Struggling with a friend's decision to pursue surrogacy overseas

[idontknowhowtodreamyourdreams]

I am feeling so angry and upset about a situation I have found myself in with a dear friend who I have known since we were at primary school (now 40s).

A caveat from me - have 3 dc of my own and don’t pretend to understand how it feels to v much want to be a parent and be unable to be one.

My friend (gay, male) asked me about 4 or 5 years ago if I would be a surrogate for him and his husband. For all kinds of reasons, it was a firm and immediate no from me. Tbh it was unexpected and I felt inwardly horrified. It would not have been right for me personally and I have a whole range of ethical issues re surrogacy in any event. No reservations about my friend’s ability to parent, he would be great.

My “no” really impacted our friendship. He was upset and hurt and I felt it has taken us a long time to recover the friendship. I explained why I said no at the time. He struggled to understand and still does, there has been a lot of anger on both our sides over this. He is in the midst of going through the process to be considered for adoption. I thought he was and his husband were committed to this - they would be great parents.

Seemingly out of nowhere he told me a few days ago about plans to go overseas and give surrogacy “a whirl”. Cyprus, I think, but also considering Albania.

I know they can do what they think is right for them. But I am so upset by this decision- to go overseas and pay someone desperate for the cash for a child, the power dynamics, the transactional nature. The whole “I am entitled to this” mindset.

It is not my business. But I don’t think I can get my head around it.

I just need somewhere to vent.

It doesn't matter what stage he is at with the surrogacy agency. He's already taken steps to try to procure a surrogate - you. That has happened.

@Kingdomofsleep that was a few years ago and pre-dates his decision to begin the adoption process. When I said no, the dust settled for a bit and they decided to pursue adoption. Surrogacy has just reappeared.

Let his exploration with the adoption agency run its course. Presumably things haven’t gone too far in either direction.Surrogacy and adoption are completely different things and surely, taking into account the legality of it, he has a right to weigh up in his own mind which way he wants to go.

Lesbians, women, straight couples qualify for IVF because there is a medical issue which means the woman can't get pregnant.

Men can't have IVF.

The men in this article consider they have an infertility problem and so should be funded to acquire a baby. That's not the same as being funded for IVF, which is what the health insurance covers.

If one of the lesbians, straight couples, single women wanted to use a surrogate, that wouldn't be covered either.

The article shows how entitled these guys feel to have children. They even reject adoption as "volunteering". They want babies and they want them funded, with no consideration of the impact on the egg provider, the surrogate, the child.

I am sure some men make great parents but it is a huge experiment. Never before in human history have men done the care giving of young children unless a catastrophe happened and the mother was not available - this was considered a huge loss and not something easily overcome. And even then, there would be other women around. Men and babies is not straightforward and we shouldn't pretend it is.

How far do you let it run its course? Up to the point of being approved, having a child identified and then having to stop the process as they end up with a baby with the surrogate. Obviously, you are not thinking about a child here

They can't physically have babies because they are male. That's like me wanting wings on the NHS because I can't fly like my neighbours' budgie. I can't fly because I'm human, they can't grow babies because they're male.

Fertility treatment is healthcare to correct a faulty bit of the body, like cataract surgery or knee replacements. There is nothing in two gay men that needs a fix.

Yes, it's sad when people who want to become parents can't. It's sad wh n people have disabilities and life limiting conditions and when children are brought up in abject poverty. Lots of things are sad or unfair.

Wealthy gay men purchasing the use of a woman in poverty's body is not a reasonable solution. It's exploitative and it's trafficking in babies.

Adopt if they want to and can. Otherwise accept that not everyone gets to be a parent. It's not a right.

I think the friendship is over. I think they have not even considered the women and children here.
Surrogacy is illegal in many countries. People shouldn't be bought or sold.
Being childless when you want to be a parent is such a difficult thing to come to terms with, but you can't just rent a womb and buy a baby. Not ethically or morally and I can't even fathom how they would even have the nerve to ask, let alone be angry at your refusal to just have a baby for them and hand it over.

I agree. I'm surprised you're still friends.

These men don’t have fertility issues. They have patriarchal misogyny issues.

how many times have you been a surrogate? Perhaps the OP can put you in touch with them.

Men can't get pregnant. This fact of nature is not "a fertility issue".

No woman, ever, for any reason, should have to get pregnant and give birth just to give up her baby. In my opinion that is the worst wrong you can do to a woman, taking away her baby.

Surrogacy will one day be a historical scandal akin to removing babies from their mothers in the magdalene laundries.

How far do you let it run its course?
How far is it up to anyone else to poke their nose into this person’s business? I’m willing to bet that not even the OP knows the contents of his mind. Nobody does. Leave him to it. He’s not breaking the law or even contemplating doing so.

Everyone should poke their nose in where child safeguarding is concerned.

Just because there’s no immediate unlawful action, doesn’t make it right.

thats a pretty low bar to live by.

But there isn’t a safeguarding issue. He’s only contemplating surrogacy, not going ahead with it. So no case to answer, to the morality police or anyone else.

Oh wait, edit:
He is only contemplating surrogacy, so no case to answer, except to the morality police. But nobody else.

I suppose the issue is more about misleading the adoption agency.

I see that, but I’m sure that people in different situations do – knowingly or otherwise – do mislead adoption agencies. However, adoption agencies are very thorough as to potential adoptive parents’ motives and I do think that this is one for them, not for anyone else to go wading into.

But they shouldn't even be contemplating it, if they have started adoption process. The guidelines are very clear

Yes, I personally wouldn't inform the agency- all they have to dobis say they were thinking about it but have put that idea to bed - but i think what they are doing is pretty poor. And, as an adopter, it tells me that they see adoption as a viable option to get a child, rather than putting the child first.

How is telling them not making it 'one for them'? It just gives them the full facts - they can then assess the relevance or otherwise of what OP tells them.

Because it is up to the prospective adoptive (or prospective IPs if they ultimately decide this is what they will be) to do this when they have made up their minds.

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16026479/Alaska-nurse-surrogate-lawsuit-McKenna-West-abortion.html

Really awful story surrogate story today.

@RedToothBrush bloody hell, this is just heartbreaking.

Please let the adoption agency know. It is very important that prospective adopters have let go of the idea of a biological child. Prospective adopters are often asked by their agencies to use contraceptives. Adoption is not the same as having a birth child and prospective adopters need to be fully on board with that.

It is also important to keep in mind that agencies have limited resources. While they are assessing him, they might decline another interested prospective adopter who is fully committed. So this might mean that a child/children have to wait longer or are not placed with loving adopters at all. This has consequences for children in care.

“And yes, of course I do know I am very privileged to have had 3 kids. I don’t know what it’s like to desperately want that and be unable to have it. But I do know what it’s like to have to accept loss and grief in life and desperately want things to be otherwise; I just think life involves accepting that we can’t always have what we want.”

Im not siding with your friend and am anti surrogacy but as a woman who is childless not by choice, your flippancy enrages me. It’s a very unique situation and unless you’re in it, you do not understand. I too have suffered great loss but this is a different singular pain. You have no point of reference so don’t try as it’s frankly insulting.