Struggling with a friend's decision to pursue surrogacy overseas

[idontknowhowtodreamyourdreams]

I am feeling so angry and upset about a situation I have found myself in with a dear friend who I have known since we were at primary school (now 40s).

A caveat from me - have 3 dc of my own and don’t pretend to understand how it feels to v much want to be a parent and be unable to be one.

My friend (gay, male) asked me about 4 or 5 years ago if I would be a surrogate for him and his husband. For all kinds of reasons, it was a firm and immediate no from me. Tbh it was unexpected and I felt inwardly horrified. It would not have been right for me personally and I have a whole range of ethical issues re surrogacy in any event. No reservations about my friend’s ability to parent, he would be great.

My “no” really impacted our friendship. He was upset and hurt and I felt it has taken us a long time to recover the friendship. I explained why I said no at the time. He struggled to understand and still does, there has been a lot of anger on both our sides over this. He is in the midst of going through the process to be considered for adoption. I thought he was and his husband were committed to this - they would be great parents.

Seemingly out of nowhere he told me a few days ago about plans to go overseas and give surrogacy “a whirl”. Cyprus, I think, but also considering Albania.

I know they can do what they think is right for them. But I am so upset by this decision- to go overseas and pay someone desperate for the cash for a child, the power dynamics, the transactional nature. The whole “I am entitled to this” mindset.

It is not my business. But I don’t think I can get my head around it.

I just need somewhere to vent.

Were the women in the Magdalene laundries doing it by choice for thousands of pounds? Granted these things don't happen in a vacuum but it's a disingenuous comparison.

Economic inequality is often the root cause and I don't see any of the people condemning it actually doing anything to address the issue. Some of the surrogates are likely using the money to provide a better life for their own children so it's problematic to say they can't do that without offering an alternative.

This talk of 'your only option'. The other option is you don't get to have kids, like many things in life that you can't have just because you want them or have the money to buy them. You sound like a character in a cheesy murder TV series who had 'no choice' but to murder someone.

What about the child? Do you think a child would be happy that it was bought for thousands of pounds?

I am not saying he should have done so, but in the fairly recent past, even once laws changed, many gay men chose to live an outwardly straight life and marry etc because they recognised that there were social and familial advantages to doing so, including the ability to easily have children. This was wrong for women and children in other ways, but was it better or worse than the present-day commodification of pregnancy and childbirth?

To be honest, I wonder if he was ‘grooming’ you all along with his purpose in mind? How did he react when you had your children? Was there ever a joke about this topic or some other kind of ‘tell’?

It's probs going to have a far better quality of life growing up in a 1st world country with wealthy parents. Not that I'm particularly in favour of it but it's easy for people with kids to say that others should go without. It's a bit like wealthy middle class people saying they'd never turn to crime when they didn't grow up in an environment where all the young guys with money were drug dealers.

So would I 😂 it's not really her business she said no good now leave them alone ❤️

After 3 pregnancies to ask someone to go through it again is selfish!

Well done for having the conversation with him. I think for women who understand the importance of the bond between mother and child, and the obvious exploitation involved in surrogacy, it's hard to understand why anyone would think it's a good idea to pursue it.

Your gay friend, however, will be in circles in which being gay is seen as a "fertility issue" rather than just practical reality, and in which surrogacy is just a sensible solution to let the men get what they want. It's difficult to get a man to see something as wrong if it's seen as normal by their friends. I mean, Tom Daley is seen as lovely but he did it too.

I think it's good if you can keep communication open with your friend as he probably isn't getting any pushback from anyone else at all.

@wherearemypeople yeah, I think I just want to keep those lines open and for him to be open to listening to alternative views. Honestly, it is so sad and rage inducing.

I just found out that Perez Hilton has three children by surrogacy. Leaving aside the most recent bout of self-harming, he was always the most repugnantly homophobic (yes, I know he's gay) misogynistic individual who was clearly unbalanced. I just cannot fathom how it is allowed that someone like him is allowed to buy as many babies as he likes. If nothing else demonstrates that surrogacy is a commercial concern that has long, long since shifted away from what is in the best interests of the child, this surely does.

Hmm. Well, he did start the whole thing by asking me to be his surrogate. So yeah, it’s my business. He is also godfather to my DC, so how he conducts himself is my business.

I believe gay people can make just as good (or bad) parents as anyone else. I know several gay parents. I also have relatively close experience of adoption.

I'm concerned that your friend is part way into the adoption process and doesn't understand trauma.

Every single adopted child will be suffering trauma to a greater or lesser degree. One of the traumas is the loss of their primary attachment figure, their birth mother. Adoption seeks to make the best outcome of terrible situations. Adopted children ideally undergo family therapy, get preferential school places and have support to understand their life story as they grow up.

Surrogacy essentially commissions that trauma to happen to a child that doesn't yet exist and only comes into existence because adults plan to cause that traumatic loss. To compound that, the surrogate child doesn't get the therapy, special understanding at school or even an honest life story. What is told of their life story will be in euphemism and their traumatic loss will not be acknowledged.

I absolutely agree @InconvenientlyMaterial . surrogacy is a decision to cause attachment trauma; one that is made purely in the interests of the surrogate parents.