come up again” angle. Anyway. They have chosen a clinic but not started treatment yet.

I said I thought they needed to tell the adoption agency, firstly. He agreed they would when they knew when they would start. I asked about the research they had done, explained some of the ethical and legal issues, he said they were still looking into things.

I want to keep lines of communication open with him, but I am baffled and sad.

Don't bother the people on here don't care for common sense I said the same yesterday it's easy to have a hate boner for surrogacy when you don't need one but it's a different story when it's your only option and people saying to adopt? It's not like getting a puppy it takes years to even get approval in some cases and even then that's not a guarantee you'll get a child just means you can

I'd have told you to mind your own business.

If it bothers OP that much she could always contact the surrogate and offer to match what her friend is paying so she doesn't have to go through with it. Might take her five years to earn the same amount working in a sweatshop.

Virtue signalling on the internet is easy when there's no personal cost and you already have three kids of your own. It's like somebody with a £5m inheritance proclaiming they'd never work on an exploitative zero hours contract.

Do you think the Magdalene laundries and the way babies were taken from their birth mums was okay simply to provide a child for someone who was desperate for a child. Have you seen how the children and birth mothers have been impacted by those practices? But is that okay because someone who wanted a child was more important and who cares about the best interests of a child?

Nowadays, and rightly so, adoption centres around what is in the best interests of the child, to provide a safe and loving environment for that child. Its main purpose is not to provide a child for someone with fertility issues. The child comes first. If it would be better for the child to stay with birth mother or other blood relatives then that is where they will stay regardless of whether there is another person desperate for a child.